AOC- Amazon Pays their Employees in Starvation Wages.

[fskimospy]

Then the poor should kill you and take your stuff. That's "best for most people" after all, you're just one person and they're many.

If you want to lay out an argument as to why murdering people to expropriate their possessions would be the best thing for the most people I'm open to hearing it. Be sure to include second and third order effects!

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

If you want to lay out an argument as to why murdering people to expropriate their possessions would be the best thing for the most people I'm open to hearing it. Be sure to include second and third order effects!

Secondary effect: the rich bastards making the rules/guiding the rulemakers are dead, and as such rational policies can be generated and enforced.
Tertiary effect: on average, per-capita carbon footprint is lowered, thus improving the environment (or at least slowing our descent into oblivion).

I'm now on board with @glenn1's 'Brave New World', where can I sign up to your newsletter?

 

[ivwshane]

Glenn is one of those "all lives matter" kind of guy. He supports equality for all but doesn't give a shit about injustices and systemic disadvantages people face that doesn't allow for an equal footing.

In his eyes you are either a billionaire, a billionaire in the making, or poor people out to kill you for your shit.

Keep sticking your head in the sand.

 

[DrunkenSano]

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make a different to a billionaire if they are screwed over a little but but would make a world of different to a peasant if they were screwed over a little bit. Now if it takes billionaires to be screwed over a little bit to improve the lives of the masses? It should be a slam dunk decision.

 

[ImpulsE69]

It hasn't stopped them all from shopping at Amazon - they brag about it regularly. No matter the outcome, it won't hurt Bezos, only everyone else when they cut workers and raise prices. If they were that worried about it, maybe they shouldn't have allowed the ...what was it...10 years of bailouts? If people really cared, they'd stop shopping at Amazon. (FTR I rarely use Amazon).

Additionally, while I am for the overall idea of...regulations on all out greed (I am pro union as well), there is also a bit of responsibility of those who take the jobs, just like anywhere. You have the right to not take it, or stay there. Yes easier said than done in some cases, but most of these are low end jobs, it is no different than Uber/Lyft.

 

[nickqt]

You notice they only care about the backs of cheap labor when it is close to home and can be used for votes, waiting to see if she and our other socially-conscious liberal democrats call out corporations and Americans in general for enjoying the fruits of foreign cheap labor while looking the other way at things like this.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646

June 18, 2019, 9:47 AM EDT
China forcefully harvests organs from detainees, tribunal concludes

China's organ transplant trade is worth $1 billion a year, according to a tribunal. This story contains details some may find distressing.

Our votes don't affect anything in China, and because I don't want to start WWIII, I'm pretty much against going to war against China.

Our votes, and our Representatives, can start fixing things here in the United States, you know, for our fellow citizens.

Getting rid of "free trade" and adopting "fair trade" would certainly go a long way to helping prevent China and other countries like it from using their citizens as slave labor, but lo and behold, US corporations still write US policies, as the Republican party and Corporate Democrats like it.

It has to start somewhere, champ. I'm sorry AOC gives you the willies because she's a young female not afraid to stand up and fight for things that the working and middle class SHOULD support, if they weren't in thrall of a imbecilic Strongman, and the Republican party that has been shivving them in the back for over 40 years now.

Perhaps workers here in the United States should shut off the right-wing propaganda that they intentionally pump into their skulls, and maybe think about what kind of policies would best help them earn a better wage, without SOSHULASM APPROPRIATING THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION OH NO!

Right-wing propaganda is used to get the working and middle class to vote against their own interests in favor of oligarchs who have all the money and own/operate this country for their own behalf. Simply by making it a tribal identity thing that the rich oligarchs know is a sham, but it allows them to get their votes for tax cuts and further cuts on the benefits Americans SHOULD be getting, but don't.

Wake up.

 

[Luna1968]

Why Amazon? Why isn' AOC going after Costco? Or 7/11?

well Costco pays very well and have employee longevity, its very hard to get a job there. so I am not sure why you would lump them int o the sweat shop of Amazon. and 7/11 are independent franchise owned ask them.

 

[Veliko]

This Glen guy who mentioned Greece on page one is a right special one.

His posts have had me chuckling good and proper.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I think the thing people are missing here in general is that concentrated wealth and power allows employers to collectively pay employees much less than the value of the products they create.

There's a reason why despite the fact that the average American worker is vastly more productive than they were in the 1970's that pay has barely increased. If we were actually paying people by the economic value they produce this wouldn't be the case.

This is an older chart, but you get the idea:

Nope. What do you think caused that massive separation there in that time period? Come on now, use that noggin...

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I do agree that we shouldn't pay people higher wages out of the goodness of our hearts. I also don't think the actual progressive principle is that we should pay people more because it's nice.

In my opinion the progressive answer is first and foremost robust antitrust action which would break up the oligopolies that currently act to hold down wages. Let's have an actually competitive wage market and see where things land.

Since the subject is Jeff Bezos - What about Amazon do you find is a monopoly anymore than Walmart? Which, obviously, it's been well documented that Amazon is a HUGE problem for the likes of Walmart, grocery stores, Target, etc...

 

[fskimospy]

Nope. What do you think caused that massive separation there in that time period? Come on now, use that noggin...

If you're going to say free trade the answer is: nope.

1) While I'm sure it has some effect the trade does not come even remotely close to a large enough share of US GDP to account for that.
2) Other similarly open economies have not seen the same decoupling of productivity and wages.

The most likely answer is our public policy choices since the 1970's.

You could have meant something else entirely though so if so, what?

 

[fskimospy]

Since the subject is Jeff Bezos - What about Amazon do you find is a monopoly anymore than Walmart? Which, obviously, it's been well documented that Amazon is a HUGE problem for the likes of Walmart, grocery stores, Target, etc...

I didn't say monopoly, I said oligopoly.

 

[hal2kilo]

This Glen guy who mentioned Greece on page one is a right special one.

His posts have had me chuckling good and proper.

Welcone to P&N.

 

[Maxima1]

2) Other similarly open economies have not seen the same decoupling of productivity and wages.

The most likely answer is our public policy choices since the 1970's.

Which countries were successful at this just by breaking up retail into numerous players? The pay would still be crap for most. They wouldn't all change into Costcos and never could because that affluent catering business model doesn't work for everything retail. Countries that try to protect mom & pop are doing it wrong. We should celebrate greater efficiency.

 

[ImpulsE69]

The government can't fix the inequality. Any forced 'fix' will just be rolled to the customers which solves nothing. What you are looking for is decency and morals among CEO's who are only beholden to stockholders. Wake me when that happens on a large scale. People love Wall Street too much and people who are CEO's love money, and generally the faster they can make it the better. Paying the workers more just slows that process down and stockholders don't tend to like it either.

The only leverage the worker has is to not work there, and not be a customer.

 

[Maxima1]

The government can't fix the inequality. Any forced 'fix' will just be rolled to the customers which solves nothing. What you are looking for is decency and morals among CEO's who are only beholden to stockholders. Wake me when that happens on a large scale. People love Wall Street too much and people who are CEO's love money, and generally the faster they can make it the better. Paying the workers more just slows that process down and stockholders don't tend to like it either.

The only leverage the worker has is to not work there, and not be a customer.

Of course it can. There are a wide range of policies that can go a long ways to reticifying the issue between the have and have-nots.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Of course it can. There are a wide range of policies that can go a long ways to reticifying the issue between the have and have-nots.

I would be curious to know what you have in mind that won't be abused. Most of the ones I can think of sound great on the surface, but that's what their accountants are for. I mean, the taxes could be raised back to what they were - but that doesn't help the average person in the way we are talking. In general most 'regulations' meant to help the little people just end up being passed onto the consumer - which is fine if you aren't the consumer, but Amazon for instance, most people are the consumer.

 

[MrSquished]

Why Amazon? Why isn' AOC going after Costco? Or 7/11? Or Wallmart? It's because she has made Bezos to be the villian that's why. The rich guy. Yea, they are all villians. I live in NJ. We still have gas attendants. Mandatory $15 hour just went into affect in my state. Should a gas attendant who is doing nothing but putting a nozzle into my car get $15? When the minimum wage law went into affect, the gas station owners got together and said that they can't do it. That they are going to have to let go of their workers. It's just too much money.

I don't know what the answer is. But, I do kniow that if you wait for Congress to fix your financial woes, you're in for a very long wait.

So basically you feel that there should be starvation jobs. Jobs that require little skill should have workers that suffer, starve, have no healthcare, etc.... That's just nuts. You are a brainwashed fool.

 

[fskimospy]

The government can't fix the inequality. Any forced 'fix' will just be rolled to the customers which solves nothing. What you are looking for is decency and morals among CEO's who are only beholden to stockholders. Wake me when that happens on a large scale. People love Wall Street too much and people who are CEO's love money, and generally the faster they can make it the better. Paying the workers more just slows that process down and stockholders don't tend to like it either.

The only leverage the worker has is to not work there, and not be a customer.

We have had other periods of time in our country where inequality was much lower. There are other developed nations that exist today with much lower inequality. I don't understand the idea that this is some mythical, impossible problem to fix when we see effective solutions both during history and currently in other similar countries.

 

[DarthKyrie]

So basically you feel that there should be starvation jobs. Jobs that require little skill should have workers that suffer, starve, have no healthcare, etc.... That's just nuts. You are a brainwashed fool.

A permanent underclass of people that are treated like shit just because of their job, sounds like a fascist paradise.

We have had other periods of time in our country where inequality was much lower. There are other developed nations that exist today with much lower inequality. I don't understand the idea that this is some mythical, impossible problem to fix when we see effective solutions both during history and currently in other similar countries.

Why would we go back to the policies of FDR and Keynesian economics that worked so well until it was all dismantled? It's not like the rich were actually paying the top tax rates anyways, just ignore the fact that in order to do that they were reinvesting profits into their businesses in the form of expansion and higher wages for employees thus shifting taxes onto their workers who were more than happy to be paying more.

 

[ImpulsE69]

We have had other periods of time in our country where inequality was much lower. There are other developed nations that exist today with much lower inequality. I don't understand the idea that this is some mythical, impossible problem to fix when we see effective solutions both during history and currently in other similar countries.

Then propose a solution? Someone will find a way to screw the people it was meant to help. As with most issues in the US, culture is the problem. Accountability is the problem. All out greed is the problem. Pointing to other countries is a great way to say 'but look' but it solves nothing because they are not the US. What I am saying is it is the responsibility of the people to fix it. We have no leverage otherwise.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Then propose a solution? Someone will find a way to screw the people it was meant to help. As with most issues in the US, culture is the problem. Accountability is the problem. All out greed is the problem. Pointing to other countries is a great way to say 'but look' but it solves nothing because they are not the US. What I am saying is it is the responsibility of the people to fix it. We have no leverage otherwise.

Tax the rich. That is the solution. Tax them heavily, tax them often.

It's always been the solution, we just insist on voting in rich people to make rules, and continue to tell us that the other poor people are taking our money.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Tax the rich. That is the solution. Tax them heavily, tax them often.

It's always been the solution, we just insist on voting in rich people to make rules, and continue to tell us that the other poor people are taking our money.

While I agree there are national benefits to this, explain how that puts more money in the hands of the low wage employees? All that does is shift the money to the government to decide where it goes. Suggesting this is the only solution just means no one should have money and everyone should be the same, which gives no incentive to actually move forward.

 

[Maxima1]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

Did I call it or did I call it?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190620100015.htm

Date: June 20, 2019
Source: Lancaster University

Discovery of a 'holy grail' with the invention of universal computer memory

A new type of computer memory to solve the digital technology energy crisis has been invented and patented by scientists. The device is the realization of the decades long search for a 'Universal Memory' to replace the $100 billion market for Dynamic Random Access Memory (DRAM) and flash drives. It promises to transform daily life with its ultra-low energy consumption, allowing computers which do not need to boot up and which could sleep between key strokes.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

While I agree there are national benefits to this, explain how that puts more money in the hands of the low wage employees? All that does is shift the money to the government to decide where it goes. Suggesting this is the only solution just means no one should have money and everyone should be the same, which gives no incentive to actually move forward.

If you tax the rich in a way that encourages them to reinvest in their companies, it has two effects
a) they actually reinvest in their companies (if they own any), generally through improvements to whatever it is they do, and wages
or b) they get the shit taxed out of them, and that money goes to the govt, as you said.

If they increase wages, that goes directly to middle/lower class worker bee's.
If they get taxed, that money can be routed to social programs which improve everyone's lives. It can also provide income for things such as a universal single-payer health system, which will alleviate some costs on the lower pay scale individuals, as well as increase incomes across the board.