adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
- Jul 2, 2023
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Who cares.
It's the same market which x86 does much better in.
So they should hurt the market where they are leading the duopoly in favour of the market where they will be one of many vendors for little boost to revenue that they will have to share with ARM anyway?
But if they sit back, the other ARM vendors will hurt the x86 market anyway. Better get in there early and grab as many cents as they can!So they should hurt the market where they are leading the duopoly in favour of the market where they will be one of many vendors for little boost to revenue that they will have to share with ARM anyway?
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
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DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
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Nobody should willingly become a thrall to ARM that can avoid doing so. And AMD can certainly avoid that.So they should hurt the market where they are leading the duopoly in favour of the market where they will be one of many vendors for little boost to revenue that they will have to share with ARM anyway?
Even though A19 Pro's FP16 shown 85% boost, Geekerwan's benchmarking of 3 real games shown average 54% faster FPS. Thus, I am assuming new RDNA architecture will boost average 40% in FPS, not as high as SNL but more realistic estimation.
AMD is definitely working on new shader architecture, namely GFX125x. As for any new design which boost FPS, AMD will try to hide the technique especially with new ARM platform. Therefore, I am creating tables below trying to demystify the ISA codenames. If anyone has any new info, feel free to pitch in.
GFX11.5 - RDNA 3.5 CU Shader ISA Strix Point 16 gfx1150 Strix Halo 40 gfx1151 Kracken Point 8 gfx1152 N44 32 gfx1200 N48 64 gfx1201
GFX12.5 - RDNA 4.5? Platform CU (New ISA) CU (~Equal to Old ISA) Shader ISA Exynos 2600 ARM 8 CU 12 Soundwave ARM 16 CU? 24 Medusa Point MDS1 x86 8 CU 12 Medusa Point MDS2 x86 4 CU 6 Medusa Point MDS3 x86 2 CU 3
GFX13.0 - RDNA 5? Platform CU (New ISA) CU (~Equal to Old ISA) Shader ISA Medusa Premium x86 24 36 ARM + AT4 ? ARM 24 36 Medusa Halo x86 48 72 ARM + AT3 ? ARM 48 72 AT2 x86 64 96 AT0 x86 154 231
PS: Almost all the above new SoCs / GPUs are targeting to be released in 2027; well except E2600 and Soundwave....
AMD "GFX1251" Target Added To LLVM As Latest RDNA 4.5 APU - Phoronix
www.phoronix.com
Phoronix has updated the LLVM info about GFX125x: AMD has added one more APU model to list. That makes two APU with RDNA4.5 ISA: GFX1250 and GFX1251. The site specifically mentioned APU term; thus, it should be similar to STX, KRK and Halo. It might refer to upcoming Soundwave and E2600 because there are only 2 APUs which will be released soon.
In case people still don't get it, Soundwave is considered ARM version of Strix Point that is fabbed by N3P node. It won't support SMT cause AMD is using off the shelf ARM IP, namely C1 series as part of Niva CSS. However AMD will use new generation of RDNA4.5? as speculated above. Even though C1 won't support SMT and STX have 24 threads, the final benchmark scores might show difference results:
| X2 Elite Extreme | Intel Ultra 7 268V | AMD Ryzen 9 9950X | AMD Ryzen 9 HX375 | iPad Pro M5 | M5 Compare to STX | Mediatek D9500 | D9500 Compare to STX | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Codename | Lunar Lake | Zen 5 | Strix Point | M5 | D9500 5G | |||||
| Core Count | 12 + 6 without SMT | 4P + 4LPe without SMT | 16P with SMT | 4P + 8E with SMT | 3P + 6E without SMT | 1 + 3 + 4 without SMT | ||||
| Threads | 18 | 8 | 32 | 24 | 9 | 8 | ||||
| Max Clock Speed | 5 GHz | 5 GHz | 5.7 GHz | 5.1 GHz | 4.42 GHz | 4.21 GHz | ||||
| TDP | ~ 40 W | 17 W | 170 W | 28 - 54 W | ~14 W | 2 - 3.9X Power Efficiency | ~14W | 2 - 3.9X Power Efficiency | ||
| GB6 ST | 4083 | 2729 | 3385 | 2856 | 4133 | + 45% | 3700 | + 30% | ||
| Performance Per Clock | 817 | 546 | 594 | 560 | 935 | + 67% | 879 | + 57% | ||
| GB6 MT | 23349 | 10025 | 21430 | 14367 | 15437 | + 7.5% | 11000 | - 30% | ||
| Performance Per Thread | 1297 | 1253 | 670 | 599 | 1715 | + 286% | 1375 | + 230% | ||
| M4 (10-core) | ||||||||||
| C2024 MT | 1967 | 615 | 2340 | 1130 | 962 | |||||
| Performance Per Thread | 109 | 77 | 73.1 | 47.1 | 96.2 | |||||
| SNL | 5648 | 3555 | NA | 3600+ | ~ 5000+ | 3100+ |
Soundwave will be competing with M5 MacBook Pro and Air; even though C1 might not score as high as M5. And that's why AMD is switching to ARM platform; I really hope members here won't be so senseless about the coming changes. Cheers !!!
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gfx1251 is MI430X, HPC version of MI400AMD "GFX1251" Target Added To LLVM As Latest RDNA 4.5 APU - Phoronix
Phoronix has updated the LLVM info about GFX125x: AMD has added one more APU model to list. That makes two APU with RDNA4.5 ISA: GFX1250 and GFX1251. The site specifically mentioned APU term; thus, it should be similar to STX, KRK and Halo. It might refer to upcoming Soundwave and E2600 because there are only 2 APUs which will be released soon.
In case people still don't get it, Soundwave is considered ARM version of Strix Point that is fabbed by N3P node. It won't support SMT cause AMD is using off the shelf ARM IP, namely C1 series as part of Niva CSS. However AMD will use new generation of RDNA4.5? as speculated above. Even though C1 won't support SMT and STX have 24 threads, the final benchmark scores might show difference results:
AMD Ryzen 9 HX375 iPad Pro M5 Codename Strix Point M5 Core Count 4P + 8E with SMT 3P + 6E without SMT Threads 24 9 GB6 ST 2856 4133 GB6 MT 14367 15437
Soundwave will be competing with M5 MacBook Pro and Air; even though C1 might not score as high as M5. And that's why AMD is switching to ARM platform; I really hope members here won't be so senseless about the coming changes. Cheers !!!
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
- Jul 2, 2023
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you're talking either to a schizo or a chatgpt wrapper. don't.
adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
- Jul 2, 2023
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Hoho, as expected, there are few short-sighted members mocking my thread even though I show the table with numbers. I have updated the table to include more numbers; I will let you all have an own judgement.AMD "GFX1251" Target Added To LLVM As Latest RDNA 4.5 APU - Phoronix
Phoronix has updated the LLVM info about GFX125x: AMD has added one more APU model to list. That makes two APU with RDNA4.5 ISA: GFX1250 and GFX1251. The site specifically mentioned APU term; thus, it should be similar to STX, KRK and Halo. It might refer to upcoming Soundwave and E2600 because there are only 2 APUs which will be released soon.
In case people still don't get it, Soundwave is considered ARM version of Strix Point that is fabbed by N3P node. It won't support SMT cause AMD is using off the shelf ARM IP, namely C1 series as part of Niva CSS. However AMD will use new generation of RDNA4.5? as speculated above. Even though C1 won't support SMT and STX have 24 threads, the final benchmark scores might show difference results:
AMD Ryzen 9 HX375 iPad Pro M5 M5 Compare to STX Mediatek D9500 D9500 Compare to STX Codename Strix Point M5 D9500 5G Core Count 4P + 8E with SMT 3P + 6E without SMT 1 + 3 + 4 without SMT Threads 24 9 8 Max Clock Speed 5.1GHz 4.42 GHz 4.21 GHz TDP 28 - 54 W ~14 W 2 - 3.9X Power Efficiency ~14W 2 - 3.9X Power Efficiency GB6 ST 2856 4133 + 45% 3700 + 30% Performance Per Clock 560 935 + 67% 879 + 57% GB6 MT 14367 15437 + 7.5% 11000 - 30% Performance Per Thread 599 1715 + 286% 1375 + 230%
Soundwave will be competing with M5 MacBook Pro and Air; even though C1 might not score as high as M5. And that's why AMD is switching to ARM platform; I really hope members here won't be so senseless about the coming changes. Cheers !!!
Remember Lisa told us to expect 100X power efficiency. And no, Venice fabbed by N2 won't save that, they still require up to 700W per socket to power 256-core. The only way to achieve 100X power efficiency is switching to ARM as shown in the table above. ARM SoC have become so powerful (ST and MT) and yet still maintaining same power envelope. x86 has to juice up to 54W in order to reach 5.1GHz and yet the performance is subpar. And no Zen6 APU like Medusa Point won't change that; the high clock speed commitment undermine the potential of GPU and NPU. CPU cores need to add more extension not clock speed; it has been cursed by Intel since long time ago. That's why Intel has to disable HT and AVX-512 to achieve that with PTL. Of course, poor 18A node is part of the contribution factor.
Most of the leakers has access to the same specs of Soundwave: 2P+4E with 4CU. Again, don't believe blindly in the roadmap. If you believe AMD is naive enough to offer such APU, well you shouldn't be here.
If anyone wants to mock my thread, here is your last chance cause AMD is about to offer new roadmap about switching to ARM platform after Zen6.
Last edited:
poke01
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- Mar 8, 2022
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adroc_thurston
Diamond Member
- Jul 2, 2023
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Hoho, as expected, there are few short-sighted members mocking my thread even though I show the table with numbers. I have updated the table to include more numbers; I will let you all have an own judgement.
Remember Lisa told us to expect 100X power efficiency. And no, Venice fabbed by N2 won't save that, they still require up to 700W per socket to power 256-core. The only way to achieve 100X power efficiency is switching to ARM as shown in the table above. ARM SoC have become so powerful (ST and MT) and yet still maintaining same power envelope. x86 has to juice up to 54W in order to reach 5.1GHz and yet the performance is subpar. And no Zen6 APU like Medusa Point won't change that; the high clock speed commitment undermine the potential of GPU and NPU. CPU cores need to add more extension not clock speed; it has been cursed by Intel since long time ago. That's why Intel has to disable HT and AVX-512 to achieve that with PTL. Of course, poor 18A node is part of the contribution factor.
Most of the leakers has access to the same specs of Soundwave: 2P+4E with 4CU. Again, don't believe blindly in the roadmap. If you believe AMD is naive enough to offer such APU, well you shouldn't be here.
If anyone wants to mock my thread, here is your last chance cause AMD is about to offer new roadmap about switching to ARM platform after Zen6.
Efficiency != watts consumed.
Covfefe
Member
- Jul 23, 2025
- 51
- 76
- 51
Hoho, as expected, there are few short-sighted members mocking my thread even though I show the table with numbers. I have updated the table to include more numbers; I will let you all have an own judgement.
Remember Lisa told us to expect 100X power efficiency. And no, Venice fabbed by N2 won't save that, they still require up to 700W per socket to power 256-core. The only way to achieve 100X power efficiency is switching to ARM as shown in the table above. ARM SoC have become so powerful (ST and MT) and yet still maintaining same power envelope. x86 has to juice up to 54W in order to reach 5.1GHz and yet the performance is subpar. And no Zen6 APU like Medusa Point won't change that; the high clock speed commitment undermine the potential of GPU and NPU. CPU cores need to add more extension not clock speed; it has been cursed by Intel since long time ago. That's why Intel has to disable HT and AVX-512 to achieve that with PTL. Of course, poor 18A node is part of the contribution factor.
Most of the leakers has access to the same specs of Soundwave: 2P+4E with 4CU. Again, don't believe blindly in the roadmap. If you believe AMD is naive enough to offer such APU, well you shouldn't be here.
If anyone wants to mock my thread, here is your last chance cause AMD is about to offer new roadmap about switching to ARM platform after Zen6.
Lisa Su's 100x efficiency claim was about AI accelerators, not CPUs.
Lisa Su says AMD is on track to a 100x power efficiency improvement by 2027 — CEO outlines AMD’s advances during keynote at imec’s ITF World 2024
Less energy, more performance.
Hoho, have you wondered why Sony and AMD are pre-annoucing new RDNA5 (filename itself) architectures with official terms?
Both RDNA5 GPUs and PS6 are about two years away. Why the rush?
Well, if you have watched my thread, then you should know Soundwave's iGPU should be based on new RDNA ISA, which should be RDNA4.5: subset/mobile version of RDNA5. Sony just want to be the first one to announce the architecture which will be common features for all future RDNA4.5/5 GPU. Yep, that's mean Soundwave and WoA12 launching should be imminent....
Stay tuned for more updates.what ridiculous schizoposting even by this forum's standards.
🤣If anyone wants to mock my thread, here is your last chance cause AMD is about to offer new roadmap about switching to ARM platform after Zen6.
...The date you joined the forum is very fitting 😅
That's not how RDNA's versioning works.
Yep, that's mean Soundwave and WoA12 launching should be imminent....
All in all, you remind me of someone from beyond3d forums (was it juanrga?).
Never listening to facts presented by others, always spinning your own tale, no matter how little sense it makes.
wasnt juanrga mainly the old semi accurate forums...... i miss that forum🤣
...The date you joined the forum is very fitting 😅
That's not how RDNA's versioning works.
All in all, you remind me of someone from beyond3d forums (was it juanrga?).
Never listening to facts presented by others, always spinning your own tale, no matter how little sense it makes.
DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
- 22,925
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- 136
!!!!!!!!
Internet Strongman reference sighted! Batton down the hatches! Sound the alarms! We are not prepared for an incursion by Internet Strongman juangra!
So they should hurt the market where they are leading the duopoly in favour of the market where they will be one of many vendors for little boost to revenue that they will have to share with ARM anyway?
💯
Unless/until Intel gets their act together and takes back the crown, AMD is now the "face" of x86. Just like old dominant Intel was never going to do anything to risk the dominance of x86 on Windows, AMD has to think the same way.
Sure if Windows on ARM starts gaining real market share they have to be prepared to jump on board the train. But since that is IMHO unlikely they should not want to do anything to help legitimize ARM in the eyes of the market by making it a first class citizen in their product lineup.
marees
Golden Member
- Apr 28, 2024
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Apparently they were strong-armed by Microsoft into doing this !!
But with zen doing so well I don't see the need for ARM for AMD
Microsoft may not like being dependent on x86 but that's the legacy of windows now
MarkizSchnitzel
Senior member
- Nov 10, 2013
- 473
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Is it possible that MS is just petty, and want a windows macbook, and for some reason they think they need ARM ISA for it?
Or are scared of Intel imploding so hedging bets?
Or are scared of Intel imploding so hedging bets?
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