Apple is now bigger than Microsoft

[Wreckem]

Yeah, I was talking about the mobile version (and edited my post before you posted yours). It's not got very much planned support. However, like I said, that gives it room for growth.

Truthfully though, I expect the real fight to be RIM vs. Apple vs. Android for smartphones. If Windows 7 gets a significant share of that, I'll be impressed.

RIM is at significant risk of losing a lot of market share though.

Symbian and MS are. RIM is not. RIM owns the enterprise market and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. iPhone OS and Android just aren't as enterprise ready as Blackberry. The enterprise market doesn't need feature xyz that a consumer wants and thats why RIM still maintains a larger market share than Apple after 3 years.

 

[dougp]

I would trade my ipod touch for a zune hd

I'd trade my iPhone 3GS for a high end Android or WinMo7 device in a heartbeat.

 

[nageov3t]

I'd trade my iPhone 3GS for a high end Android or WinMo7 device in a heartbeat.

no joke, I can't fricken wait for my EVO next week.

 

[rh71]

their rep is also better:

 

[Wreckem]

I will say Ballmer is shooting himself in the foot and MS needs a new CEO.

MS isn't innovating these days. The nixed Courier because Ballmer allegedly believed there wasn't a market. MS should have nixed the Kin.

 

[Fenixgoon]

market capitalization != bigger company.

for one, compare the number of employees

MS: 93,000+
Apple: 34,000+

 

[ShawnD1]

their rep is also better:

This graph is totally broken. How is Sony #2? Their piece of shit devices come with power cords that fall out. I had a stereo that would just randomly die because the cord would fall out. Parents, same thing. PS1 had this problem as well. Fuck Sony.

 

[LegendKiller]

The reason MS spits out dividends is because their growth slowed so much they were forced to. It's not because they're just generous execs.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here anyway. It's not as if I'm trying to say you should buy AAPL today and not MSFT. In fact, I sold AAPL a long time ago because I though it was overvalued... long before AAPL even hit $200. However, in retrospect, I obviously sold this growth stock too early.

Where did I say they were giving the money back because they were "generous execs"? Please don't put words in my mouth.

"generous execs" have nothing to do with the div, in fact, it is the exec's fiduciary duty to release the cash.

A company is supposed to dividend when it does not have any projects for retained capital/cash that exceed the WACC of the company. If no projects exceed the hurdle rate, the cash is given back.

Slowing growth is a symptom of having no positive EVA projects, not the other way around. MSFT's current position is reflected by the P/E and Beta of the stock relative to AAPL. MSFT P/E is ~13, AAPL is ~21. Beta is .93 for MSFT, 1.5 for AAPL. This means that not only is AAPL riskier (beta can be used as a proxy), but it also has a far higher multiple (as most growth do compared to value) and reacts more to changing revenue projections.

At my prior job MSFT's treasurer visited my company to discuss how he invested a $60bn+ liquidity portfolio prior to the $32bn dividend, it was a pretty interesting discussion. At that point MSFT was almost more of a money manager than an actual software company.

Maybe AAPL is overvalued at 250. It wouldn't be the first time a stock kept going up despite unreasonable growth prospects.

However, it is safe to say MSFT's value is rather stable. Which company is preferable?

 

[thescreensavers]

 

[Eug]

However, it is safe to say MSFT's value is rather stable. Which company is preferable?

Depends on your investment goals and preferences, but of course, many would suggest both, for a more diversified approach.

 

[Eug]

This graph is totally broken. How is Sony #2? Their piece of shit devices come with power cords that fall out. I had a stereo that would just randomly die because the cord would fall out. Parents, same thing. PS1 had this problem as well. Fuck Sony.

Reputation may not always be justified.

A lot of people still love Sony, despite their issues. Apple's high up on the list, but problems with iMacs, iBooks, and MacBooks are quite common in my household, and my iPhone is cracked. Ikea is in the top ten, but personally I think the quality of their furniture is relatively low (although price does reflect that). Etc.

----

So, at the close, AAPL was $222 billion and MSFT was at $219 billion. It will be interesting to see where the stocks will go from here.

P.S. I lie when I say I don't own AAPL. I do have a very small amount as a part of my VTI ETF. Ironically, despite some of the fanboy comments, I actually had more MSFT than AAPL. However, I wonder if after the stock price moves I now have more $ in AAPL than MSFT, since the last holdings update was April 30.

 

[zerocool84]

That's good for Android, I suppose, but I fail to see how it would hurt Apple seeing how Apple is doing fantastic with only 15% of the market. Not to mention you're making a lot of assumptions.

The ironing is delicious. You're the one making assumptions saying that Android being so huge doesn't hurt Apple one bit. It's dumb to think that Android hasn't gotten ONE, not even ONE person away from iPhone.

 

[dwell]

The ironing is delicious. You're the one making assumptions saying that Android being so huge doesn't hurt Apple one bit. It's dumb to think that Android hasn't gotten ONE, not even ONE person away from iPhone.

Well already had this discussion in the devices forum.

 

[zerocool84]

Well already had this discussion in the devices forum.

And you brought it up here again not me. You say iPhone had a record quarter and so did Android so what? They both had record quarters. It's just funny that you are so threatened by Android that you can't help but talk about it.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Windows 7 Mobile isn't doing too well

Not really surprising considering it isn't out yet.

 

[ultimatebob]

This graph is totally broken. How is Sony #2? Their piece of shit devices come with power cords that fall out. I had a stereo that would just randomly die because the cord would fall out. Parents, same thing. PS1 had this problem as well. Fuck Sony.

Yeah... it's amazing, isn't it? They put rootkits on their CD's, put obnoxious DRM in many their movies, and strip features from their products when they send out firmware updates... and Sony is still rated #2 in global reputation.

Oh well. Perception (no matter how misguided) is reality, I guess.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yeah... it's amazing, isn't it? They put rootkits on their CD's, put obnoxious DRM in many their movies, and strip features from their products when they send out firmware updates... and Sony is still rated #2 in global reputation.

Oh well. Perception (no matter how misguided) is reality, I guess.

It's amazing to me that a company whos motto once was "think different" operates a completely closed hardware and software platform and makes people choose what software they can run and use on the iPhone and iPad. On top of that they do not make swappable batteries or SD expansion.

Yet, somehow, they are seen as offering more features in a market that existed for years before they entered them.

One often wonders if Jobs conveniently forgot his motto, or the old commercial, or is merely a profit seeking hypocrite. Either way, his zealous acolytes completely ignore reality.

 

[LegendKiller]

Depends on your investment goals and preferences, but of course, many would suggest both, for a more diversified approach.

Sure, if you are comfortable with the P/E and volatility.

However, for the purposes of this thread, the OP is worthless and the comparison is moot.

 

[nerp]

Microsoft is a much bigger company in every respect.

 

[Patranus]

Movin' on up!

 

[Zebo]

Apple won't be for long. They are doing the same shit they did with apples OS and the Macintosh with their iphone. That caused a more open source alternative like Microsoft to conquer the PC market likewise Android will. Their PC and consumer products are uncompetitive. Short this big time IMO.

 

[dwell]

Apple won't be for long. They are doing the same shit they did with apples OS and the Macintosh with their iphone. That caused a more open source alternative like Microsoft to conquer the PC market likewise Android will. Their PC and consumer products are uncompetitive. Short this big time IMO.

People said the same thing in 1998 about how Linux was going to kill Windows.

 

[QueBert]

Zune >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iPod
Only thing touch has going for it is the app store.

And WAY better smart playlists
WAY more and WAY better accessories
And integration with hundreds of car head units out there, which head units support Zune again? Oh yeah, none of them. Using a Zune with a car stereo is an awesome experience.

For iTunes Smart Playlist abilities alone the Zune doesn't compare. Nice try with the >>>>>>>>> it should really be <<<<<<<<<<< but whatever...

 

[zerocool84]

And WAY better smart playlists
WAY more and WAY better accessories
And integration with hundreds of car head units out there, which head units support Zune again? Oh yeah, none of them. Using a Zune with a car stereo is an awesome experience.

For iTunes Smart Playlist abilities alone the Zune doesn't compare. Nice try with the >>>>>>>>> it should really be <<<<<<<<<<< but whatever...

Zune Pass

That is all.

And it'd be sad if there wasn't car head units that didn't support an iPod seeing as it's been out for a long ass time and the Zune hasn't.

 

[QueBert]

Zune Pass

That is all.

And it'd be sad if there wasn't car head units that didn't support an iPod seeing as it's been out for a long ass time and the Zune hasn't.

Eh? The Zune has been out since 07, that's coming up on 3 years, and still no head units that integrate with them. Best Buy has about 6 accessories total for a Zune, that's uhhh, 2 a year. What will be your excuse in 5 years when there are still no head units that link up with a Zune. And there are a whopping 16 accessories available? You could buy more iPad accessories for it 2 months before it came out than the Zune after being out for 3 years. Length of time on the market has nothing to do with the lack of Zune support. And no, it's not going to change, ever...