AOC- Amazon Pays their Employees in Starvation Wages.

[glenn1]

Its not Bezos' responsibility. I don't blame Bezos for his wealth. I simply support legislation that would prevent people from accumulating that level of wealth at the expense of their employees. I don't blame the players, I blame the rules. Working conditions in this country don't improve because employers suddenly decide they're going to be saints. They improve because the citizens fight for policy that benefits the working class.

Bezos' wealth has basically nothing to do with his employees. It's 99.9999% based upon private investors bidding up the value of stock shares in his company of which he is a major holder. You could theoretically force an artificial increase in the wages of his employees even if it was far above the actual value their labor created and he'd still be a very rich man. The value of Amazon (and his wealth in turn) is based upon the paradigm change of online shopping being adopted as the primary mode of consumerism by millions rather than what his employees were paid. The closest analog is Facebook where the value created is the paradigm change (only social media vs online shopping) and Mark Zuckerberg is likewise a billionaire despite his workforce looking very different (much, much less staff but very highly paid).

 

[mect]

Are we heading towards a revolution, or workers revolting? I don't see that taking place, but in 10 years? 20 years?

I hope not. I'd much prefer to see workers instead just vote for people that aren't bought and paid for by people like Bezos that continue to fix the rules for the wealthy instead of the workers. I hope the workers start voting for people that will improve conditions for the working class. We'll see what happens.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Are we heading towards a revolution, or workers revolting? I don't see that taking place, but in 10 years? 20 years?

If nothing changes, then it's definitely a possibility. The ruling class is doing it's damnedest to keep Americans fighting over wedge issues, quite effectively, while 40+ years of funnel up economic policy has been in place

 

[Greenman]

The fundamental issue is that amazon doesn't ship all of it's created poverty off shore. If they could find a way to make children in China do those jobs we'd all be fine with them starving.

 

[glenn1]

I hope not. I'd much prefer to see workers instead just vote for people that aren't bought and paid for by people like Bezos that continue to fix the rules for the wealthy instead of the workers. I hope the workers start voting for people that will improve conditions for the working class. We'll see what happens.

What's more likely to happen is that Bezos will divest Amazon from the fulfillment side of the business (and all the low paying jobs in the warehouses) in favor of the more valuable and productive businesses (the market platform itself and AWS services). In no case can I see people filling boxes in warehouses getting big salary bumps, whether they're working for Amazon or whoever they'd sell the business to. If you raise the salary costs of labor above the value that labor provides then the business will go away and make no mistake having humans do picking/boxing work is low-value add work. Doesn't mean the workers aren't valuable as human beings, it's just that JOB isn't worth doing enough to pay that much to have it done. Either it will be done by a robot instead, or some other fulfillment model will rise to take its place.

 

[zinfamous]

The fundamental issue is that amazon doesn't ship all of it's created poverty off shore. If they could find a way to make children in China do those jobs we'd all be fine with them starving.

I like this new trend of so-called conservatives suddenly caring about how we off-shored all of our child labor and anti-labor practices so many decades ago.

It's this thing that they only recently started talking about....oh right about when their handlers started feeding them some nonsense that a trade war is good and you should keep paying for it because it sticks it to China for all those human rights abuses that we suddenly learned about!

 

[dainthomas]

Why Amazon? Why isn' AOC going after Costco? Or 7/11? Or Wallmart? It's because she has made Bezos to be the villian that's why. The rich guy. Yea, they are all villians. I live in NJ. We still have gas attendants. Mandatory $15 hour just went into affect in my state. Should a gas attendant who is doing nothing but putting a nozzle into my car get $15? When the minimum wage law went into affect, the gas station owners got together and said that they can't do it. That they are going to have to let go of their workers. It's just too much money.

I don't know what the answer is. But, I do kniow that if you wait for Congress to fix your financial woes, you're in for a very long wait.

What a dolt. People scramble to get jobs at Costco, simply because its workers are paid and treated well from everything I've heard.

Our society requires people that pump gas, clean bathrooms, mow grass etc. Should wages for those jobs be able to provide the dignity of being able to afford basic necessities like food, shelter, and health care?

 

[fskimospy]

We're not disagreeing, we are both saying paying higher wages basely solely on some progressive principle of "it's a good thing" isn't a viable business model.

I do agree that we shouldn't pay people higher wages out of the goodness of our hearts. I also don't think the actual progressive principle is that we should pay people more because it's nice.

In my opinion the progressive answer is first and foremost robust antitrust action which would break up the oligopolies that currently act to hold down wages. Let's have an actually competitive wage market and see where things land.

 

[theeedude]

Amazon is lying:
The company responded by saying it "paid $2.6B in corporate taxes since 2016. We pay every penny we owe. Congress designed tax laws to encourage companies to reinvest in the American economy. We have."
They get a tax break for giving stock based compensation to executives, not for reinvesting in American economy.

 

[mect]

What's more likely to happen is that Bezos will divest Amazon from the fulfillment side of the business (and all the low paying jobs in the warehouses) in favor of the more valuable and productive businesses (the market platform itself and AWS services). In no case can I see people filling boxes in warehouses getting big salary bumps, whether they're working for Amazon or whoever they'd sell the business to. If you raise the salary costs of labor above the value that labor provides then the business will go away and make no mistake having humans do picking/boxing work is low-value add work. Doesn't mean the workers aren't valuable as human beings, it's just that JOB isn't worth doing enough to pay that much to have it done. Either it will be done by a robot instead, or some other fulfillment model will rise to take its place.

Sounds like a good reason for some policy changes. No problem with having it done by a robot. Automation should be a good thing. It frees people up from repetitive, mundane tasks. Lets just make sure the profits generated by those robots are distributed to all Americans.

 

[fskimospy]

The fundamental issue is that amazon doesn't ship all of it's created poverty off shore. If they could find a way to make children in China do those jobs we'd all be fine with them starving.

You realize free trade and globalization of the type that Amazon represents isn't creating poverty, right? In a global sense this has raised more people out of poverty than anything in all of human history.

While extreme poverty was declining before markets really opened up in the 1960's and 1970's its decline became precipitous after that point, in large part due to the massive reduction of poverty in China enabled by freer trade.

 

[Maxima1]

Sounds like a good reason for some policy changes. No problem with having it done by a robot. Automation should be a good thing. It frees people up from repetitive, mundane tasks. Lets just make sure the profits generated by those robots are distributed to all Americans.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

 

[glenn1]

Sounds like a good reason for some policy changes. No problem with having it done by a robot. Automation should be a good thing. It frees people up from repetitive, mundane tasks. Lets just make sure the profits generated by those robots are distributed to all Americans.

So when do you start writing checks to the poor for all the automation you've used to perform repetitive, mundane tasks? Presumably you have devices like vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, etc in your home and don't employ a large staff of household workers to do these jobs for you by hand like people did 100 years ago. Why should Amazon need to pay but you're exempt?

 

[fskimospy]

So when do you start writing checks to the poor for all the automation you've used to perform repetitive, mundane tasks? Presumably you have devices like vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, etc in your home and don't employ a large staff of household workers to do these jobs for you by hand like people did 100 years ago. Why should Amazon need to pay but you're exempt?

Uhmm, because mect isn't engaged in commercial activity with those machines? You're asking why I don't pay payroll taxes when I clean my kitchen because theoretically I could have hired someone else to do it. We tax commercial activity, not elective labor for one's personal benefit.

Regardless what we did in the past is irrelevant. Automation is highly likely to eventually lead to large scale unemployment. This is a good thing, not a bad thing! If that happens though we should simply tax the people who benefit most from this and give it to the other people because that's the best way to structure society. Again, the end goal of technology is 100% unemployment and we should work as hard as we can towards this. The idea that once we achieved this that the one person who owned all the robots running the world should be a king and everyone else destitute though is nonsense.

 

[glenn1]

Uhmm, because mect isn't engaged in commercial activity with those machines? You're asking why I don't pay payroll taxes when I clean my kitchen because theoretically I could have hired someone else to do it. We tax commercial activity, not elective labor for one's personal benefit.

Regardless what we did in the past is irrelevant. Automation is highly likely to eventually lead to large scale unemployment. This is a good thing, not a bad thing! If that happens though we should simply tax the people who benefit most from this and give it to the other people because that's the best way to structure society. Again, the end goal of technology is 100% unemployment and we should work as hard as we can towards this. The idea that once we achieved this that the one person who owned all the robots running the world should be a king and everyone else destitute though is nonsense.

Shorter version of what you said, "I want billionaires to pay for others to have the life I think they should have instead of me."

 

[Jaskalas]

So when do you start writing checks to the poor for all the automation you've used to perform repetitive, mundane tasks? Presumably you have devices like vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, etc in your home and don't employ a large staff of household workers to do these jobs for you by hand like people did 100 years ago. Why should Amazon need to pay but you're exempt?

Ultimately I'd have us all pay a 25% tax for that purpose alone.
We should all pay, and all benefit from a society with a fully fledged safety net.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Shorter version of what you said, "I want billionaires to pay for others to have the life I think they should have instead of me."

Close, 'The money that most Billionaires have is ill-gotten, and should probably be redistributed where it belongs, back to the country and people where that money originated'.

 

[blankslate]

Someone asked

Why isn't AOC going after Costco?

well

Chart of the Day: Costco Is in First Place For Fair Wages

https://www.comparably.com/blog/the...-walmart-kroger-amazon-costco-and-home-depot/

^that story compares how employees from different well-known companies feel about the company they work for (this includes costco and amazon and I think Amazon has rated 2nd or 3rd to Costco in most categories because of the recent wage hike that Rho Khana and Bernie Sanders basically scared Amazon into making happen


That's why people don't often criticize Costco. They've actually been a leader among corporations in providing good wages and benefits and work environment to their employees and I hope they continue to do so.


______________

 

[IronWing]

Shorter version of what you said, "I want billionaires to pay for others to have the life I think they should have instead of me."

Yes, absolutely. Now we need to round up the votes to make it happen. Whom are you going to side with Glenn? The billionaires or yourself?

 

[theeedude]

Shorter version of what you said, "I want billionaires to pay for others to have the life I think they should have instead of me."

You seem very concerned for billionaires

 

[glenn1]

Yes, absolutely. Now we need to round up the votes to make it happen. Whom are you going to side with Glenn? The billionaires or yourself?

Unlike you I'm not selfish and want society at large to help the less fortunate and not just screw over any single person or group of persons including billionaires. If "the poor" deserve help, either both you and Bezos help or no one helps. Simply pushing that responsibility off on someone else is not only greedy on your part but stupid and unworkable. At least @Jaskalas has integrity which you lack.

 

[IronWing]

When we need a big bag of money to make something happen, we go where the money is. One system allotted billions to billionaires, another system can allocate the money elsewhere.

 

[fskimospy]

Shorter version of what you said, "I want billionaires to pay for others to have the life I think they should have instead of me."

Shorter version of what I said paragraph 1: saying you should be taxed for cleaning your kitchen because you could have paid someone else to clean your kitchen is stupid.

paragraph 2: we should structure society in the way that works the best for the most people.

 

[glenn1]

Shorter version of what I said paragraph 1: saying you should be taxed for cleaning your kitchen because you could have paid someone else to clean your kitchen is stupid.

paragraph 2: we should structure society in the way that works the best for the most people.

Then the poor should kill you and take your stuff. That's "best for most people" after all, you're just one person and they're many.

 

[DarthKyrie]

I think the thing people are missing here in general is that concentrated wealth and power allows employers to collectively pay employees much less than the value of the products they create.

There's a reason why despite the fact that the average American worker is vastly more productive than they were in the 1970's that pay has barely increased. If we were actually paying people by the economic value they produce this wouldn't be the case.

This is an older chart, but you get the idea:

If the minimum wage had kept up with productivity it would be around $27 an hour.

What a dolt. People scramble to get jobs at Costco, simply because its workers are paid and treated well from everything I've heard.

Our society requires people that pump gas, clean bathrooms, mow grass etc. Should wages for those jobs be able to provide the dignity of being able to afford basic necessities like food, shelter, and health care?

According to our resident GOPers those jobs don't require payment.

Sounds like a good reason for some policy changes. No problem with having it done by a robot. Automation should be a good thing. It frees people up from repetitive, mundane tasks. Lets just make sure the profits generated by those robots are distributed to all Americans.

That would be SOCIALISM we can't do that.

Yes, absolutely. Now we need to round up the votes to make it happen. Whom are you going to side with Glenn? The billionaires or yourself?

Glenn cares about the billionaire class because they have no one fighting for them against the people that work for them trying to get paid more.