Anyone here think McCain will actually win?

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Muse
If McCain wins I'm going to look into my options for moving to another country, becoming a citizen there. Maybe Canada, Australia, a European country. I will find it hard to consider the USA a civilized nation.

yea sure you will.

I didn't say I'd move. I said I'd "look into" it. You better believe it.

Way to back out of that one!

While I think it's irrational to move out of the country if McCain wins, he said exactly the 2nd time what he said the first time.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
Obama on the other hand could nominate a complete idiot (think "Harriet Myers" level), and the congress would allow it. We'd be stuck with the idiot for 30 years. Another argument for voting McCain.

Harriet Myers was picked so as not to piss off the females when bush removed the only female on the court. He needed a loyal dog who would never make it so he could put his real guy in there.

I think even more interesting than the "fact" that Bush was able to remove a Supreme Court Justice who had been appointed for life is that apparently Sandra Day O'Connor was the only woman on a Supreme Court that also had Ruth Bader Ginsburg on it...

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Muse
If McCain wins I'm going to look into my options for moving to another country, becoming a citizen there. Maybe Canada, Australia, a European country. I will find it hard to consider the USA a civilized nation.

yea sure you will.

I didn't say I'd move. I said I'd "look into" it. You better believe it.

do you know how many people said they were moving if Bush won in 2000, then said it again in 2004?

Plenty of hollywood types said it and are still here. Plenty of Americans said it and are still here...

Duh. When the National Socialists took over Germany some people thought about leaving and did and some who didn't were exterminated. I'm not saying that now, but it could be that those who do emigrate may be winners if things get too fucked up here. You better believe that if McCain somehow wins, I'll be shopping for a new country.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Muse
If McCain wins I'm going to look into my options for moving to another country, becoming a citizen there. Maybe Canada, Australia, a European country. I will find it hard to consider the USA a civilized nation.

yea sure you will.

I didn't say I'd move. I said I'd "look into" it. You better believe it.

Way to back out of that one!

You're a moron. I stated the obvious. Read my post again. Sheesh. Look, if McCain wins I'll have to believe that he stole the election. Even if the vote count/electoral count is legit, his tactics are vile. I don't want to live in a country where democracy is supposed to be the system, but really isn't. Well, I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does, I'll be thinking I shouldn't be living here. Capiche? I wouldn't put down on people thinking they should be living somewhere else. That's completely their right. With the exception of native Americans and people brought in as slaves (and yes, slave trade still exists, but nowadays it's clandestine), the whole country is populated by people who exercised that option or their descendents.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Muse
If McCain wins I'm going to look into my options for moving to another country, becoming a citizen there. Maybe Canada, Australia, a European country. I will find it hard to consider the USA a civilized nation.

yea sure you will.

I didn't say I'd move. I said I'd "look into" it. You better believe it.

Way to back out of that one!

You're a moron. I stated the obvious. Read my post again. Sheesh. Look, if McCain wins I'll have to believe that he stole the election. Even if the vote count/electoral count is legit, his tactics are vile. I don't want to live in a country where democracy is supposed to be the system, but really isn't. Well, I don't think it's going to happen, but if it does, I'll be thinking I shouldn't be living here. Capiche? I wouldn't put down on people thinking they should be living somewhere else. That's completely their right. With the exception of native Americans and people brought in as slaves (and yes, slave trade still exists, but nowadays it's clandestine), the whole country is populated by people who exercised that option or their descendents.

So if one candidate in a democratic election wins the nomination by a legitimate lead in the electoral college, that "really isn't democracy?" 😕 I'm having trouble following you there. "His tactics are vile." Every candidate uses harsh negative ads and stretches/misrepresents the truth.... Obama does this constantly and so does McCain. Is it vile? Yes. Is it unfortunate? Yes. But it has a firm place in the political process and both parties/candidates are to blame.

I highly doubt McCain will win.... there is just too much negative stigma associated with the Republican party right now because of public opinion about Bush. Unfortunately the public blames everything bad that happens during a presidency on the President and party in power. Not saying Bush has done everything right and I disagree with him on a few things (Iraq war for one) but he gets blamed far too much for the current problems.

And of course this carries over to McCain, even though he is a completely different candidate with different views and proposals. The thing to look forward to, however, is that we Republicans will soon be able to blame every problem on Barack Obama, much like every problem from 2001-2008 has been blamed on Bush. Hurricane? Must have been Obama's fault. Economic downturn because of mistakes by banks? Must be Obama's fault.

It is always easier to get elected when you are seen as a "new face," like Obama currently is. Everyone thinks he will represent some great change in Washington and that suddenly everything will be better than it is now. Yet if we want to look at an example of how Democratic "change" has worked, we can simply look at Democratic-controlled Congress. Approval ratings are lower than ever and the Dems have down nothing significant to help Americans since they established a firm majority. I doubt it will be anything different with Obama; 9/10 of his proposals will never be passed and the status quo of Washington will continue.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

If we get voter fraud he will win.

 

[blahblah99]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
The American public is generally stupid, so I think Obama will win. I know enough about the potential pitfalls of polling that I think it's possible that McCain can win, but not very likely.

Well in my view, the stupid ones aren't the ones voting Obama 😉

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone voting for Obama is dumb, that's certainly not the case, I'm just saying the damage McCain could do while in office is limited by the democratic congress. The damage Obama could do is essentially unlimited.

That's a risk I'll take to fill a hole America's been digging the last 8 years. If Mccain gets into office with a democratic congress, NOTHING will get done except a lot of head butting.

 

[Lorax2]

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
If we get voter fraud he will win.

The voter fraud has been obama's kind
I hope McCain will win but don't think that he will
I think obama is not a secret socialist,there is nothing secret about it

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Lorax2

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
If we get voter fraud he will win.

The voter fraud has been obama's kind
I hope McCain will win but don't think that he will
I think obama is not a secret socialist,there is nothing secret about it

Give one example of Obama voter fraud. You can't, because it doesn't exist. What does is Republicans' dirty tricks like calling people telling them Dems vote on Wednesday, that you can go to jail if anything on your registration doesn't match, etc.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
The American public is generally stupid, so I think Obama will win. I know enough about the potential pitfalls of polling that I think it's possible that McCain can win, but not very likely.

Well in my view, the stupid ones aren't the ones voting Obama 😉

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone voting for Obama is dumb, that's certainly not the case, I'm just saying the damage McCain could do while in office is limited by the democratic congress. The damage Obama could do is essentially unlimited.

That argument would be a lot more convincing if Republicans hadn't spent several years trying to gain complete control of the government, then fucking us all over once they got there. Honestly I think they deserve to take a backseat for a few years. If Democrats screw up their chance like the Republicans did, well then the voters are a scant few years away from trying to fix the situation. But I'll be damned if I'm going to base my vote on some rules that the other guys refuse to follow.

Duuuuh, of course the republicans tried to gain control of government, that's what the parties do, they fight for more power for themselves. No matter what you think of the republicans or the democrats, you simply can't deny (at least not with any credibility) that McCain's actions would be more limited by congress than Obama. If Obama turns out to be a bad president, he could end up hurting the US as much as Bush has. McCain's "downside" is limited.

On the other hand, if it turns out that Obama is a great President, and McCain is not, then voting for McCain to get gridlock would seem to be a pretty stupid choice. Having a Democratic majority in the government certainly gives more potential for error, but it also gives more of a potential to actually accomplish something positive. You're arguing for McCain as the "safe" choice, but that assumes that government will always lean towards the negative when given the chance. Personally I think Obama can actually do some good in the White House...why would I WANT gridlock?

 

[L00PY]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
Heard from a guy in my office today who was predicting a McCain win by 5 points due to poll numbers supposedly being bogus and such. I told him I thought he was crazy. Even my hardcore republican friends think Obama's going to win.

Never underestimate the Dem's talent at losing an election I guess. We shall see on Tuesday.

One of the other points he made was that GWB was down to Kerry by 8 points going into Election day. Anyone know if thats true or if he's full of it?

that would appear to be false.
Text

Best I can tell, the "worst" poll was the Harris internet poll that had Kerry with 50% and Bush with 47%. Out of 16 national polls, only 4 of them had Kerry over Bush (the afore mentioned internet poll, the partisan Democracy Corps, FOX News, and Marist College).

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
The American public is generally stupid, so I think Obama will win. I know enough about the potential pitfalls of polling that I think it's possible that McCain can win, but not very likely.

Well in my view, the stupid ones aren't the ones voting Obama 😉

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone voting for Obama is dumb, that's certainly not the case, I'm just saying the damage McCain could do while in office is limited by the democratic congress. The damage Obama could do is essentially unlimited.

This is evidence of the idiot wind blowing through America.

Your argument is essentially that we should elect McCain, even though he's a worse candidate, because he could be "reigned in" (gridlocked) by Congress.

Obama is a better candidate, period. If Congress gets out of control during his presidency, elect the GOP back into power in Congress in 2010.

We have 2 year windows to change power in Congress, but a 4 year window to elect the right man as President.

It's a bullshit argument, but McCain has come out with a lot of those in this final week.

No, you're misreading my argument. McCain is the better candidate regardless (IMO), but if you're one of the people who doesn't feel comfortable with Obama but yet doesn't want a repeat of the last 8 years, you can rest assured that there won't be such a repeat because McCain could not do the things Bush did (because of congress) even if he was so inclined. Under no circumstances do I think Obama is a better candidate, he's no more qualified than Palin.

Obama can speak in complete sentences without sounding like a complete idiot, not a high standard, I admit...but apparently one Palin is having trouble with.

Uh..sure he can..uh...umm..uh..unless..umm..there's a uh...problem..uh..with the uh..teleprompter..uh. :laugh:

you must have missed the debates.

 

[Lorax2]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Lorax2

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
If we get voter fraud he will win.

The voter fraud has been obama's kind
I hope McCain will win but don't think that he will
I think obama is not a secret socialist,there is nothing secret about it

Give one example of Obama voter fraud. You can't, because it doesn't exist. What does is Republicans' dirty tricks like calling people telling them Dems vote on Wednesday, that you can go to jail if anything on your registration doesn't match, etc.

Acorn

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: aphex
Never underestimate the stupidity of Americans, after all, they elected Bush in twice :beer:

Actually, you should take advantage of your coworker's stupidity. Time for a friendly wager. You'll pay him $30 if McCain wins, he pays you $20 if Obama wins. He already thinks he's going to win; be a nice odds-maker to entice him a bit more.

 

[woodie1]

With McCain being outspent by more than 3:1 it is hard to see him winning but we'll know by the 5th.

 

[Chaotic42]

He's got a fighting chance. Remember that there are quite a few "middle Americans" who are fairly conservative. I try to avoid discussing politics in real life, but I don't know anyone who has said that they are voting for Obama.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Muse
If McCain wins I'm going to look into my options for moving to another country, becoming a citizen there. Maybe Canada, Australia, a European country. I will find it hard to consider the USA a civilized nation.

yea sure you will.

I didn't say I'd move. I said I'd "look into" it. You better believe it.

Way to back out of that one!

Do you have trouble reading?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
He's got a fighting chance. Remember that there are quite a few "middle Americans" who are fairly conservative. I try to avoid discussing politics in real life, but I don't know anyone who has said that they are voting for Obama.

Yes, your vague generalities and personal anecdotes certainly trump scientific polls.

 

[BrownTown]

Several people I know believe the "curtain" effect will give McCain the victory.

That's the one where all the racist people lie about liking a black candidate and then vote against him.

 

[theeedude]

I am sure a lot of people are just eager to vote for the old geezer, bimbo, plumber, and builder administration.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
He's got a fighting chance. Remember that there are quite a few "middle Americans" who are fairly conservative. I try to avoid discussing politics in real life, but I don't know anyone who has said that they are voting for Obama.

Yes, your vague generalities and personal anecdotes certainly trump scientific polls.

Thanks, I try.

I still believe that there is no way to predict how people will vote. If this were a random sampling of car color, number of pets, or something else not subject to opinion, I'd be more inclined to believe polls.

 

[TallBill]

This thread stinks of manure. To actually answer the OP's question, I think that Obama and Mccain both have a chance to win. I think that polls are a terrible thing, and that it's going to be an interesting tuesday night.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I am sure a lot of people are just eager to vote for the old geezer, bimbo, plumber, and builder administration.

As compared to the lawyer, his wife the lawyer, and his VP choice, another lawyer?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Lorax2

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Lorax2

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
If we get voter fraud he will win.

The voter fraud has been obama's kind
I hope McCain will win but don't think that he will
I think obama is not a secret socialist,there is nothing secret about it

Give one example of Obama voter fraud. You can't, because it doesn't exist. What does is Republicans' dirty tricks like calling people telling them Dems vote on Wednesday, that you can go to jail if anything on your registration doesn't match, etc.

Acorn

Nonsense. ACORN has been accused by the right wing of registration fraud, which has nothing to do with voter fraud (actually voting when when you're not legally qualified, or voting more than once).

 

[extra]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
Duuuuh, of course the republicans tried to gain control of government, that's what the parties do, they fight for more power for themselves. No matter what you think of the republicans or the democrats, you simply can't deny (at least not with any credibility) that McCain's actions would be more limited by congress than Obama. If Obama turns out to be a bad president, he could end up hurting the US as much as Bush has. McCain's "downside" is limited.

With Palin as his VP?

No.

Yes, even with Palin. Even if -- gasp -- something would happen with (president) McCain, Palin would still be effectively reigned in by a strong opposition congress. There is no limit to the damage Obama can do with free reign.

As an independant who voted for Obama, I do somewhat agree with the sentiment that we should have opposing parties in government to limit the possible damage. That said, I hope we can keep a democratic majority at this point, to get SOMETHING, god, ANYTHING, done about healthcare. (Though to be honest I did vote republican for my representative this year, but the chick running is more of a libertarian or oldschool republican than what people would associate with republicans these days).

Anyway though, if the dems do a good job in the next 2 years, I say give them a little more time, if they have done poorly then hopefully we'll get republicans (hopefully some REAL republicans, not the whacky ones that are in power now) in control of the senate. Historically, despite any hatred for clinton, our country's government did a good job in the 90's and ran fairly well and ran efficiently.

We seem to do fairly well when we've got a dem president and republicans in congress/senate. Shrugs.