Anyone else VERY underwhelmed with Llano's GPU performance?

[Arkaign]

Pathetic, and completely out of consideration for anyone wanting to play something more complicated than minesweeper.

For ~$600, I can get an i5 HP with BluRay, 6GB DDR3, 750GB HDD, 17.3" LED HD, and a discrete HD5650M 1GB that will blow this turkey out of the water. For a tiny bit more, I can get one with a discrete HD5850M. That's not bad really, and is probably the cheapest way to get a notebook with passable gaming performance. For a desktop, basically *any* $50 discrete card hands this its own ass.

I bet the next one will be considerably better though. Remember Phenom I? It was terrible, whereas PhII was pretty darned good considering.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Pathetic, and completely out of consideration for anyone wanting to play something more complicated than minesweeper.

For ~$600, I can get an i5 HP with BluRay, 6GB DDR3, 750GB HDD, 17.3" LED HD, and a discrete HD5650M 1GB that will blow this turkey out of the water. For a tiny bit more, I can get one with a discrete HD5850M. That's not bad really, and is probably the cheapest way to get a notebook with passable gaming performance. For a desktop, basically *any* $50 discrete card hands this its own ass.

I bet the next one will be considerably better though. Remember Phenom I? It was terrible, whereas PhII was pretty darned good considering.

Phenom 2 was figthing Intel's 45nm quad most of the time...and it never posed any threat to Intel's i7...

 

[Rifter]

...they are, within reason. I really doubt anyone cares if they go back and re-test a 3870 with an i7, and I wish you the best of luck benching a Llano GPU on an i7.

you dont get it, they could have tested the competition(everything but llano GPU) all on the same CPU as Llano by using a X4 645 CPU. Im not saying try and morph Llano GPU to a i7.

 

[Arkadrel]

Anyone suprised should lay off the coolaid.

Anyone promoting this for REAL world gaming should be flogged.
IGP or APU...dosn't matter....gaming requires a GPU.

Unless you like SD gaming on low with no AA/AF...in which case I would recommend you boardgames.

The A8-3500M (mobile) Llano, is a 35watt product I believe.
On (stock) it can play Crysis 2 @ 1280x800, High Details (No AA) and get an avg of 32fps.

Yes... your laptop will give you playable frame rates for Crysis 2, without a discrete card in it.

On (stock) it can play Metro2033 @1280x800, low Details, Dx10 (No AA) 4xAF, and get an avg of 31fps.

Yes... your laptop will give you playable frame rates for Metro2033, without a discrete card in it.

source (for benchmarks):
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3500m-llano-apu,2959.html



Im sure with drivers, they ll get abit more performance out of it.
Also this is ONLY the 35watt Llano @1.5ghz (2.4ghz turbo) (mobile), with DDR3-1333 (only).

The Desktop version with DDR3-1866 and running around 3.7ghz is bound to be "enough" for alot of people that are fine gameing in the 1280 or 1440 or so resolutions.

 

[Arkadrel]

What speed memory issue/debate is not realistic. Who would buy 1866 memory for a desktop and pair it with a cpu like this ?
There is a premium for that speed memory that would make no sense in this platform. Also , I would not expect any mobile vendor to include anything faster than 1333. Which is probably the 'standard' drivers are built/tested on .

2x2gb DDR3 1333 = ~40$ (newegg)
2x2gb DDR3 1600 = ~44$ (newegg)
2x2gb DDR3 1866 = ~65$ (newegg)

*edit nvm.

DDR3-1600 seems to be the sweet spot, worth the extra 4$.. not sure if DDR3 1866 is worth the differnce up from the 1600's.

 

[Rifter]

2x2gb DDR3 1333 = ~40$ (newegg)
2x2gb DDR3 1600 = ~44$ (newegg)
2x2gb DDR3 1866 = ~65$ (newegg)

*edit nvm.

DDR3-1600 seems to be the sweet spot, worth the extra 4$.. not sure if DDR3 1866 is worth the differnce up from the 1600's.

Every Mhz you can get out of the ram will help with a IGP. I want to see some benches with ram up to 2000Mhz and beyond i hope someone will attempt this it might make Llano into what it should have been.

The only thing is if you spend enough cash to get that faster ram you may have been better off going with bargain basement ram and a discreet GPU.

 

[Lonbjerg]

The A8-3500M (mobile) Llano, is a 35watt product I believe.
On (stock) it can play Crysis 2 @ 1280x800, High Details (No AA) and get an avg of 32fps.

Yes... your laptop will give you playable frame rates for Crysis 2, without a discrete card in it.

On (stock) it can play Metro2033 @1280x800, low Details, Dx10 (No AA) 4xAF, and get an avg of 31fps.

Yes... your laptop will give you playable frame rates for Metro2033, without a discrete card in it.

source (for benchmarks):
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3500m-llano-apu,2959.html



Im sure with drivers, they ll get abit more performance out of it.
Also this is ONLY the 35watt Llano @1.5ghz (2.4ghz turbo) (mobile), with DDR3-1333 (only).

The Desktop version with DDR3-1866 and running around 3.7ghz is bound to be "enough" for alot of people that are fine gameing in the 1280 or 1440 or so resolutions.

If I want AMD PR I'll go to their website....welcome to my ignore.



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[Mopetar]

The AnandTech article lists the Llano part as having the GPU clocked at 600 MHz. The 5570 is clocked at 650 MHz, which may also contribute to some of the differences. The memory bandwidth seems like a definite bottleneck. They may want to consider adding some GDDR to the package or some other way of alleviating the bottleneck.

 

[Rifter]

The Desktop version with DDR3-1866 and running around 3.7ghz is bound to be "enough" for alot of people that are fine gameing in the 1280 or 1440 or so resolutions.

The top desktop SKU doesn't even have turbo and is only clocked at 2.9Ghz, what makes you think they will overclock to 3.7Ghz? Just because a Phenom II will hit 3.7Ghz with ease does not mean that Llano will, it has the extra heat of the GPU to deal without any more surface area to cool it.

Also no one has a 1280 or 1440 monitor anymore, almost all new LCD monitors are 1080P. And the scaling of most monitors especially cheap ones is very bad, when gaming on a LCD doing it at native res is always the best option.

 

[cotak13]

So much negativity.

This isn't a hardcore gaming platform. This is moving the lower bounds higher for integrated graphics. And it's not really anything to do with the narrow minded focus of most of the posters here who can only look at these benchmarks and wonder about their gaming experience.

If you think about it. This is a integrated chip which allows ultraportable built with it to actually be used for some games. For me that's quite an improvement already. Which ultraportable right now has this level of graphics performance?

Seriously, all the moaning is like the ricer I saw the other day who was driving a prius with fart can and painted his brakes red. To compare to expect Llano to beat some high end discrete part is like bringing a knife to a gun fight and complaining when you are dead.

 

[GaiaHunter]

The AnandTech article lists the Llano part as having the GPU clocked at 600 MHz. The 5570 is clocked at 650 MHz, which may also contribute to some of the differences. The memory bandwidth seems like a definite bottleneck. They may want to consider adding some GDDR to the package or some other way of alleviating the bottleneck.

Actually Anandtech 5570 is clocked at 750 MHz (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4448/amd-llano-desktop-performance-preview/3):

The HD 6450 only has 160 cores compared to 400 on the 6550D, while the 5570 has 400 cores running at 750MHz.

 

[badb0y]

Is this real life?

Llano is not supposed to compete with SB

Llano is not supposed to be a gaming platform

Llano is not AMD's flagship CPU

Llano is supposed to a mid-low end CPU which offers a decent integrated GPU and above all is power-efficient. This thing is going to kill in the laptop market due to it's power efficiency and GPU performance. A person who uses their laptop/computer for light gaming,browsing the web, and HTPC type stuff this thing is awesome, for us power users we have to wait for Bulldozer.

Some of the responses here are childish and immature.

OT: Stop telling us you are putting people on ignore, no one cares.

 

[wahdangun]

so where do I can find a $650 ~$700 Laptop with 1080p screen and a good graphic card that capable to drive the display?

 

[OS]

The A8-3500M (mobile) Llano, is a 35watt product I believe.
On (stock) it can play Crysis 2 @ 1280x800, High Details (No AA) and get an avg of 32fps.

Yes... your laptop will give you playable frame rates for Crysis 2, without a discrete card in it.

On (stock) it can play Metro2033 @1280x800, low Details, Dx10 (No AA) 4xAF, and get an avg of 31fps.

Yes... your laptop will give you playable frame rates for Metro2033, without a discrete card in it.

source (for benchmarks):
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a8-3500m-llano-apu,2959.html



Im sure with drivers, they ll get abit more performance out of it.
Also this is ONLY the 35watt Llano @1.5ghz (2.4ghz turbo) (mobile), with DDR3-1333 (only).

The Desktop version with DDR3-1866 and running around 3.7ghz is bound to be "enough" for alot of people that are fine gameing in the 1280 or 1440 or so resolutions.

is one of us reading that chart wrong?

i see 1280x800 crysis 2 high detail, APU ONLY, 21.5 FPS

Even for a mobile, mainstream part, that is merely ok performance.
No one builds 1280x800 laptops anymore.

 

[OS]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/hp-upgrades-11-pavilion-and-probook-laptops-to-amd-llano-apus/

looks like HP will be selling APU notebooks starting as low as $450

the price to performance ratio in this case is pretty good

 

[waffleironhead]

Anyone suprised should lay off the coolaid.

Anyone promoting this for REAL world gaming should be flogged.
IGP or APU...dosn't matter....gaming requires a GPU.

Unless you like SD gaming on low with no AA/AF...in which case I would recommend you boardgames.

define real world gaming.

 

[darkewaffle]

you dont get it, they could have tested the competition(everything but llano GPU) all on the same CPU as Llano by using a X4 645 CPU. Im not saying try and morph Llano GPU to a i7.

I don't really expect them to build a new test bed and re-do dozens of tests they've already done on their standard config just for this one review. I wouldnt ask them to, and I wouldn't do it myself in their place. It'd be a nice touch but it's not going to reveal much. A 645 is not going to bottleneck a crappy GPU at 1280 in any really significant way, they're good fits for each other but the CPU has significantly more performance headroom than the GPU.

 

[Genx87]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/hp-upgrades-11-pavilion-and-probook-laptops-to-amd-llano-apus/

looks like HP will be selling APU notebooks starting as low as $450

the price to performance ratio in this case is pretty good

That is about where it belongs. In the 400-600 dollar range.

 

[OCGuy]

Just as I suspected, it is better than Intel graphics for now, but still worthless to a gamer.

 

[Red Storm]

So much negativity.

This isn't a hardcore gaming platform. This is moving the lower bounds higher for integrated graphics. And it's not really anything to do with the narrow minded focus of most of the posters here who can only look at these benchmarks and wonder about their gaming experience.

If you think about it. This is a integrated chip which allows ultraportable built with it to actually be used for some games. For me that's quite an improvement already. Which ultraportable right now has this level of graphics performance?

Seriously, all the moaning is like the ricer I saw the other day who was driving a prius with fart can and painted his brakes red. To compare to expect Llano to beat some high end discrete part is like bringing a knife to a gun fight and complaining when you are dead.

This. Anyone with half a brain knew what Llano was all about. If you thought this was supposed to replace mid to high end GPUs you were sorely mistaken. It's nice to see better performance at the low end, this only bodes well for the mid and high end as well as PC game development.

 

[RussianSensation]

Not overly surprised. Yes it beats Sandybridge in graphics but who cares? It fails miserably against it in CPU. The bandwdith starved GPU will hurt this platform when it comes to graphics. The integrated GPU will hurt it when it comes to thermals on the CPU side. It is in the no mans land like I expected. Filling a niche that doesnt need to truely be filled(low end gaming). But I will say it is nice to have one of the companies moving it forward. At least provide a higher baseline for mobile gaming.

I think the bigger problem is that you can get a laptop with faster GPU performance and CPU performance for $700-750 on the Intel side (and these are regular prices, not even deals):

i5 480 + HD5730 for $700:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834246003

i5 480 + GT 540M (which beat 6620 in almost every gaming benchmark in AT's review) for $700:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834115987

i5 480 + HD6550M for $700:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834215095

i5 2410 + GT 540M for $750:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834215110

Every single one of these laptops provides faster CPU & GPU performance (than either the 6620G or the 6630M GPUs) (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html)

So Llano A-8 based laptop would need to be less than $700. So imho, AMD is going to make the most significant market share gains in the $400 to $600 laptop space by attracting users who aren't willing to spend $700 on a laptop but still want some acceptable budget gaming GPU for WoW and Sims. To me CPU performance from 2007 isn't acceptable when I would generally use a laptop for at least 2 years. So that extra $100-200 amortized over 2 years isn't a lot for something you use 5+ days a week. Then again, in this economy there is a great opportunity to market $400-600 laptops.

Improved battery life is probably the most impressive to me on this new platform. This gives me hope that Bulldozer might actually be competitive with SB in terms of power consumption on the desktop at 32nm.

Also, on this will force Intel to continue to improve CPU graphics now that they have a better competitor. I bet once AMD adds an 800SP GPU core + Bulldozer in 2013 or so, it will become a very strong contender. For now this is a good first step.

 

[krumme]

I am disapointed Anandtech only choose 3 identical i7 460 for comparison.
Next time can we have 5?

And then the resolution. Why not test at 1024*768 on the mobile platform also - like the preview? And 800*600?

And next time pleaseunder clock ram on the mobile platform as well.

Its very - VERY - disapointing it have lower power usage than SB and better idle battery life time. Everyone expected it should be even lower and better.

The OEM will not buy this chip - EVER. Therefore AMD will be forced to sell this on the desktop retail market for 30usd.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Is this real life?

lol. No, this is AnandTech, a fantasy land where everyone has their i7-2600Ks and CrossFired 6990s at 100% load 24/7.

Llano is not supposed to compete with SB

Llano is not supposed to be a gaming platform

Llano is not AMD's flagship CPU

Llano is supposed to a mid-low end CPU which offers a decent integrated GPU and above all is power-efficient. This thing is going to kill in the laptop market due to it's power efficiency and GPU performance. A person who uses their laptop/computer for light gaming,browsing the web, and HTPC type stuff this thing is awesome, for us power users we have to wait for Bulldozer.

Some of the responses here are childish and immature.

Not to mention just plain stupid.

The vast majority of consumers use either years-old systems or modern budget systems. Most of the people who buy mid- to high-end systems don't even utilize what their computers are capable of, they're either buying high-end stuff because of prestige or to avoid having to buy a computer more than twice per decade.

Llano is meant to do one thing: provide a more compelling all-around computing experience for the average consumer. Not the average AnandTech forum participant. I think it does that admirably. Intel's second-gen i3 CPUs are far, far more CPU muscle than the average user needs, and no, that's not going to change anytime soon. I've put together scores and scores of Stars-CPU systems and no one - no one - complains that they're too slow. I regularly ask people if they can tell the difference between an i3 and an Athlon II system and let them try them out side by side. They usually can't.

OT: Stop telling us you are putting people on ignore, no one cares.

lol. No ****!



Profanity is not allowed in the technical forums.

Moderator jvroig

 

[-Slacker-]

I agree with everything you have said.

The fact is you can get a laptop with faster GPU performance and CPU performance for $700-750 on the Intel side:

i5 480 + HD5730 for $700:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834246003

i5 480 + GT 540M (which beat 6620 in almost every gaming benchmark in this review) for $700:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834115987

i5 480 + HD6550M for $700:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834215095

i5 2410 + GT 540M for $750:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834215110

Every single one of these provides faster CPU & GPU performance (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html)

So Llano A-8 would need to be less than $700. So imho, AMD is going to make the most significant market share gains in the $500 to below $700 laptop space by attracting users who aren't willing to spend $700 on a laptop but still want some acceptable budget gaming GPU for WoW and Sims.

Hmm ... I was going to say something about the possible use of core i7s 920 in the AT preview, but those newegg prices look like extremely tough competition, at any rate.


Then again, there's also this:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/h...md-llano-apus/

looks like HP will be selling APU notebooks starting as low as $450

the price to performance ratio in this case is pretty good

So yeah, guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Kingkazma]

just... get sandybridge+ discrete.

really, if you're gonna game, stay away from Llano