AMD X399 ！！！！！

[lobz]

Okay, which quarter past or present (no, Q2 2017 doesn't count) should I be looking at here? I may be one of the biggest AMD fanboys on this forum in terms of what I will buy or promote, but even I have to admit that they are still losing money. That's why they took at hit to their stock price after reporting their Q1 2017 earnings.

Apparently my decision to buy an 1800x wasn't enough to get them into the black. Guess I'll have to buy a Vega too.

You don't understamd me or you are just trolling. If you don't like mentioning q2, then you don't get to mock ryzen pricing. Use logic please before you lecture me from your skyhigh horse

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[Atari2600]

Its actually you that needs to climb down off your high horse.

 

[Topweasel]

You don't understamd me or you are just trolling. If you don't like mentioning q2, then you don't get to mock ryzen pricing. Use logic please before you lecture me from your skyhigh horse

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He isn't wrong and AMD isn't going to pull almost a decade of losses per quarter around in one quarter. Q2 doesn't exist yet and AMD has in the 20 years I have watched them has only made money in like 6 quarters out of 80 and only one year posted net gains.

AMD does have an aversion to profits.

 

[lobz]

He isn't wrong and AMD isn't going to pull almost a decade of losses per quarter around in one quarter. Q2 doesn't exist yet and AMD has in the 20 years I have watched them has only made money in like 6 quarters out of 80 and only one year posted net gains.

AMD does have an aversion to profits.

You also don't understand me. From the point you two wanna make, ryzen pricing has NOTHING to do with that. That's what I wanted to point out.

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[dnavas]

The elephant in the room: how are we going to cool these? The CPUs are apparently quite large, and if they OC like my 1800X, I'm going to need to move a little over 320W out of the case just for the CPU. [If they don't OC like the 1800X, no worries as I won't care ;/ ] I don't think my Antec Solo is going to cut it for airflow, but then, my 650W Seasonic might not either. But regardless of case and power supplies, we're going to need to find coolers. Anyone have any pointers for what will work well?

 

[IEC]

Water cooling or giant air coolers like Noctua D15s.

Don't forget it'll be basically 2x the die size versus an 1800X, and at 3.9GHz or less these dies don't require nearly as much voltage as for 4GHz+.

 

[Ajay]

The elephant in the room: how are we going to cool these? The CPUs are apparently quite large, and if they OC like my 1800X, I'm going to need to move a little over 320W out of the case just for the CPU. [If they don't OC like the 1800X, no worries as I won't care ;/ ] I don't think my Antec Solo is going to cut it for airflow, but then, my 650W Seasonic might not either. But regardless of case and power supplies, we're going to need to find coolers. Anyone have any pointers for what will work well?

Custom H2O cooling if you want to overclock into that sort of territory and also want sane temps (assuming Snowy Owl will overclock that well).

 

[Topweasel]

You also don't understand me. From the point you two wanna make, ryzen pricing has NOTHING to do with that. That's what I wanted to point out.

Okay then you are talking without context. Whether DrMrLordX was making a joke or not, his comment had merit. AMD is perennially in the red. Is Ryzen pricing affecting that no since they have a total of like 1 month of numbers on the book with Ryzen. Hopefully Ryzen, Raven Ridge, and this HEDT, along with a more competitive GC like Vega (god willing) will allow AMD to approach profits. But even if it is serious AMD to sell hardware has outside a few products specially on the CPU end with pretty dang thin margin. So AMD pricing based on the numbers quoted early, that someone else then stated "AMD must hate money" which DrMrLordX responded to, yes AMD pricing to "shake up the market" does play in them not being profitable. Marketshare is important and Ryzen will stop the massive bleeding with new revenue, but it's not a light switch to profitability.

Which brings us back to the original point. It was you without the context. Not me and not DrMrLordX who is the one who would know why he said what he said. If anyone go after the guy who originally made that statement.

 

[lobz]

Okay then you are talking without context. Whether DrMrLordX was making a joke or not, his comment had merit. AMD is perennially in the red. Is Ryzen pricing affecting that no since they have a total of like 1 month of numbers on the book with Ryzen. Hopefully Ryzen, Raven Ridge, and this HEDT, along with a more competitive GC like Vega (god willing) will allow AMD to approach profits. But even if it is serious AMD to sell hardware has outside a few products specially on the CPU end with pretty dang thin margin. So AMD pricing based on the numbers quoted early, that someone else then stated "AMD must hate money" which DrMrLordX responded to, yes AMD pricing to "shake up the market" does play in them not being profitable. Marketshare is important and Ryzen will stop the massive bleeding with new revenue, but it's not a light switch to profitability.

Which brings us back to the original point. It was you without the context. Not me and not DrMrLordX who is the one who would know why he said what he said. If anyone go after the guy who originally made that statement.

Well then, I must say it was pointless trolling. Might as well go to wccf and say: ...but where is Vega? Context... OK.

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[Topweasel]

Well then, I must say it was pointless trolling. Might as well go to wccf and say: ...but where is Vega? Context... OK.

Trolling by who? Not DrMrLordX, right?

 

[lobz]

Trolling by who? Not DrMrLordX, right?

Nevermind, really. We're talking about different things. If it were to be a joke by him, I guess he's not the greatest stand-up comedist of our time... if not, my point stands, but it's like we're talking in different languages... sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my goal.

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[Topweasel]

Nevermind, really. We're talking about different things. If it were to be a joke by him, I guess he's not the greatest stand-up comedist of our time... if not, my point stands, but it's like we're talking in different languages... sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my goal.

I was thinking the same thing when I wrote the last message. I just can't quite get that last bit of info to figure out where you were trying to go with it but at least from my point of view its really simple.

Someone says AMD's pricing,

Someone else says AMD must hate money.

DrMrLordX lord says (paraphrasing) "Yeah that's why they have 20 years of straight loses". Implying that AMD is alway losing money because they hate it and don't want it.

It really isn't deeper then that. I am pretty sure all but the biggest Intel fanboy wants AMD to be somewhat profitable.

 

[Glo.]

If each die costs AMD 20$ to make then pricing CPU made from 2 dies at 1499$ is not exactly hating money, is it?

 

[ScottAD]

AMD is definitely in the right ballpark with these processors, but that doesn't mean they're going to take home the prize and bury Intel. I don't understand the group of people that claim they will, nor the group of people who claim they need to. They only need to take market-share. It isn't yet about the war, it's about the battles.

All Sun Tzu style.

 

[DrMrLordX]

You don't understamd me

I see what you did there!

or you are just trolling.

No. I'm more of a zombie than a troll.

If you don't like mentioning q2, then you don't get to mock ryzen pricing.

Who's mocking Ryzen pricing? Hell I was one of the ones that predicted a top-end price of $499 for Ryzen, and I got it right, too. More than one user here told me I was living in a fantasy world when I did that . . . actually, the only pricing I got wrong was the price for the 8c/8t part that does not (and probably never will) exist.

I don't "like mentioning Q2" because those results don't exist yet. You don't know what kind of hell AMD is going through right now, or how much they would actually have to earn to get out of their hole. The margins on Ryzen are excellent compared to past products, and it certainly appears as though they are selling a lot of them, but the debt . . . oh, the crushing debt. It's going to take a lot more than one good quarter to turn them around, and we don't even know how good Q2 will be in reality.

Use logic please before you lecture me from your skyhigh horse

Shortest. Lecture. Ever.

If each die costs AMD 20$ to make then pricing CPU made from 2 dies at 1499$ is not exactly hating money, is it?

You have to put that die cost in context of what it took to get them where they are today. AMD had been on the losing side of the performance game for over a decade before Ryzen launched, and even today, you still can't say they own the crown for performance thanks to the 6950X and (in some instances) 7700k. The main point is that they've returned to respectability. They caught Intel flatfooted and cut into their fat margins, which was child's play once they had a reasonably competent product.

Now stop and think about all those years when AMD basically couldn't market anything due either to the inferiorirty of their product (2011-2013) or due to their unwillingness to sell anything but sub-$200 "budget" CPUs/APUs (2013-2016). Ryzen has to make up for alllllllllll of that. Think of all the product cancellations to make Zen/Summit Ridge a reality: 4m Steamroller, 4m Excavator . . . and hell any of the 5m+ Piledriver stuff.

Add on to that years of losses from 2006-2011 because they couldn't compete with Core2 and Nehalem after it. They sort-of got close with K10.5 and then pissed all that away with Bulldozer.

And while we're at it . . . remember how AMD bought ATI? AMD is the company that's responsible for producing hardware that has "mined" out some ungodly amount of cryptocurrency. How much did they mine for themselves? Did they ever stop to think, "hey, let's just make some cut-down version of GCN purpose-built to run this mining algorithm, you know, sort of an ASIC thingy, and make tons of money". Noooo they let some Chinese/Taiwanese upstarts do that instead. They probably could have knocked out their entire debt load and then some with crypto, but they never noticed all those people buying their cards and making a profit off the hardware . . . or the ASICs that came after . . .

Have I gone on enough about AMD's financial disaster?

That being said, while I am not "in for one" on X399, I will probably get Vega, assuming they'll sell it to me. Which, to date, they won't. Hard to make a sad face when you're a zombie.

 

[lobz]

I see what you did there!



No. I'm more of a zombie than a troll.



Who's mocking Ryzen pricing? Hell I was one of the ones that predicted a top-end price of $499, and I got it right, too. More than one user here told me I was living in a fantasy world when I did that . . . actually, the only pricing I got wrong was the price for the 8c/8t part that does not (and probably never will) exist.

I don't "like mentioning Q2" because those results don't exist yet. You don't know what kind of hell AMD is going through right now, or how much they would actually have to earn to get out of their hole. The margins on Ryzen are excellent compared to past products, and it certainly appears as though they are selling a lot of them, but the debt . . . oh, the crushing debt. It's going to take a lot more than one good quarter to turn them around, and we don't even know how good Q2 will be in reality.



Shortest. Lecture. Ever.

You're quite an OK guy ))

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[dnavas]

Water cooling or giant air coolers like Noctua D15s.

Don't forget it'll be basically 2x the die size versus an 1800X, and at 3.9GHz or less these dies don't require nearly as much voltage as for 4GHz+.

I already have a D15S, and I added a second fan to it, given the restrictive air in my case. It's a struggle to keep temps under 80 (adjusted from 100) after an hour of Prime, and that's when I'm at 3.9. Forget 4Ghz, I'm not stable there

Do we have a die size for whitehaven yet? The D15S is 40mm x 38mm, I think.... Even if it's sufficient, I have doubts about the speed with which it'll be able to move 300W off the die. Although, that said, the cooler itself is hardly even warm.

 

[wildhorse2k]

I already have a D15S, and I added a second fan to it, given the restrictive air in my case. It's a struggle to keep temps under 80 (adjusted from 100) after an hour of Prime, and that's when I'm at 3.9. Forget 4Ghz, I'm not stable there

Do we have a die size for whitehaven yet? The D15S is 40mm x 38mm, I think.... Even if it's sufficient, I have doubts about the speed with which it'll be able to move 300W off the die. Although, that said, the cooler itself is hardly even warm.

Heat propagation is dependent on surface area. If the CPU takes 2x as much area, it can run with 2x as much TDP. Todays CPUs would benefit a lot from being larger, not smaller. There is no reason to fear 200W CPUs as long as surface area is sufficient. We could even have 500W Ryzen CPUs as long as motherboards can supply that much power and cooling is improved.

You have to put that die cost in context of what it took to get them where they are today. AMD had been on the losing side of the performance game for over a decade before Ryzen launched, and even today, you still can't say they own the crown for performance thanks to the 6950X and (in some instances) 7700k. The main point is that they've returned to respectability. They caught Intel flatfooted and cut into their fat margins, which was child's play once they had a reasonably competent product.

AMD seems to have found a nice balance between IPC optimizations and power usage. Intel may have ended up with design that is too complex and its IPC optimizations perhaps don't pay off in multi-core designs as they cost TDP. In few core designs it works well as TDP is low. AMD can throw in many power efficient cheap cores into single CPU that will eventually win the game as performance per watt matters in the end.

 

[Malogeek]

AMD EPYC is the name for Naples. Seriously.

 

[Glo.]

AMD Epyc for datacenter(previously codenamed "Naples).

The name is actually Epyc.

 

[dnavas]

Holy cow, do you see the size of that thing?!

 

[Saylick]

Holy cow, do you see the size of that thing?!

Oh yeah. Me likey.

 

[formulav8]

Yeps just saw that on the feed.

 

[flash-gordon]

Time to drop area and start to measure CPUs in mass... Performance/Kg...

 

[dnavas]

Time to drop area and start to measure CPUs in mass... Performance/Kg...

Yeah, this is why I'm asking about cooling options. I don't think a D15S is going to cover that puppy!