Marinski
Golden Member
I think that most gays are not born gay but develop the attraction for the same sex as they mature. But, some gays are born different physically, then develop the gayness emotionally and psychologically.
scott916
Platinum Member
- Mar 2, 2005
- 2,906
- 0
- 71
Oppression of gay americans is truly one of the saddest aspects of our society, IMO. Although I myself am not gay, I do have a gay cousin and I have seen the effects of ignorance on people close to me.
If anyone remembers the transgender teacher Dana Rivers that came out with his true feelings around 1999-2000, he was a teacher of mine in High School. Mr. Warfield (Rivers) was the best teacher I have ever had, bar none. He was incredibly intelligent, understanding, and truthful, and had more impact on the lives of the kids that he taught than anyone I have ever met.
When it was revealed that he was transgendered, his image and reputation were put through the wringer, with Bible thumping parents speaking out about the atrocities of letting such a person influence their children, with no care in the world about his career or feelings. They spoke down about how he would somehow change kids into "queers", when all he had done is show people the fundamental greatness of the human spirit. It was truly sad to see the anger and fear that such an issue put into the hearts of parents. Although they believed they were acting in the best interests of their children, all they did was propogate the ignorance that seems to be sadly so prevalent in our society.
He lost his career, his life, his wife, and a great deal of the people around him. I know staff members who called him one of their best friends before they found out he was a transgendered man, and now abhorred him and labeled him a freak and a disgusting person. I truly admire him, he had the courage to stand up and show his true feelings to all, even though he had to know the consequences. I can only hope we can move as a society and as the entire human race towards a world where we can at least realize that people who are born a certain way are simply that, and not sick freaks who make this choice and are out to harm others.
If anyone remembers the transgender teacher Dana Rivers that came out with his true feelings around 1999-2000, he was a teacher of mine in High School. Mr. Warfield (Rivers) was the best teacher I have ever had, bar none. He was incredibly intelligent, understanding, and truthful, and had more impact on the lives of the kids that he taught than anyone I have ever met.
When it was revealed that he was transgendered, his image and reputation were put through the wringer, with Bible thumping parents speaking out about the atrocities of letting such a person influence their children, with no care in the world about his career or feelings. They spoke down about how he would somehow change kids into "queers", when all he had done is show people the fundamental greatness of the human spirit. It was truly sad to see the anger and fear that such an issue put into the hearts of parents. Although they believed they were acting in the best interests of their children, all they did was propogate the ignorance that seems to be sadly so prevalent in our society.
He lost his career, his life, his wife, and a great deal of the people around him. I know staff members who called him one of their best friends before they found out he was a transgendered man, and now abhorred him and labeled him a freak and a disgusting person. I truly admire him, he had the courage to stand up and show his true feelings to all, even though he had to know the consequences. I can only hope we can move as a society and as the entire human race towards a world where we can at least realize that people who are born a certain way are simply that, and not sick freaks who make this choice and are out to harm others.
AreaCode707
Lifer
- Sep 21, 2001
- 18,447
- 133
- 106
I dunno, with a post like that, I think he might be an official member of the "I'm a master of sarcasm and have suckered the collective mind of ATOT" crew. His comments are just too much of a stereotype...
What those people were saying about the people who died on 911 and the people who died in Iraq was just fvcking tasteless, how can anybody say that?
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,600
- 1,005
- 126
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
You know what I don't understand. Why do people make excuses for homosexuals? Last time I checked people choose who they want to sleep with. Or did I miss something? Being gay is a choice, plain and simple. Sexual behavior is a choice plain and simple. Next we'll have perverts saying they can't help it they were born that way.
there is a difference between "being gay" and "sexual behavior" so why are you conflating the two? you can be straight, or gay, and never engage in any kind of sexual behavior other than masturbation. You are still straight or gay (or, for a smaller number of people, bisexual) even if you are a virgin. when people say being gay is not a choice, they are talking about who someone is attracted to. That is not a choice. The choice lies in whether you are going to pretend to be heterosexual or be true to your own attractions and desires.
edit: sure it is possible to choose to stay in the closet your entire life, and never have a sexual relationship with someone you are genuinely attracted to. However that is probably not the recipe for a happy, healthy life. I would say a meaningful and fulfilled life requires that you become what you are, not spend a lifetime pretending to be someone you are not.
Again I disagree and here is why. Even though what you said has some truth to it, the problem with that kind of thinking is it is void of responsibility. I am married and if I am attracted to another person I still have to make the decision not to pursue a relationship outside of my marriage. The only way a person can justify homosexuality is if they find nothing abnormal about it, thats the only way. Because being gay is no different than a person choosing to be baptist or catholic.
Every person on this planet is faced with personal choices everyday and wanting to get it on with a person of the same gender is no different then the temptations others faced. And thus should not be excused as being acceptable because you want no responsibility. If you wanna be gay then be gay, but stop with the bs of being born that way. There is cute a spanish honey at work I would like to tag, so I gues I'll do the deed then tell my wife I was born to have multiple women. I am sure that will get me some leeway.
Why does it have to be "snap your fingers"? Isn't that stereotyping??? Not that there's anything wrong with that.....
bob4432
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2003
- 11,727
- 46
- 91
sure you choose what person you would like to be with sexually, but you don't choose what gender gets you excited. even though you would like to tag this little latin honey at your work and that is a choice, and that is what gets you going, and you don't really have a choice that women get you going just as gay people don't have a choice that the same genger gets them going.
I don't see how being gay is a choice. There is this attraction I feel when I look at a women, something that isn't there when I look at a man. It isn't necessary sexual, but it isn't a choice either. I just "feel" that way. My brain was "programmed" that way at some point.
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing a heterosexual women feels the same thing when they look at a man. For a homosexual, their brain was just programmed at some point to feel that towards the same sex. There isn't anything wrong with it and it certainly wasn't their choice.
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing a heterosexual women feels the same thing when they look at a man. For a homosexual, their brain was just programmed at some point to feel that towards the same sex. There isn't anything wrong with it and it certainly wasn't their choice.
Stop talking that way. You'll shatter all of our fantasies that women always want to make out with other women.
And Jenna Jameson is fugly.
I was born blond. Even if I color my hair and tell people I'm brunette, I'm still blonde in reality. If I wear lifts in my shoes, I'm still short. If I dress as a woman and live a woman's life, I'm still a male. (I won't even get into the transgender thing.) I'm white and born in the Southern US; if I get a tan and learn Spanish, I'm not actually a latino.
If I choose to live a straight lifestyle and only have sex with women, and suppress any urges towards men, that still wouldn't make me straight just because I decided to live that way. There IS a difference between how you CHOOSE to live after considering the options and how it will make you feel and affect your life, you can either live the way you feel, or deny the feelings and live the opposite way, but that doesn't negate the feelings, and in the innate feelings are what are used to apply a description. Gay means inside, you really are attracted to men and not women. It does not define who you actually sleep with.
Whether or not you agree is irrelevant. What I said was a statement of fact, not an expression of opinion. People do not consciously choose what gender they are attracted to. That is a Fact.
If you have an agreement with your partner that you will be monogamous, then for you to sleep with a co-worker is a violation of that agreement. So it is a betrayal of your partner's or wife's trust. Such a situation cannot (sensibly!) be compared with a gay person's decision to have gay sex or enter into a gay relationship. Unlike you cheating on your partner or wife (which is a betrayal of trust and morally inappropriate on those grounds) there is nothing morally wrong with having gay sex or being in a gay relationship. No-one's trust is betrayed, no one is hurt or damaged. Indeed, the well-being of the gay person is enhanced through healthy romantic or sexual ralationships, just as heterosexual people experience greater health and happiness when they are in healthy relationships.
From a statistical point of view, homosexuality is merely a normally occurring variation of human sexuality. It is no more "abnormal" than being left-handed.
All arguments that homosexual sex is per se somehow immoral come from the Bible. (Or rather, come from particular interpretations or misinterpretations of the Bible).
That is false. No-one chooses their sexual orientation. There is NO - zero, nada - evidence that humans consciously choose their sexual orientation. OTOH deciding to align oneself with a particular religion in adulthood is OBVIOUSLY a conscious choice.
A better analogy would be to compare sexual orientation with hand preference. No one makes a conscious decision to be left-handeded. Some people just seem to be that way. You can force instinctively left-handed children to learn to write with their right hand, but it is never entirely comfortable for them to do so and most people would agree forcing individuals to write with their non-dominant hand is a cruel thing to do.
Seeing as there is nothing intrinsically immoral about having sex with someone of the same gender, I do wonder what exactly needs to be excused here?
As for responsibility, I think you will find gay people are no less likely to accept responsbility for their sexual choices than are straight people.
I believe I was born with a homosexual sexual orientation. Me saying I did not choose to be gay is not "bs" - it is just the truth. If you want to cheat on your partner or wife, then go ahead and do it. But please don't compare your immoral (untrustworthy) behavior with my consensual, respectful sexual relationships with people of my own gender (which by the way don't involve any lying or betrayal of trust).
I suspect gay guys are more likely to be able to experience pleasure from action in their backyard as well as their front compared to straights. Twice as much active sex equipment = huge advantage. I'm bi, personally, so I suppose I can't speak for either team.
Someone higher up mentioned not having to put up with PMSing SOs as well, heh.
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
Having sex is a choice, sure, but who you are attracted to sexually is something you have no control over.
I ask you, why do you have sex with women (if you do) and not men? Why are you attracted to women?
I really don't like the perverts versus homosexuals comparison. I don't feel they are comparable.
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