And there goes Countrywide....

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: Skoorb
My mortgage is through them. If htey go belly up, is the note terminated? I know the answer is no

They will sell your mortgage to a new holder and raise your payment rate.

You obviously are too ignorant to be discussing this topic. The terms of the note don't change when the mortgage is sold.

heh i was wondering about that. I was going to ask how they can raise his rates.did'nt think it was legal.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: rchiu
Your example don't make sense. Mortgage company don't own the house, they own the loan the home owner took out to buy the house. the house is the collateral. So the declining house value doesn't impact the mortgage company, unless people starting to default on their loans. And like I said, most home owners would not default unless they took out ARM because they are paying the same regardless of what the property value is.

And why should I worry about my house value tanking? It's still worth more than when I purchased it 10 years ago, my mortgage payment is much less than what I'd pay for rent, and my interest payment is still tax deductible. In other word, my home ownership is still the better financial decision compare to renting a place. And also like any long term investment, why should I worry about temporary pricing at a particular moment?

You are wrong, my friend. I tried to explain it to you to no avail. I hope you will take some time to learn about coomercial paper, financial institutions and especially 'margin calls'. Work hard and pay down your mortgage as quickly as you can. I wish you well.

Originally posted by: Corn

Yes, I believe you would be a maroon and a dumbass to "walk away" (read: allow a foreclosure on your credit record) from a house, especially if you had no trouble making the payment, simply because of a negative equity position. Especially if you have a family or any designs of retiring at a reasonable age. Try getting an affordable (especially in today's market) mortgage on a home with a prior foreclosure for say, oh, the next 10 years...... Perhaps you like living in trailers and apartments, or paying more to rent a house than it costs to own one. I guarantee that "walking away" from a negative equity position today via foreclosure will cost you a hell of a lot more over the next decade than the temporary negative equity in the home at the time.

Diff'rent strokes I 'spose.

Fer shure . . .

Hey . . . . in no way am I recommending anyone do this but in three cases during my life (none of which involved me) I've seen real estate prices crater and folks circumstantially in such a negative position where they would have been foolish not to do it.

If I were liviv' on the edge today with a recent (last couple years) ARM that was gettin' ready to balloon and I was upside down way over my head - you bet I'd do it in a heartbeat. And I got a really big problem with a financial institution that would not voluntarily accept my deed in lieu of foreclosure.

Now before yah figure out what type of bum I am I made it a goal early in my life to make as little money for financial institutions as I possibly could in my life. When I've had to borrow money I've worked my a$$ off and paid it down at a rate 200-400% faster than I was obligated to do so. I have no debt, miniscule accrued liabilities (not even 2% of my net worth) and don't believe in credit cards (though I've got one with a $1,200 limit ). I save my money. If I need a new vehicle I save the money to buy it Do yah take cash ??? - lol

I feel lucky and blessed. I've worked very hard not to pay banks tens of thousands of dollars of interest and believe it or not most of them appreciate it. I'm a great risk! They want me to take their money.

So . . . get out of debt as fast as you can, tear up you credit cards, don't buy into the 'consumer nation' (lol) and ride around in a sweet 5yo cruiser from the local police auction!

I'm just like you in many respects. I'm 41 years old and only got one credit card which I use to purchase everything (gotta love points) and pay the balance in full every month. I've been doubling up (or more) on my mortgage payments for the last 8 years (my rate is fixed @ 5.875%) and will have my house paid off before I hit 46 years old. My car note is under 3%. I would never encourage anyone to load up on debt, but there is nothing wrong with leveraging other people's money when they offer to practically give it away.....

What I want to know is why would *anyone* get an ARM mortgage--especially over the last 4 years where fixed rates for 30 years were typically below 6%. I can almost understand getting a 3/1 or 5/1 ARM if you *knew* your home was only temporary but even then I like to err on the side of caution.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's only been the combination of extremely low interest rates and very creative financing that allowed a false demand to bloom outrageously, which, in turn, sent prices thru the sky.

With the Fed returning to reasonable interest rates and now that investors have become leery of MBS paper, false demand ends, with prices necessarily following downward until a more honest equilibrium of supply and demand is achieved...

Which means big losses for some investors, some firms, and some recent home buyers. I'd suspect that the market for homes will continue downward in general until the situation wrt ARM's and interest only loans is resolved over the next few years.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Corn


I'm just like you in many respects. I'm 41 years old and only got one credit card which I use to purchase everything (gotta love points) and pay the balance in full every month. I've been doubling up (or more) on my mortgage payments for the last 8 years (my rate is fixed @ 5.875%) and will have my house paid off before I hit 46 years old. My car note is under 3%. I would never encourage anyone to load up on debt, but there is nothing wrong with leveraging other people's money when they offer to practically give it away.....

What I want to know is why would *anyone* get an ARM mortgage--especially over the last 4 years where fixed rates for 30 years were typically below 6%. I can almost understand getting a 3/1 or 5/1 ARM if you *knew* your home was only temporary but even then I like to err on the side of caution.

LOL, you appear to be my brother from another mother... I don't double up on the mortgage since divorce, but we have the same rate

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Corn
I'm just like you in many respects. I'm 41 years old and only got one credit card which I use to purchase everything (gotta love points) and pay the balance in full every month. I've been doubling up (or more) on my mortgage payments for the last 8 years (my rate is fixed @ 5.875%) and will have my house paid off before I hit 46 years old. My car note is under 3%. I would never encourage anyone to load up on debt, but there is nothing wrong with leveraging other people's money when they offer to practically give it away.....

What I want to know is why would *anyone* get an ARM mortgage--especially over the last 4 years where fixed rates for 30 years were typically below 6%. I can almost understand getting a 3/1 or 5/1 ARM if you *knew* your home was only temporary but even then I like to err on the side of caution.

Um, you sound just like me. And I was the PERFECT candidate for an ARM - especially in the last 4 years. Lets just try some numbers.

Case 1:
[*]$200k mortgage, 30-years fixed at 5.875%, $300/month escrow payments.
[*]Pay it off in 30 years, nothing extra.
[*]Monthly payment: $1483.08.
[*]Paid off in: 30 years.
[*]Total paid (ignoring escrow for fair comparison): $425,904.

Case 2:
[*]$200k mortgage, 30-years fixed at 5.875%, $300/month escrow payments.
[*]Double your payments as you said you do.
[*]Monthly payment: $2966.16 (double from case 1).
[*]Paid off in: 7 years, 10 months.
[*]Total paid (ignoring escrow for fair comparison): $249,859.

Case 3:
[*]$200k mortgage, 5/1 ARM initially fixed at 5.375%, $300/month escrow payments.
[*]Assume worst case scenerio where ARM interest goes up 2% per year after 5 years, thus it becomes 7.375% on year 6, 9.375% on year 7, 11.375% on year 8, etc.
[*]Double your payments as you said you do.
[*]Monthly payment: $2966.16 (double from case 1).
[*]Paid off in: 7 years, 10 months.
[*]Total paid (ignoring escrow for fair comparison): $248,347.

Savings by getting the ARM (case 2 vs case 3): $1512. And this is the very worst case scenerio. Lets try a different scenerio where the interest rates go up 1% per year after the ARM period is up.

Case 4: if ARM rates increase by 1% per year: Savings = $3626.
Case 5: if ARM rates don't increase and stay the same: Savings = $5578.
Case 6: if ARM rates decrease by 1% per year: Savings = $7388.

As you can see, if you had instead gotten the 5/1 ARM, you would have been better off in all possible scenerios. But this is only true BECAUSE you pay off more than the minimum. You and I are perfect candidates for the ARMs. The initial interest rate decrease by far offsets the minimal increase at the end. Why? Because if you pay off more than the minimum, you won't owe much money when the ARM rates increase. Thus, you aren't affected significantly when rates do increase.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: rpanic

Your might be able to piggyback onto someone else?s credit for a fee. But beware they are rewriting the way the FICO score is calculated for 2008 and this could affect some people that even have good credit now.
http://efinancedirectory.com/a...y.html?ref=patrick.net

LOL, the fraudsters have little shame I see. Obviously you must be a has-been mortgage loan officer. Are you back to selling used cars?

 

[rpanic]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: rpanic

Your might be able to piggyback onto someone else?s credit for a fee. But beware they are rewriting the way the FICO score is calculated for 2008 and this could affect some people that even have good credit now.
http://efinancedirectory.com/a...y.html?ref=patrick.net

LOL, the fraudsters have little shame I see. Obviously you must be a has-been mortgage loan officer. Are you back to selling used cars?

No I have nothing to do with banks by trade, I unlike a lot of people did not buy into the whole must by a house deal and I rent. I am constantly watching the market and my investments.

Just because I know how things work does not mean I am a crook. I think the banks should all take a major hit in the ass, along with crooked real estate agents and their appraisal buddies they all worked hand in hand.

And to the people that bought a house in the last 5 years you all get what you deserve. Nobody should be buying a house when they can?t even put 20% down, or buy not having a backup plan if someone loose there job or something. And to those that HELOC?ed there homes into ATMs to buy BMWs and trips you really deserve to be screwed, shame on all of you.

But LOL I could see how you would think that. I have been watching all the ways that people have been scamming just waiting for the bubble and the market to pop so I can swoop in and get a good house for my family.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rpanic

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: rpanic

Your might be able to piggyback onto someone else?s credit for a fee. But beware they are rewriting the way the FICO score is calculated for 2008 and this could affect some people that even have good credit now.
http://efinancedirectory.com/a...y.html?ref=patrick.net

LOL, the fraudsters have little shame I see. Obviously you must be a has-been mortgage loan officer. Are you back to selling used cars?

No I have nothing to do with banks by trade, I unlike a lot of people did not buy into the whole must by a house deal and I rent. I am constantly watching the market and my investments.

Just because I know how things work does not mean I am a crook. I think the banks should all take a major hit in the ass, along with crooked real estate agents and their appraisal buddies they all worked hand in hand.

And to the people that bought a house in the last 5 years you all get what you deserve. Nobody should be buying a house when they can?t even put 20% down, or buy not having a backup plan if someone loose there job or something. And to those that HELOC?ed there homes into ATMs to buy BMWs and trips you really deserve to be screwed, shame on all of you.

But LOL I could see how you would think that. I have been watching all the ways that people have been scamming just waiting for the bubble and the market to pop so I can swoop in and get a good house for my family.

Except for the past year or 2, anyone who bought a house in the last 5 years probably made a sh!tload of money and/or has a considerable amount of equity. True, some people will see a reduction of that wealth, but it's just illiquid "paper" wealth we're talking about (akin to crying about your stocks going down a bit after they'd already gone up considerably from where you bought in).

Corn assumed you were a crook because you clearly don't know how things work, and you're spreading the usual FUD plus encouragement to commit fraud (piggybacking on someone else's credit "for a fee" for the purpose of acquiring a mortgage is a federal crime).

And you're saying these people deserve to be screwed because you feel you already screwed yourself. There's an expression for that: "sour grapes."
Admittedly, it would have been better for everyone if this boom/bust cycle could have been avoided, but people like you are no more helpful than the "boomers" were a couple years ago.

 

[rpanic]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: rpanic

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: rpanic

Your might be able to piggyback onto someone else?s credit for a fee. But beware they are rewriting the way the FICO score is calculated for 2008 and this could affect some people that even have good credit now.
http://efinancedirectory.com/a...y.html?ref=patrick.net

LOL, the fraudsters have little shame I see. Obviously you must be a has-been mortgage loan officer. Are you back to selling used cars?

No I have nothing to do with banks by trade, I unlike a lot of people did not buy into the whole must by a house deal and I rent. I am constantly watching the market and my investments.

Just because I know how things work does not mean I am a crook. I think the banks should all take a major hit in the ass, along with crooked real estate agents and their appraisal buddies they all worked hand in hand.

And to the people that bought a house in the last 5 years you all get what you deserve. Nobody should be buying a house when they can?t even put 20% down, or buy not having a backup plan if someone loose there job or something. And to those that HELOC?ed there homes into ATMs to buy BMWs and trips you really deserve to be screwed, shame on all of you.

But LOL I could see how you would think that. I have been watching all the ways that people have been scamming just waiting for the bubble and the market to pop so I can swoop in and get a good house for my family.

Except for the past year or 2, anyone who bought a house in the last 5 years probably made a sh!tload of money and/or has a considerable amount of equity. True, some people will see a reduction of that wealth, but it's just illiquid "paper" wealth we're talking about (akin to crying about your stocks going down a bit after they'd already gone up considerably from where you bought in).

Corn assumed you were a crook because you clearly don't know how things work, and you're spreading the usual FUD plus encouragement to commit fraud (piggybacking on someone else's credit "for a fee" for the purpose of acquiring a mortgage is a federal crime).

And you're saying these people deserve to be screwed because you feel you already screwed yourself. There's an expression for that: "sour grapes."
Admittedly, it would have been better for everyone if this boom/bust cycle could have been avoided, but people like you are no more helpful than the "boomers" were a couple years ago.

Piggybacking on someone else?s credit is not a crime, at least not yet there are many companies that do this for a fee. Show me where it?s Illegal. That?s why I pointed out the change in the FICO scoring; because that is one of the things that the new rules are suppose to stop. Do your homework before posting.

I am not sour about anything or feel screwed. I have been saving for this. And I feel that I am finally at a point in my life to buy a house and feel secure about it.

People were living a Dom Perignon life style on a Budweiser budget. And now they are paying for it.

And you are screwed at least in California if you bought within the last 5 years, two years ago is when it peaked.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: rpanic

Piggybacking on someone else?s credit is not a crime, at least not yet there are many companies that do this for a fee. Show me where it?s Illegal. That?s why I pointed out the change in the FICO scoring; because that is one of the things that the new rules are suppose to stop. Do your homework before posting.

Yes, you can pay to have yourself added as an "authorized user" on someone else's accounts, that's not illegal. Just like how you can obtain "novelty" paycheck stubs for a fee. The crime is using those misrepresentations to obtain mortgage financing. Do *your* homework before posting. Text

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: rpanic
Piggybacking on someone else?s credit is not a crime, at least not yet there are many companies that do this for a fee. Show me where it?s Illegal. That?s why I pointed out the change in the FICO scoring; because that is one of the things that the new rules are suppose to stop. Do your homework before posting.

Yes, you can pay to have yourself added as an "authorized user" on someone else's accounts, that's not illegal. Just like how you can obtain "novelty" paycheck stubs for a fee. The crime is using those misrepresentations to obtain mortgage financing. Do *your* homework before posting.

Is rpanic serious or just stupid?

I clearly said "for the purpose of acquiring a mortgage."

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: rpanic
Piggybacking on someone else?s credit is not a crime, at least not yet there are many companies that do this for a fee. Show me where it?s Illegal. That?s why I pointed out the change in the FICO scoring; because that is one of the things that the new rules are suppose to stop. Do your homework before posting.

Yes, you can pay to have yourself added as an "authorized user" on someone else's accounts, that's not illegal. Just like how you can obtain "novelty" paycheck stubs for a fee. The crime is using those misrepresentations to obtain mortgage financing. Do *your* homework before posting.

Is rpanic serious or just stupid?

I clearly said "for the purpose of acquiring a mortgage."

How is improving one's credit for the purpose of getting a mortgage fraud? There is no fraud just abusing a loop hole.

 

[rpanic]

There is nothing illegal about piggybacking on someone else?s credit, to raise a persons crappy credit score which would help in acquiring a mortgage, there are many companies that do this, I didn?t say it was ethical I am just saying it not illegal. And that is one of things that are to be corrected in the new FICO rules.

Here are a few companies that do it; there are tons just from a Google search.

http://www.taylorstreetcredit...._dzF_Y0CFQdGYAodtCHALQ
http://www.credit-pro.com/


Here is an msn money article on it:

http://articles.moneycentral.m...ackOnACreditScore.aspx

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: rpanic
Piggybacking on someone else?s credit is not a crime, at least not yet there are many companies that do this for a fee. Show me where it?s Illegal. That?s why I pointed out the change in the FICO scoring; because that is one of the things that the new rules are suppose to stop. Do your homework before posting.

Yes, you can pay to have yourself added as an "authorized user" on someone else's accounts, that's not illegal. Just like how you can obtain "novelty" paycheck stubs for a fee. The crime is using those misrepresentations to obtain mortgage financing. Do *your* homework before posting.

Is rpanic serious or just stupid?

I clearly said "for the purpose of acquiring a mortgage."

When a company moves offshore to the Cayman Islands or Dick Cheney finds a way to "give" his Haliburton money to charity so that he can claim a larger deduction to increase his refund, they are just finding the loopholes.

When some working family has gotten into credit trouble either on their own or through medical bills or bankruptcy and tries to use a loophole to get a house, they are guilty of fraud?

All of them are working the system legally.

 

[rpanic]

Hey Vic I guess I am serious. BAAHAHAH

its ok

 

[JD50]

Sorry, but saying that you are stupid for buying a home without putting down 20% percent and that you get what you deserve when the market crashes is just idiotic.

 

[OS]

all over the news now, but CFC is experiencing a run on it's bank

 

[rpanic]

If people were required to put 20% down like the use to we wouldn't be in this boat. And it would have kept prices down for people who should.



All the sheep that got us into this mess are going to have to pay for there fiscal irresponsibility?s. Just like nobody should be covering the banks for giving loans to people that did not deserve them.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: OS
all over the news now, but CFC is experiencing a run on it's bank

I'm sure that has nothing to do with all the media lies and FUD that's been spread about an otherwise perfectly solvent institution. :roll:

And BTW, trolls, kindly STFU with your "well, if Bush, Cheney, and Haliburton can break the law... " idiot reasoning. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I could not give a sh!t about Bush except to see him out of office. What's your next argument? That murder should be okay too because some tool somewhere got away with it?
Piggybacking credit from a non-relative for a fee is not improving one's own credit, and material misrepresentations on a mortgage loan application is in fact a federal crime. This is no more a "loophole" than (as Corn mentioned) it would be to use false paystubs to document income. This is fraud, plain and simple.

Originally posted by: JD50
Sorry, but saying that you are stupid for buying a home without putting down 20% percent and that you get what you deserve when the market crashes is just idiotic.

You need to read between the lines (lies) of their rhetoric, which is, that poor people who can't afford to save up 20% shouldn't allowed to buy homes.

 

[rpanic]

Vic, first I never said it was ethical or the right thing to do, to piggyback on someone, two its not a federal crime like you said or illegal. Look at the links or Google it I?m am sorry if you have a problem admitting if you are wrong lets stick to the facts.

Poor people use to be able to buy houses before with 20%. But nobody likes to wait everyone likes instant gratification. Now everyone one got on the easy money train without thinking of the impact, and prices on houses skyrocketed.

I am sorry if I hit a sore spot with some people, but facts are facts this isn?t about two wrongs don?t make a right or whatever else you are going to come up with.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: rpanic
If people were required to put 20% down like the use to we wouldn't be in this boat. And it would have kept prices down for people who should.



All the sheep that got us into this mess are going to have to pay for there fiscal irresponsibility?s. Just like nobody should be covering the banks for giving loans to people that did not deserve them.

Why? That would do nothing but hurt first time homebuyers. Goodluck finding a first time home buyer that has 50k to put down on a starter home, thats ridiculous. The only homeowners would be the rich, and people in their 30s that decided not to have kids. The rest of us would be renting. So basically, you are saying fuck the lower and middle class, and those that have families.

 

[smack Down]

You need to read between the lines (lies) of their rhetoric, which is, that poor people who can't afford to save up 20% shouldn't allowed to buy homes.

In addition they shouldn't buy a boat or an air plane.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: rpanic
Vic, first I never said it was ethical or the right thing to do, to piggyback on someone, two its not a federal crime like you said or illegal. Look at the links or Google it I?m am sorry if you have a problem admitting if you are wrong lets stick to the facts.

Poor people use to be able to buy houses before with 20%. But nobody likes to wait everyone likes instant gratification. Now everyone one got on the easy money train without thinking of the impact, and prices on houses skyrocketed.

I am sorry if I hit a sore spot with some people, but facts are facts this isn?t about two wrongs don?t make a right or whatever else you are going to come up with.

People that got 100 percent financing for a house that they can afford the monthly payment are not the problem.....Most families used to survive on single incomes, obviously times have changed. You are either really young or really old, not sure which. Thats not meant as an insult either, btw.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: rpanic
If people were required to put 20% down like the use to we wouldn't be in this boat. And it would have kept prices down for people who should.



All the sheep that got us into this mess are going to have to pay for there fiscal irresponsibility?s. Just like nobody should be covering the banks for giving loans to people that did not deserve them.

Why? That would do nothing but hurt first time homebuyers. Goodluck finding a first time home buyer that has 50k to put down on a starter home, thats ridiculous. The only homeowners would be the rich, and people in their 30s that decided not to have kids. The rest of us would be renting. So basically, you are saying fuck the lower and middle class, and those that have families.

Maybe the problem is your so called 250K start home and not that no first time buyers have 50K sitting in the bank. But worry not that problem will fix itself soon enough. As less buyers are qualified for a loan that means the price of house will have to fall to find a buyer. This creates a nice positive feedback cycle. The falling price increases the bank's risk which will means they will raise rates and qualification so the price has to drop some more. Rise and repeat until current owners are the ones getting fucked over while first time buyer who are smart enough to save their money get house on the cheap with high interest rates.

 

[Rogodin2]

The FED just lowered their MBR .25% in order to give banks more liquidity.

Rogo