Question Apple Vision Pro announced - $3499!

[quikah]

I'd really like to see Meta rethink its approach after this. It currently reats the Quest headsets as vehicles for the metaverse... which only really appeals to someone who read Snow Crash one too many times. Ideally, it'd focus more on a headset that's useful for everyday tasks and just happens to tap into the metaverse.

I would argue that a full VR headset would never be useful for everyday tasks. VR is the wrong approach. AR glasses could be useful for everyday tasks (light glasses, ala google glass). VR is too isolating and restrictive. Apple's approach of shoe horning a bunch of cameras to add pass through to the VR headset just doesn't improve anything IMO.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I would argue that a full VR headset would never be useful for everyday tasks. VR is the wrong approach. AR glasses could be useful for everyday tasks (light glasses, ala google glass). VR is too isolating and restrictive. Apple's approach of shoe horning a bunch of cameras to add pass through to the VR headset just doesn't improve anything IMO.

Have you seen how bad AR glasses are? Usually very low resolution, and translucent. Google Glass is only in one eye. You wouldn't want to read more than a sentence using these systems.

Apples alternative with a bunch of cameras provides a MASSIVE leap in image quality.

 

[WelshBloke]

Have you seen how bad AR glasses are? Usually very low resolution, and translucent. Google Glass is only in one eye...

Apples alternative with a bunch of cameras provides a MASSIVE leap in image quality.

I guess that the advantage of a Google glass type thing is that you can wear it out and about. I can see the use in a general HUD. Navigating a new city on foot for example.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I guess that the advantage of a Google glass type thing is that you can wear it out and about. I can see the use in a general HUD. Navigating a new city on foot for example.

That was the theory, but they were so unpopular and generated so much animosity that Google canceled the consumer product (you can still get them in the industrial setting).

In industrial settings, I think Vision Pro has a strong chance of killing Google Glass (and other similar AR glasses). You go from being able to read a sentence with Google Glass, to being able to read a full page of a manual with high res diagrams.

Reports are that Vision Pro delivers on the dream of having multiple big virtual computer monitors.

 

[WelshBloke]

That was the theory, but they were so unpopular and generated so much animosity that Google canceled the consumer product (you can still get them in the industrial setting).

I think that people are more accepting of that sort of thing now. Google was just a bit ahead of the time then.

In industrial settings, I think Vision Pro has a strong chance of killing Google Glass (and other similar AR glasses). You go from being able to read a sentence with Google Glass, to being able to read a full page of a manual with high res diagrams.

Reports are that Vision Pro delivers on the dream of having multiple big virtual computer monitors.

I think that Google glass type things are a different product category to Vision pro. They don't really compete at all.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I think that people are more accepting of that sort of thing now. Google was just a bit ahead of the time then.

I think that Google glass type things are a different product category to Vision pro. They don't really compete at all.

Outside of wearing it out in public, I don't see what Glass can do that VP can't do with MUCH greater fidelity.

I'm betting there will be MANY industrial users that will be interested in VP.

 

[Oyeve]

I'm waiting for "ready player one" quality.

 

[WelshBloke]

Outside of wearing it out in public, I don't see what Glass can do that VP can't do with MUCH greater fidelity.

I'm betting there will be MANY industrial users that will be interested in VP.

Well the wearing it in public is a fairly big deal! You could walk around a city and get information about land marks or directions and reviews of restaurants.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Well the wearing it in public is a fairly big deal! You could walk around a city and get information about land marks or directions and reviews of restaurants.

That really isn't the industrial use case though. And you can do all that with your smart phone, which is what everyone does.

 

[quikah]

Have you seen how bad AR glasses are? Usually very low resolution, and translucent. Google Glass is only in one eye. You wouldn't want to read more than a sentence using these systems.

Apples alternative with a bunch of cameras provides a MASSIVE leap in image quality.

The image quality isn't really the issue. The use case is. VR is extremely isolating. It is cumbersome to use. It is fatiguing. Nothing that Apple showed fixes any of these issues. Taken at face value, the use proposition that apple has shown doesn't even make any sense. They imply that you will practically live in these things, but the battery life is only 2 hours.

 

[WelshBloke]

That really isn't the industrial use case though. And you can do all that with your smart phone, which is what everyone does.

I mean you can watch TV and videos of your kids on your phone as well. Apples point would be that there are better ways to do that and I'd say the same of a HUD as you walk around.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I mean you can watch TV and videos of your kids on your phone as well. Apples point would be that there are better ways to do that and I'd say the same of a HUD as you walk around.

So you see Google Glass making a comeback?

 

[WelshBloke]

So you see Google Glass making a comeback?

I can see a market for Google glass type product certainly. Imagine going abroad and every written language is translated and overlayed on the original text!
I mean I'm probably not the ideal audience for any of these products, I don't even like wearing ear buds in public because I can't hear what's going on around me!

 

[Heartbreaker]

I can see a market for Google glass type product certainly. Imagine going abroad and every written language is translated and overlayed on the original text!
I mean I'm probably not the ideal audience for any of these products, I don't even like wearing ear buds in public because I can't hear what's going on around me!

I'm not sure people in public would be much less hostile today toward Glass wearers. It's the basic rudeness of aiming a camera at peoples faces when talking to them.

 

[Red Storm]

Super excited for VisionPro and VisionOS. Instead of trying to be yet another VR gaming headset, this thing is aiming to be a general computer in AR. Sounds simple but that is absolutely huge. The eye control is amazing, it puts itself in another class of device compared to every other headset out there just from the eye/hand control. This thing will become my main computer.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Super excited for VisionPro and VisionOS. Instead of trying to be yet another VR gaming headset, this thing is aiming to be a general computer in AR. Sounds simple but that is absolutely huge. The eye control is amazing, it puts itself in another class of device compared to every other headset out there just from the eye/hand control. This thing will become my main computer.

A big thing with this one, is that from the hands-on reports it really sounds like what they demoed, is what you get:

Hands-on with Apple Vision Pro: This is not a VR headset

This was the best headset demo I’ve ever seen. But there’s room for improvement.

arstechnica.com

When you actually put on the headset, though, you'll often find that the promotional video was pure aspiration and reality still has some catching up to do. That was my experience with HoloLens, and it has been that way with consumer AR devices like Nreal, too.

That was not my experience with Vision Pro. To be clear, it wasn’t perfect. But it’s the first time I’ve tried an AR demo and thought, “Yep, what they showed in the promo video was pretty much how it really works.”

 

[Red Storm]

Watching the WWDC23 videos on Apple's site shows some amazing stuff. They show off what it's like to zoom in on a photo. You use your hands to make the zoom gesture, but how does it know where to zoom in to specifically? It knows where exactly you are looking and zooms into that spot. There's no buttons to press, it already knows where you want to apply that action. This thing has the simplest and yet most advanced interface control I've ever seen.

Imagine when Apple finally gets around to building an AI assistant. You could just look at a little icon in the corner of your view and start talking to your AI assistant to have it start doing whatever you need, meanwhile you're already focused back on whatever you were doing. The simplicity of that level of control and how seamless it will feel is the stuff of the future.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

The image quality isn't really the issue. The use case is. VR is extremely isolating. It is cumbersome to use. It is fatiguing. Nothing that Apple showed fixes any of these issues. Taken at face value, the use proposition that apple has shown doesn't even make any sense. They imply that you will practically live in these things, but the battery life is only 2 hours.

- Yep. AR/VR, outside of specific commercial applications, is a classic solution in search of a problem.

Its somewhat telling that Apple's devs, some of the best in the world, could come up with for the product was "Use your computer and watch TV... but virtually" and then tossed it out to external devs to hope and pray they come up with a better use case.

 

[Red Storm]

- Yep. AR/VR, outside of specific commercial applications, is a classic solution in search of a problem.

Its somewhat telling that Apple's devs, some of the best in the world, could come up with for the product was "Use your computer and watch TV... but virtually" and then tossed it out to external devs to hope and pray they come up with a better use case.

"Use your computer" is a pretty damn big use case. I use my computer to browse the web, order stuff online, chat with people, video conference, play games, watch video and photos, do work, read books, learn new things, etc. That is the use case, it's a computer that runs in AR. People who keep asking about a single killer app or use are thinking of this thing as if it's a VR gaming headset. It's a general personal computer that is used in AR, an entirely different class of product than a VR gaming headset. Even at $3500 it well sell.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

"Use your computer" is a pretty damn big use case. People who keep asking about a single killer app or use are thinking of this thing as if it's a VR gaming headset. It's a general personal computer that is used in AR. Even at $3500 it well sell.

-But I can already use my computer and paid an ophthalmologist $5000 to do it without a bunch of crap strapped to my face...

 

[Red Storm]

-But I can already use my computer and paid an ophthalmologist $5000 to do it without a bunch of crap strapped to my face...

But you can't have your multi display setup be in the living room, then decide to go lay down and still have access to it and be able to use it. You can't easily travel with a multi display setup. If you don't want to see the very obvious enhancements and convenience and privacy features this brings to personal computing that's fine.

 

[Heartbreaker]

- Yep. AR/VR, outside of specific commercial applications, is a classic solution in search of a problem.

Its somewhat telling that Apple's devs, some of the best in the world, could come up with for the product was "Use your computer and watch TV... but virtually" and then tossed it out to external devs to hope and pray they come up with a better use case.

I think this is much like dumping on the iPhone, iPad, Watch releases.

The display setup is not as limited as multiple monitors. You are just freed from the constraints of monitors. You can take your application Windows and spread them around the room organized how you like.

The people that saw the demos, had their minds blown.

Two of them were Basketball fans, and both said they would probably get it just for that experience. This was not a conventional TV. They shot this with 3d cameras, and one guy said it was like sitting courtside, with the players in actual scale, the a 6'5" player looking 6'5" standing right in front of him.

It's too expensive to sell in big numbers like iPhones, but its still going to change the headset market.

 

[Red Storm]

It's too expensive to sell in big numbers like iPhones, but its still going to change the headset market.

It's going to change the entire personal computing market. Not all at once, they'll need more affordable revisions in the future, but this is the future of computing without a doubt. Specifically, apps running in AR spaces and controlling the system via precise eye tracking and hand gestures.

 

[Oyeve]

It's going to change the entire personal computing market. Not all at once, they'll need more affordable revisions in the future, but this is the future of computing without a doubt. Specifically, apps running in AR spaces and controlling the system via precise eye tracking and hand gestures.

I see "Minority Report" in the near future.

 

[Heartbreaker]

It's going to change the entire personal computing market. Not all at once, they'll need more affordable revisions in the future, but this is the future of computing without a doubt. Specifically, apps running in AR spaces and controlling the system via precise eye tracking and hand gestures.

I think it will be kind of amazing for using in short bursts. You can have as many screens around you as you want , sized and organized exactly as you want them. It will kind of suck reverting to your regular desktop with limited fixed monitors.

But for a workday, I think eye/head comfort will be a stumbling block for many/most people.

Your eyes will be permanently focused on one focal plane which will be tiring for your eyes, and after a while the pressure/weight on your head will take a toll. I know it will get lighter and more comfortable over time, but there will always be some discomfort.

While there is some work on variable focal distance displays for headsets, that seems like a LONG ways into the future. It will have to succeed with fixed focal distance displays before these are practical.