An armed society is a polite society. Well..

[kage69]

Which brought hard men with guns.
Had it just brought "civilized" urban folks they would have been terrorized by bandits and the west would never have gotten settled and grown.

You think "civilized" urban folks wouldn't need food, or the ability to defend family and livestock from wolves, bears, and mountain lions?

It wasn't bandits the West was wrestled away from either. Criminals killed people, sure, but so did "good christian folk" who wanted to drive out all that pagan wickedness so they could get down to the noble business of Manifest Destiny.

 

[Paratus]

Look there’s one egregious mistake in this thread that I simply can’t let pass.

Salma Hayek was in Wild Wild West not Penelope Cruz.

Wild west.

"Wild Wild West" was a television series, later made into a movie, starring will Smith, Kevin Kline, and Penelope Cruz.

 

[realibrad]

Look there’s one egregious mistake in this thread that I simply can’t let pass.

Salma Hayek was in Wild Wild West not Penelope Cruz.

I saw the same thing and laughed.

 

[realibrad]

 

[trenchfoot]

I was working on the mattress recoiling in horror but couldn't get the joke to work.

Made my day brah. 😀

 

[sandorski]

Dear fucking god what redneck bullshittery is this.

Of all things though - I'm not BLAMING them - But if someone pulls a gun based on where I want to dump a mattress...FUCK IT. It's not worth life threats - I'd apologize, take the mattress back and dump it somewhere else. Why do people have to beat their chest and behave like apes?

Just do a fucking risk assessment instead of worrying about your ego... Hmmm, should I continue this conflict involving guns over where to throw something away? If it takes you more than 2 seconds to answer that question, you're dumb and egotistical.



Precisely.

Or: Take a risk assessment and realize that an Armed Public is a bad idea.

 

[zinfamous]

actually bail should be dependent on the crime, not the person or thier means

if joe well off and gets busted for smoking pot he may get a high bail
yet bill living in his moms basement with no job gets very low bail

why does a person means have to be factored into it?

That's the point, and the reason for the reform. The poor are disproportionately locked up for an array of low-level crimes and so it affects them more, because the bond is still the bond. You've created a situation that doesn't exist, because I don't think you understand the problem.

If you tie it to the crime (which is all anyone is talking it...and basically how it works, anyway, afaik), and further reduce the bail for petty, non-violent offense, the same Joe Well Off will still get out, but also many more poor people will that otherwise couldn't before. One of the problems with our prison and recitivism system is that we lock up people for no reason, for years and years, depriving them of, at the very least, a chance to better themselves. Keep them caged in that environment, for no logical, justice-based reason, then don't be surprised if they come out thinking that the only real path through life now is a bit more serious criminality.

 

[Zor Prime]

They'll get off, they won't serve time. The guy was huge and threatening. You could sell that to a jury all - day - long. He only got warned 99 times.

 

[shortylickens]

The poster for this film was DEEPLY misleading.

 

[realibrad]

The poster for this film was DEEPLY misleading.

What goes on in my mind makes the movie unimportant.

 

[Vic]

Arming everyone is a spectacularly bad idea, unless the goal is to reduce population.

Actually, it's a great idea if you're in the business of selling arms.

 

[Vic]

in other news from chicago

September to Date
Shot & Killed: 26
Shot & Wounded: 133
Total Shot: 159
Total Homicides: 29

Yet still probably a lower per capita murder rate than Abilene, TX.
Statistics is hard. And doubly hard when you're a racist.

 

[realibrad]

Actually, it's a great idea if you're in the business of selling arms.

Walter White bought needed to buy one once.

 

[Vic]

actually bail should be dependent on the crime, not the person or thier means

if joe well off and gets busted for smoking pot he may get a high bail
yet bill living in his moms basement with no job gets very low bail

why does a person means have to be factored into it?

Because otherwise a person with means can easily get bail for a serious crime while a person without means sits months in jail for a minor crime.
This happens literally every day all across the country.
It's even worse for driving offenses. Joe Welloff speeds all he wants because the occasional $150 ticket is barely lunch money to him, while if Bill gets the same ticket just once he has to choose between missing his rent or losing his license.

 

[mdram]

Because otherwise a person with means can easily get bail for a serious crime while a person without means sits months in jail for a minor crime.
This happens literally every day all across the country.
It's even worse for driving offenses. Joe Welloff speeds all he wants because the occasional $150 ticket is barely lunch money to him, while if Bill gets the same ticket just once he has to choose between missing his rent or losing his license.

if you cant afford the fine/time
dont do the crime

being poor is not a reason to lower a fine/bail

 

[sandorski]

if you cant afford the fine/time
dont do the crime

being poor is not a reason to lower a fine/bail

That's not Justice. Being Wealthy is not having a Get Out of Jail card.

 

[realibrad]

if you cant afford the fine/time
dont do the crime

being poor is not a reason to lower a fine/bail

What is the point of bail? If its to help promote them showing up for court, then a wealthy person will be less impacted by the sum vs a lower income person. Why not make the burden equal and adjust for wealth/ability to pay?

 

[Vic]

if you cant afford the fine/time
dont do the crime

being poor is not a reason to lower a fine/bail

But being wealthy should be a reason to be able to get away with committing crime?

It seems you don't understand the issue. This isn't about helping poor people, it's about stopping rich people from being able to buy themselves above the law.
Or is that what you want? For some people to be above the law?

 

[Vic]

mdram: https://youtu.be/K_LvRPX0rGY

 

[SMOGZINN]

if you cant afford the fine/time
dont do the crime

being poor is not a reason to lower a fine/bail

Bail should be based on both their financial status as well as the potential penalty for the crime.

The entire point of bail is to give someone a financial reason to not skip town, if the amount of the bail is not meaningful to them then it does not accomplish that, if it is more than they can pay it does not accomplish that.

 

[brycejones]

if you cant afford the fine/time
dont do the crime

being poor is not a reason to lower a fine/bail

Empathy: something you don't have.

 

[WelshBloke]

Wait so in Texas it's ok to block off a public right of way then shoot people when they try to get past you?

 

[realibrad]

Wait so in Texas it's ok to block off a public right of way then shoot people when they try to get past you?

If that is what you think happened in this situation, then you are completely confused.

 

[Paladin3]

if you cant afford the fine/time
dont do the crime

being poor is not a reason to lower a fine/bail

Yeah, that old bullshit moto always works, doesn't it? Only if we accept someone on the financial fringes having it made harder for them to be a self-supporting, productive member of society. Do you think those we marginalize in our efforts to be tough on crime cease to exist or are no longer a problem? No, many of them become an even greater burden on society because we lack the common sense of doing what's in our own best interest.

I'd rather see a poor person arrested for a non-violent crime get a reasonably reduced bail if it means that they can keep their job. That's why bail should be set based on the accused's ability to pay, standing in the community, employment, previous record and the nature of their crime. And judges should have the ability to reduce or increase it if warranted.

 

[WelshBloke]

If that is what you think happened in this situation, then you are completely confused.

That was a public right of way and they were blocking him from moving that mattress. That's what it was about wasn't it?