AreaCode707
Lifer
- Sep 21, 2001
- 18,447
- 133
- 106
This short and extrodinary group of phrases may be the singularly most unsupported set of statements I've ever seen collected in one place. *sniff* The absence of evidence is just so beautiful.
This short and extrodinary group of phrases may be the singularly most unsupported set of statements I've ever seen collected in one place. *sniff* The absence of evidence is just so beautiful.
Some of us don't have to make a choice. 
I'm happy either way.
First off, long post, f-off if you will be pissed if you get to the end and don't feel it was worth reading.
My believe is it's nature and nurture. Genetics and hormones during pregnancy result in a less definitive sexuality, or a tendency to be one way or the other (or the other other, or nowadays the 3 or 4 others). This applies to straights as well. During childhood, experiences may push subconsciously and uncontrollably in one direction or the other, either reinforcing het or homo. Depending on genetics and pregnancy environment, one may already be more inclined towards homo, but naturally there's a far greater tendency to be inclined towards hetero, and maybe not inclined definitively one way or the other. That last group is the kind that I feel become the "turned gay" type, due to traumatization of one kind or another; there was always the potential there, but they'd learned growing up that they should like the opposite sex, and just never thought about liking the same sex. They might as easily have just been bisexual. Of course there may also be a small percentage who actually did just turn gay and were totally straight before, if the trauma was bad enough, but I imagine that is exceedingly rare, to completely change one's perceptions of the same sex. I don't believe that anyone who is in fact fully heterosexual and otherwise normal can simply decide to be gay. The very fact that they could look at someone of the same sex in a sexual way and be interested indicates there's already some inclination that way.
Being gay is not defined by who you have sex with. Even the Catholic Church said that being gay is not a sin, it's acting on the feelings that is a sin. Celibate people aren't asexual. Guys passing as straight who are actually attracted to men aren't straight. People who "turned gay" probably are gay within their own heads, but might become straight again if the trauma was worked through (or perhaps bisexual now that they realize that the same sex is attractive, or they may be disgusted with themselves for being gay).
I don't think I'd bother to change myself if I could. I haven't had any problems because of my sexuality specifically, although arguments occasionally are tiring against people who just can't think outside their predefined notions. I was pretty weird anyway, this thing was peanuts in comparison in terms of making people leary of me, and already not involved socially with most people for other reasons, never part of a clique but also not picked on except for being small. Since it doesn't cause me any problems, there's no particular incentive to become straight (or gay for that matter), and there's nothing about being straight that's inherently better than not being so, if concern about acceptance or what people think aren't an issue. I certainly don't CARE if people think there's something wrong with me or that I'm going to Hell, so long as both of us are respectful in any interaction and don't allow irrelevancies to interfere.
I'm sure in my life I'll come across people who won't associate with me because of this, or who may actively dislike me or even want to hurt me, but that can be said about many aspects of a person's personality and behavior. Heck, you can get the crap beaten out of you for liking the wrong sports team after a hotly contested game.
In hindsight I know I've been this way since I was about 8. It consciously began to assert itself around 13, and it was only when I was 16 that it dawned on me what my feelings meant, that it had a word and wasn't just what other people felt. There was some small amount of self-doubt over it, thinking something was wrong with it, but shortly that all passed, and I've been perfectly happy with it since. I haven't tried to conceal it actively, I just don't mention it to people who don't have any reason to know or care. If it comes up somehow, great, maybe they'll be able to set me up with a friend.
I am highly offended by militants and gays who feel they need to flaunt it continuously and push it into the faces of straight people. Be feminine, be flashy, whatever, straight people can be that way too, but do it because it's YOU, not because you feel you need to make sure everybody knows you're gay, because you actually doubt yourself and are trying to hide it behind bravado. I despise the fact that a very small minority of gays are so vocal and outrageous that they're considered standard examples of all gays, and that some groups push so hard for things beyond simple acceptance, and lack of active discrimination and the same protections and rights as straights. Too many flaming gays who act it out in public would prefer that it be made illegal to even THINK that there's something wrong with it, even if it has no effect in any way on their lives and that other person is actually accepting and just considers it a personal flaw like any other.
I'm happy either way.First off, long post, f-off if you will be pissed if you get to the end and don't feel it was worth reading.
My believe is it's nature and nurture. Genetics and hormones during pregnancy result in a less definitive sexuality, or a tendency to be one way or the other (or the other other, or nowadays the 3 or 4 others). This applies to straights as well. During childhood, experiences may push subconsciously and uncontrollably in one direction or the other, either reinforcing het or homo. Depending on genetics and pregnancy environment, one may already be more inclined towards homo, but naturally there's a far greater tendency to be inclined towards hetero, and maybe not inclined definitively one way or the other. That last group is the kind that I feel become the "turned gay" type, due to traumatization of one kind or another; there was always the potential there, but they'd learned growing up that they should like the opposite sex, and just never thought about liking the same sex. They might as easily have just been bisexual. Of course there may also be a small percentage who actually did just turn gay and were totally straight before, if the trauma was bad enough, but I imagine that is exceedingly rare, to completely change one's perceptions of the same sex. I don't believe that anyone who is in fact fully heterosexual and otherwise normal can simply decide to be gay. The very fact that they could look at someone of the same sex in a sexual way and be interested indicates there's already some inclination that way.
Being gay is not defined by who you have sex with. Even the Catholic Church said that being gay is not a sin, it's acting on the feelings that is a sin. Celibate people aren't asexual. Guys passing as straight who are actually attracted to men aren't straight. People who "turned gay" probably are gay within their own heads, but might become straight again if the trauma was worked through (or perhaps bisexual now that they realize that the same sex is attractive, or they may be disgusted with themselves for being gay).
I don't think I'd bother to change myself if I could. I haven't had any problems because of my sexuality specifically, although arguments occasionally are tiring against people who just can't think outside their predefined notions. I was pretty weird anyway, this thing was peanuts in comparison in terms of making people leary of me, and already not involved socially with most people for other reasons, never part of a clique but also not picked on except for being small. Since it doesn't cause me any problems, there's no particular incentive to become straight (or gay for that matter), and there's nothing about being straight that's inherently better than not being so, if concern about acceptance or what people think aren't an issue. I certainly don't CARE if people think there's something wrong with me or that I'm going to Hell, so long as both of us are respectful in any interaction and don't allow irrelevancies to interfere.
I'm sure in my life I'll come across people who won't associate with me because of this, or who may actively dislike me or even want to hurt me, but that can be said about many aspects of a person's personality and behavior. Heck, you can get the crap beaten out of you for liking the wrong sports team after a hotly contested game.
In hindsight I know I've been this way since I was about 8. It consciously began to assert itself around 13, and it was only when I was 16 that it dawned on me what my feelings meant, that it had a word and wasn't just what other people felt. There was some small amount of self-doubt over it, thinking something was wrong with it, but shortly that all passed, and I've been perfectly happy with it since. I haven't tried to conceal it actively, I just don't mention it to people who don't have any reason to know or care. If it comes up somehow, great, maybe they'll be able to set me up with a friend.
I am highly offended by militants and gays who feel they need to flaunt it continuously and push it into the faces of straight people. Be feminine, be flashy, whatever, straight people can be that way too, but do it because it's YOU, not because you feel you need to make sure everybody knows you're gay, because you actually doubt yourself and are trying to hide it behind bravado. I despise the fact that a very small minority of gays are so vocal and outrageous that they're considered standard examples of all gays, and that some groups push so hard for things beyond simple acceptance, and lack of active discrimination and the same protections and rights as straights. Too many flaming gays who act it out in public would prefer that it be made illegal to even THINK that there's something wrong with it, even if it has no effect in any way on their lives and that other person is actually accepting and just considers it a personal flaw like any other.
- Jun 10, 2004
- 14,608
- 6,094
- 136
If they are exclusively homosexual their genes are not passed on. Doesn't that make you think that there's more to this than genes? It's funny that the same left wing which wants free choice/will in every other area (abortion, etc.) claims that being homosexual is not a choice.
Disclaimer: I have no political affiliations.
Crazee
Elite Member
- Nov 20, 2001
- 5,736
- 0
- 76
Your argument is severly flawed. Many people die of childhood genetic diseases all the time, but the diseases are still around. By your argument these diseases would cure themselves because everyone who got the genes dies before giving birth to someone else. Genetics doesn't work that way. You have dominant and recessive genes. A person can carry the recessive gene for a trait and it not show in them until they mate with someone else who has that recessive gene as well. Their offspring would have a greater chance of displaying the recessive gene, but even then it would not be guaranteed.
Since when are those people telling others that they're not allowed to be gay? The "choice" of abortion is not a matter of whether you inherently want to have an abortion or not, it's a conscious decision to take an action. Saying being gay is not a choice is not the same thing at all. They're saying that being gay is not a choice, and that therefore those who think it is a choice are wrong, because they wish to make it so that you're not "allowed" to be gay, just as they want abortion not to be allowed. The "choice" in terms of being gay is the choice of whether to accept yourself and live your life as you are inclined, or to conceal it and suppress it. The other side wants there to be no choice at all.
Not to mention the simple fact of people who are gay often still having children simply because it was a societal need. Even in primitive times, if you had a small population, even the gay ones would probably have mated for reproduction. Then in more civilized times, people simply acting straight or bisexual even if they weren't because that was just the accepted and expected behavior at the time (like Rome). And in modern times, acting straight out of fear. The genetics obviously still play a huge role since it still survives in animals, but I wonder if there might be fewer gays today if societal factors hadn't been involved, if gays had been free to simply be gay and didn't reproduce.
I think it's due to something like a mutation in the genes, possibly one passed on recessively, and not something that is directly passed on. Like another poster said, there are genes that are responsible for thing such as sterility, yet those genes don't go away just because those that are afflicted with the symptoms don't get to reproduce.
And I am TOTALLY not liberal. Just read my posts. I'm definitely not a holy rolling Republican, and I'm not a socialist liberal.
Mutations do get passed on. Unless you don't believe in evolution. And even if you don't, that's a demonstrable fact.
Exactly.
Then again, some people don't believe in evolution, and believe that the Earth is only a few thousand years old. Some people just don't believe in science or logic.
Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
Some of us don't have to make a choice.
First off, long post, f-off if you will be pissed if you get to the end and don't feel it was worth reading.
My believe is it's nature and nurture. Genetics and hormones during pregnancy result in a less definitive sexuality, or a tendency to be one way or the other (or the other other, or nowadays the 3 or 4 others). This applies to straights as well. During childhood, experiences may push subconsciously and uncontrollably in one direction or the other, either reinforcing het or homo. Depending on genetics and pregnancy environment, one may already be more inclined towards homo, but naturally there's a far greater tendency to be inclined towards hetero, and maybe not inclined definitively one way or the other. That last group is the kind that I feel become the "turned gay" type, due to traumatization of one kind or another; there was always the potential there, but they'd learned growing up that they should like the opposite sex, and just never thought about liking the same sex. They might as easily have just been bisexual. Of course there may also be a small percentage who actually did just turn gay and were totally straight before, if the trauma was bad enough, but I imagine that is exceedingly rare, to completely change one's perceptions of the same sex. I don't believe that anyone who is in fact fully heterosexual and otherwise normal can simply decide to be gay. The very fact that they could look at someone of the same sex in a sexual way and be interested indicates there's already some inclination that way.
Being gay is not defined by who you have sex with. Even the Catholic Church said that being gay is not a sin, it's acting on the feelings that is a sin. Celibate people aren't asexual. Guys passing as straight who are actually attracted to men aren't straight. People who "turned gay" probably are gay within their own heads, but might become straight again if the trauma was worked through (or perhaps bisexual now that they realize that the same sex is attractive, or they may be disgusted with themselves for being gay).
I don't think I'd bother to change myself if I could. I haven't had any problems because of my sexuality specifically, although arguments occasionally are tiring against people who just can't think outside their predefined notions. I was pretty weird anyway, this thing was peanuts in comparison in terms of making people leary of me, and already not involved socially with most people for other reasons, never part of a clique but also not picked on except for being small. Since it doesn't cause me any problems, there's no particular incentive to become straight (or gay for that matter), and there's nothing about being straight that's inherently better than not being so, if concern about acceptance or what people think aren't an issue. I certainly don't CARE if people think there's something wrong with me or that I'm going to Hell, so long as both of us are respectful in any interaction and don't allow irrelevancies to interfere.
I'm sure in my life I'll come across people who won't associate with me because of this, or who may actively dislike me or even want to hurt me, but that can be said about many aspects of a person's personality and behavior. Heck, you can get the crap beaten out of you for liking the wrong sports team after a hotly contested game.
In hindsight I know I've been this way since I was about 8. It consciously began to assert itself around 13, and it was only when I was 16 that it dawned on me what my feelings meant, that it had a word and wasn't just what other people felt. There was some small amount of self-doubt over it, thinking something was wrong with it, but shortly that all passed, and I've been perfectly happy with it since. I haven't tried to conceal it actively, I just don't mention it to people who don't have any reason to know or care. If it comes up somehow, great, maybe they'll be able to set me up with a friend.
I am highly offended by militants and gays who feel they need to flaunt it continuously and push it into the faces of straight people. Be feminine, be flashy, whatever, straight people can be that way too, but do it because it's YOU, not because you feel you need to make sure everybody knows you're gay, because you actually doubt yourself and are trying to hide it behind bravado. I despise the fact that a very small minority of gays are so vocal and outrageous that they're considered standard examples of all gays, and that some groups push so hard for things beyond simple acceptance, and lack of active discrimination and the same protections and rights as straights. Too many flaming gays who act it out in public would prefer that it be made illegal to even THINK that there's something wrong with it, even if it has no effect in any way on their lives and that other person is actually accepting and just considers it a personal flaw like any other.
This is exactly what I think about Religion. It seems like a lot of people on this forum and in the world use fundamentalists and religious nuts as a referance to the rest of the religious population. I consider myself as a religious person, but I do not associate myself with people who take the Bible literally. Only a small percentage of the religous population are extremists. Btw, I agree with what you just posted too.
I strongly believe that you are entitled to your own opinion even though I disagree with you, but if you're going to say things like this, maybe you should back it up with something to keep this discussion going. Btw, this thread has been very intellectual and I think that the people involved in this discussion should be proud of themselves.
AgaBoogaBoo
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2003
- 26,108
- 5
- 81
TheSlamma
Diamond Member
- Sep 6, 2005
- 7,625
- 5
- 81
I don't choose what girls get me riled up... but I can sure tell you this, it is impossible for me to wake up in the morning and go.. "You know what, I think I'm gonna like men today instead"
It's very simple actually but most christians are trained like 6 year oldsso we forgive you
uberman
Golden Member
- Sep 15, 2006
- 1,942
- 1
- 81
I am not gay (don't ask my former colleague though), but I have recently moved in with a couple of homosexuals and another fella on the main floor. I honestly do say that it struck me a little odd that I would be roommates with a couple of homosexuals. Having moved in, it's not any different than being with roommates with any other straight couples. They are very kind, curteous, and considerate people like many others you'll meet. For me, what they do behind closed doors is their business, not mine.
Although some sexual comments they've made did get me to think "eewww!!", haha! But it's all good.
This is a good experience and really did open my eyes as to how myself and others can be so narrow minded sometimes.
Although some sexual comments they've made did get me to think "eewww!!", haha! But it's all good.
This is a good experience and really did open my eyes as to how myself and others can be so narrow minded sometimes.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter