Anyone else VERY underwhelmed with Llano's GPU performance?

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Alot of people use laptops as desktop replacements now and do use them for productivity tasks. Both my parents recently bought laptops to replace there desktops, my dad to use for work(mostly database) and my mom uses hers for school(shes a teacher, uses photoshop alot and does a fair bit of graphics work on it)

Replacing a desktop that probably wasn't very fast to begin with won't be difficult with Llano. If they were using Core 2 Duo desktops this is faster in multi-threaded tasks. If it were something like a Core 2 Quad the 3530MX should be around the same speed as the Core 2 Quad Q8200.

And maybe you're forgetting the fact that many apps are GPU accelerated. That, and remember: these will be in $500-700 laptops. Real desktop replacements are $1000+.

 

[Rifter]

Replacing a desktop that probably wasn't very fast to begin with won't be difficult with Llano. If they were using Core 2 Duo desktops this is faster in multi-threaded tasks. If it were something like a Core 2 Quad the 3530MX should be around the same speed as the Core 2 Quad Q8200.

And maybe you're forgetting the fact that many apps are GPU accelerated. That, and remember: these will be in $500-700 laptops. Real desktop replacements are $1000+.

yeah, like i said a few posts back pricing will be very important.

 

[Stoneburner]

I am curious if advanced integrated GPU's will finally allow upgradable notebooks. Maybe amd will keep their platforms consistent enough so that popping in a new Fusion 1 year down the line will give you a cpu/gpu boost?

This would very much please me.

 

[iCyborg]

Alot of people use laptops as desktop replacements now and do use them for productivity tasks. Both my parents recently bought laptops to replace there desktops, my dad to use for work(mostly database) and my mom uses hers for school(shes a teacher, uses photoshop alot and does a fair bit of graphics work on it)

Since laptops aren't for gaming, and a lot of people use laptops as desktop replacements, it would follow that desktops aren't for gaming either then. So, consoles only then?

2600K@4.5GHz with a 2560x1600 screen is loads better for work/productivity type of things than i3/i5 laptops with 1366x768. I could say this means they aren't for "productivity tasks". I'm not though, but that's basically your argument on the GPU side. It's almost like some people feel the GPU market should be IGPs and 560/6950 and above. Llano may not be great for gaming, but it beats most (or all?) consoles in CPU+GPU power, and these seem to be doing all right.


Also, to the guy above who said 480p is the same as 1080p on 15". It may be, but it's not the same on a 50" HDTV, and a lot of people would appreciate being able to connect laptop to a TV instead of using a clunky desktop, or buying yet another machine to serve as a HTPC.

 

[iCyborg]

I am curious if advanced integrated GPU's will finally allow upgradable notebooks. Maybe amd will keep their platforms consistent enough so that popping in a new Fusion 1 year down the line will give you a cpu/gpu boost?

This would very much please me.

I doubt this will happen with the next one (Trinity) since they are switching from K10.5 to Bulldozer for the CPU part

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

yeah, like i said a few posts back pricing will be very important.

Definitely. Go into $800 and higher and the situation will look a lot harder for Llano. Personally, since I have already have a 15" laptop with a Core 2 Duo T9600 @3.2GHz and a GeForce GTX 260M, I won't really be looking into this since I'll gain a bit more computing power but lose graphics power.

We haven't discussed the A4 and I fear for AMD that it may cut into their own Brazos market. The prices I've been talking so far have been for low-end A6 and high-end A4 for $500. Lower than that, we should have the other A4. Now, it should have around 2x higher IPC than Brazos, not to mention clock speeds are higher as well. The GPU should be more than 2x faster, too. If there's a low-end A4 laptop coming out in the $400 range that's 11-13", it would be very tempting as a secondary laptop.

 

[Blitzvogel]

I am curious if advanced integrated GPU's will finally allow upgradable notebooks. Maybe amd will keep their platforms consistent enough so that popping in a new Fusion 1 year down the line will give you a cpu/gpu boost?

This would very much please me.

I hear that CPUs in notebooks are often soldered into their sockets to prevent such tinkering. I would think any of the "cheaper" OEMs like HP would take this course of action. Thankfully, my Asus G52 chasis is not one of those, but I won't be installing a new CPU in it ever when it's unnecessary and ridiculously costly.

 

[Rifter]

Since laptops aren't for gaming, and a lot of people use laptops as desktop replacements, it would follow that desktops aren't for gaming either then. So, consoles only then?

2600K@4.5GHz with a 2560x1600 screen is loads better for work/productivity type of things than i3/i5 laptops with 1366x768. I could say this means they aren't for "productivity tasks". I'm not though, but that's basically your argument on the GPU side. It's almost like some people feel the GPU market should be IGPs and 560/6950 and above. Llano may not be great for gaming, but it beats most (or all?) consoles in CPU+GPU power, and these seem to be doing all right.


Also, to the guy above who said 480p is the same as 1080p on 15". It may be, but it's not the same on a 50" HDTV, and a lot of people would appreciate being able to connect laptop to a TV instead of using a clunky desktop, or buying yet another machine to serve as a HTPC.

I was talking about people that dont game anyways, such as my parents. Obviously if you do game you wont be buying a laptop as a desktop replacement.

 

[dac7nco]

Also, to the guy above who said 480p is the same as 1080p on 15". It may be, but it's not the same on a 50" HDTV, and a lot of people would appreciate being able to connect laptop to a TV instead of using a clunky desktop, or buying yet another machine to serve as a HTPC.

I've known a few people that like to half-ass things as well. I can understand a laptop doing double-duty with a decent monitor and keyboard/mouse, but I doubt a gaming laptop has ever been built which brought a net gain to it's parent corporation. Llano may make gaming on a laptop tolerable performance wise, but the ergonomics make it nearly certain to be a niche product. If the performance approached a GTX460, I'd be more enthusiastic.

I guess I was hoping for a lot more from Llano than an impressive IGP mated to a horrid, dinosaur of a CPU.

Daimon

 

[Nemesis 1]

Not enough to be in a higher market tier. It's 20% faster on multi-threaded apps, big whoop. The fact that this is your only argument says a lot. The Radeon HD 6620G is 2x faster than the Intel HD 3000, yet you never mention that. You're clearly biased

There is not 1 person here that doesn't know I am biased towards AMD . Not one I have always admitted that fact.
But I do get A little upset when someone is just as bias as me. Points finger at me . Unlike you Itook the time to average the % in productivity and its more than 20%. Also you say llano is 2x SB ipg . when AT article says says 56% . IF andy was going to use 1866 memory on a llano he should have done the same on a mobile SB IGP and overclocked the SBigp .
Its fine that he did it but It wasn't right to show it with stock SB with 1300 memory
Than if he going to show that with those results he should have included battery life.

Or was this desktop llano . In which case it doesn't matter as a discrete gpu is still the answer for gamers . AS og right now only SB is a gamers choice. Quiksyn. is something llano doesn't have .

Thats another thing AT left out of this review(cough) Was in productivity work . Battery life comparred to work completed. LLano can have longer battery but because of productivity still be the loser in the end . But if your only buying a lappy to game ya llano fits that small small niche market

 

[yottabit]

How do you think Llano's mobile GPU would compare to my aged Mobility Radeon HD 3450?
http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-3450.9593.0.html

 

[Arkadrel]

How do you think Llano's mobile GPU would compare to my aged Mobility Radeon HD 3450?
http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-3450.9593.0.html

Radeon HD3450 on avg scores ~1931 in 3Dmark 06' (from the link you posted).
A Llano OCed to 3.7ghz can score ~10,500 in 3Dmark 06'.

A 35watt (A8-3500M) (stock) scores like ~6,700 (ddr3-1333).

So its probably 3-4x times as fast as your HD3450 laptop (GPU wise).

With how big a impact drivers can have on games.... and your HD-3450 being kinda old, it probably wont have the best optimised drivers for newer games. So im gonna go out on a limb and say the A8-3500M will probably be more than 3-4times as fast as your Laptops GPU.

 

[iCyborg]

I was talking about people that dont game anyways, such as my parents. Obviously if you do game you wont be buying a laptop as a desktop replacement.

If I look at myself and people around me, for about 90% of them, the most demanding applications they use are games. Encoding is demanding too, but a difference between 20 and 30 mins is pretty meaningless to me since I'm not staring at the screen waiting for it to finish. Even for software development/office work the biggest difference in productivity comes from SSD + large hi-res screen (or even better, 2+ of those). I'm not sure what your dad does with databases, but running a demanding database server/application isn't a common thing for your average consumer.

On "PC Gaming" people bitch about consoles affecting PC games by not pushing the hardware enough, and here you're bitching about what was mainstream performance 1-2 years ago as not being suitable for *any* kind of gaming. For sure it's not for hardcore gaming at 1080p or higher, but there are casual/light gamers or those on budget out there as well. How many people play WoW? That game came out in 2005 when no cards were more powerful than Llano APU.
I personally prefer a fast desktop for the same money as a mediocre laptop, but apparently a lot of people want laptops for mobility, often more 'just in case' than for some real need, and aren't willing or can't afford to buy desktops too.

 

[iCyborg]

I've known a few people that like to half-ass things as well. I can understand a laptop doing double-duty with a decent monitor and keyboard/mouse, but I doubt a gaming laptop has ever been built which brought a net gain to it's parent corporation. Llano may make gaming on a laptop tolerable performance wise, but the ergonomics make it nearly certain to be a niche product. If the performance approached a GTX460, I'd be more enthusiastic.

I guess I was hoping for a lot more from Llano than an impressive IGP mated to a horrid, dinosaur of a CPU.

Daimon

I was talking about playing video on HDTV here, not gaming, since that's what the post I quoted was talking about...

They have significantly improved battery life compared to previous generations and it matches SB. AMD has better graphics and they're playing that card so at the same TDP they give you impressive IGP and slower CPU while Intel gives you impressive CPU + slower IGP. It'd be great if AMD could deliver SB performance + great IGP at the same TDP as SB, but let's be realistic here, Intel knows its business too.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I was talking about playing video on HDTV here, not gaming, since that's what the post I quoted was talking about...

They have significantly improved battery life compared to previous generations and it matches SB. AMD has better graphics and they're playing that card so at the same TDP they give you impressive IGP and slower CPU while Intel gives you impressive CPU + slower IGP. It'd be great if AMD could deliver SB performance + great IGP at the same TDP as SB, but let's be realistic here, Intel knows its business too.

I definitely agree, but I think AMD played it well because the CPU disparity in Llano compared to Sandy Bridge is lower than the GPU disparity in Sandy Bridge compared to Llano.

 

[tweakboy]

You want a fast video card and disable the onboard video.

CPU will never be what a GPU is ,, vice versa,,,