An armed society is a polite society. Well..

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,040
136
Just watched the video, and I doubt we see them convicted of murder. Both sides were provoking each other, but the guy who was shot for sure was the aggressor. He was yelling "I'm going to kill you". Guy with the gun told him to not come closer or he would shoot. Guy yelled back "no you are not" and the guy with the gun said if you come within 3' of me I'm going to shoot you. So the guy called the bluff and went up to him again and was shot.

Dumb thing to get into an argument about. Guys with guns will be in hot water for provoking and bringing guns in the first place. Gun in the orange had his kids there, and all he could focus on was saying he was going to kill them. Sad for those kids.

So not only was he harassing them as I saw, but he both verbally and physically threatened them.
Damn....
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
So not only was he harassing them as I saw, but he both verbally and physically threatened them.
Damn....

Yep. They were idiots for bringing guns to that, but, the dead guy was for sure provoking them and had they not had guns I bet that he would have gone after them.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,699
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From what I know, he too will likely get off. He will argue that he thought his dad (presumption) was in danger and he was defending him. I have seen entire clips unloaded and deemed lawful so his son jumping in will likely not be an issue.

We now have a dead father who was killed in front of his kids and wife over something so stupid that only an idiot would bring a gun to. But, don't hold out hope in this case.
And again we have a case where someone is arguing that the shooters can start a fight, pull guns to escalate the situation and then use that as an excuse to murder.

Nope no problem at all with this arrangement.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
And again we have a case where someone is arguing that the shooters can start a fight, pull guns to escalate the situation and then use that as an excuse to murder.

Nope no problem at all with this arrangement.

No, that is not what I'm doing. I am telling you what will likely happen. That said, I will give you my opinion on this.

The guys who brought a gun to this are stupid and had they not I bet nobody would have been killed. That said, the guy in orange looked to be in a rage. He apparently had his kids there, wife filming and all he could do was to say he was going to kill the guys with the guns because he wanted to be tough. The old guy with the gun, while an idiot for bringing it, appeared to be the calm one of out everyone there.

So, escalating by bringing a gun, sure. Does not change the fact that the guy who was shot by far did more escalating which had he not done that I bet he would be alive. I see more onus on the guy who was shot, but, fully believe that more guns in situations like this leads to more death.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Just watched the video, and I doubt we see them convicted of murder. Both sides were provoking each other, but the guy who was shot for sure was the aggressor. He was yelling "I'm going to kill you". Guy with the gun told him to not come closer or he would shoot. Guy yelled back "no you are not" and the guy with the gun said if you come within 3' of me I'm going to shoot you. So the guy called the bluff and went up to him again and was shot.

Dumb thing to get into an argument about. Guys with guns will be in hot water for provoking and bringing guns in the first place. Gun in the orange had his kids there, and all he could focus on was saying he was going to kill them. Sad for those kids.

This is why I despise the NRA (at least, as it is now). Their philosophy boils down to "more guns would fix everything," but human nature suggests just the opposite. We're a species that will get into heated arguments over the most trivial crap, and instigate violence for no good reason; we'll see someone pointing a gun at us and think that, y'know, maybe they're just bluffing. It's fantastical to believe that people will think twice due to widespread gun ownership because... well, people don't think.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
So, escalating by bringing a gun, sure. Does not change the fact that the guy who was shot by far did more escalating which had he not done that I bet he would be alive. I see more onus on the guy who was shot, but, fully believe that more guns in situations like this leads to more death.

While the guy that got shot most certainly escalated the situation and was not being rational, he never posed a serious threat to life of the other two, and certainly was no longer a threat after he had been shot and was on the ground. The son had no reason to shoot. He clearly does not shoot until the guy is already on the ground. He shot because he wanted to make sure the guy was dead. That is premeditated murder.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
20,828
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Just watched the video, and I doubt we see them convicted of murder. Both sides were provoking each other, but the guy who was shot for sure was the aggressor. He was yelling "I'm going to kill you". Guy with the gun told him to not come closer or he would shoot. Guy yelled back "no you are not" and the guy with the gun said if you come within 3' of me I'm going to shoot you. So the guy called the bluff and went up to him again and was shot.

Dumb thing to get into an argument about. Guys with guns will be in hot water for provoking and bringing guns in the first place. Gun in the orange had his kids there, and all he could focus on was saying he was going to kill them. Sad for those kids.

Really? You wouldn't call that murder? What would you put it as? Manslaughter?

I couldn't tell since I don't have sound at the moment, but did the other party have a gun as well?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
This is why I despise the NRA (at least, as it is now). Their philosophy boils down to "more guns would fix everything," but human nature suggests just the opposite. We're a species that will get into heated arguments over the most trivial crap, and instigate violence for no good reason; we'll see someone pointing a gun at us and think that, y'know, maybe they're just bluffing. It's fantastical to believe that people will think twice due to widespread gun ownership because... well, people don't think.

Agreed. We are animals that lose control quite a lot really. You include a force multiplier and you are going to see more people get hurt. I to think the NRA has been harmful in pushing this idea that if we had enough threat of force that everything would be safe. People simply do not work that way.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
While the guy that got shot most certainly escalated the situation and was not being rational, he never posed a serious threat to life of the other two, and certainly was no longer a threat after he had been shot and was on the ground. The son had no reason to shoot. He clearly does not shoot until the guy is already on the ground. He shot because he wanted to make sure the guy was dead. That is premeditated murder.

Watch the video again and after the first shot, the guy throws something and that is when the son shoots.

Was it a real threat, probably not, but, its enough to make it likely lawful in my opinion.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
This is why I despise the NRA (at least, as it is now). Their philosophy boils down to "more guns would fix everything," but human nature suggests just the opposite. We're a species that will get into heated arguments over the most trivial crap, and instigate violence for no good reason; we'll see someone pointing a gun at us and think that, y'know, maybe they're just bluffing. It's fantastical to believe that people will think twice due to widespread gun ownership because... well, people don't think.

I don't know what sane rational person would see someone pull a gun and think "They aren't gonna pull the trigger"... as if thats a risk that is worthy of taking.

Unless you detect it's a BB gun or a squirt gun, who in their right mind would take a chance of that magnitude? Especially with a wife and kids - what a moron.
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Really? You wouldn't call that murder? What would you put it as? Manslaughter?

I couldn't tell since I don't have sound at the moment, but did the other party have a gun as well?

Are you making an argument that they should only be able to respond with equal force?

Manslaughter would likely be the most accurate here. You could argue that they played a major role in provoking the situation that lead to death. I would feel fully okay with that charge from what I saw. I bet that what happened before that video started played a big role and is important.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
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While the guy that got shot most certainly escalated the situation and was not being rational, he never posed a serious threat to life of the other two, and certainly was no longer a threat after he had been shot and was on the ground. The son had no reason to shoot. He clearly does not shoot until the guy is already on the ground. He shot because he wanted to make sure the guy was dead. That is premeditated murder.

Very true. The point of shooting someone is to suppress a threat. Not make sure they are dead.

Did the other guy even have anything that he could hurt with like a knife or gun?
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Very true. The point of shooting someone is to suppress a threat. Not make sure they are dead.

Did the other guy even have anything that he could hurt with like a knife or gun?

He threw something that sounded like wood. That makes me now wonder if he grabbed it and used it as a threat. Can't tell from the video, but, he clearly threw something and I don't think he had time to pick it up after the first shot, so I bet it was already in his hand.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
All the two billybobs had to do was turn around and go away. What were they doing guarding the trash?

You could make that argument about both sides. I do agree that bringing a gun to this was absurd. We have a dumb gun culture and in TX its worse. I know many people who enjoy guns that would never bring a gun to this. Its just absurd.
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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All the two billybobs had to do was turn around and go away. What were they doing guarding the trash?
The victim put an old mattress in a dumpster for the trash collector, Billy Bob didn't think it belonged there and drug it out and put it back on the neighbors property edge in the alley by his trash cans. They started the whole thing.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
The victim put an old mattress in a dumpster for the trash collector, Billy Bob didn't think it belonged there and drug it out and put it back on the neighbors property edge in the alley by his trash cans. They started the whole thing.

Not to mention that we have a situation with 2 armed men against one man and somehow they feel the need to shoot him twice.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,077
37,268
136
Even the most minor disputes in Texas should be settled by mandatory duel. Lets really test this armed society is polite society theory.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
The victim put an old mattress in a dumpster for the trash collector, Billy Bob didn't think it belonged there and drug it out and put it back on the neighbors property edge in the alley by his trash cans. They started the whole thing.

If that is the case, then manslaughter fits really well here.