AMD Trinity to launch on October 2nd

[Centauri]

Someone here said it well, this is a Trinity thread, let's talk about it.

Several people have said that. Unfortunately none of them have been moderators.

 

[Arkaign]

It really must be said in any comparison between BD and i5/i7 K-series chips, that you compare reasonable OC of each. Nobody runs a K-series chip at stock speeds unless they're mentally deficient. Otherwise why pay extra $$ for an unlocked chip to begin with?

As for Trinity, any improvement is welcome. Llano was borderline at best imho. It's a difficult market because even at $100 one can get monumentally better GPUs than integrated. That pretty much relegates the product to a value proposition with either very small form factor desktops or very cheap entry-level gaming laptops. Either way, it's a situation where someone spending a little more cash gets a tremendous boost. It doesn't even have to be AMD vs. Intel either.

Just keeping it in the AMD world, would you as a gamer rather have the highest-end possible Llano by itself, or a PhII X4BE + 7750? It's not a totally fair comparison, as of course the 7750 is going to cost nearly $100 by itself, but it's not insane to ask that either. $100 is about the average going rate of two new games these days, hardly a lot to ask for a ridiculously huge improvement in performance. To add to that, I've seen benchmarks which show Llano to be half decent, but to get there matched up with 1866 or faster ram. The PhII system could outperform it with 1066 ram in gaming easily with that lowly 7750.

Hopefully Trinity boosts things enough to make it credible.

 

[Hubb1e]

The Intel guys are assuming this is an enthusiast's CPU while the AMD guys are assuming it is a mainstream CPU. Mainstream buyers don't visit Newegg to buy a 7750 and drop it in their brand new rig with a warranty. If you build a computer yourself then Trinity is much less attractive since a Pentium and a 7750 can wipe the floor with it. But I've never seen a desktop built like that from HP or Dell.

Vs an i3 with 2500 graphics Trinity is a win in almost every category but load power usage and single thread performance.

But really, the best way to think of Trinity is by use case.

Can the CPU handle this workload with acceptable performance?

Web browsing
Trinity yes i3 yes

general workloads
Trinity yes i3 yes

video encoding
Trinity yes i3 yes

Light gaming
Trinity yes i3 yes

Mid range gaming
Trinity yes i3 barely

High end gaming
Trinity sorta i3 no

Realistically the average person doesn't care if they can unzip that file in 5 seconds vs 7 seconds. It doesn't make any noticeable difference in day to day tasks. Both the i3 and Trinity are positioned as mainstream CPUs and only one can handle modern games. That means that Trinity is a better overall purchase for a workload that may involve some gaming which is a lot of families out there. If I was to recommend a system to someone and I didn't know anything about how they use their computer, I would recommend a Trinity system because it can handle more workloads than the i3.

 

[Arkaign]

Borderlands 2 and Guild Wars are hugely popular games that already run terribly on low end stuff.

Really I think the best advice to someone that can't afford a discrete GPU (I mean, how many people how play games can't afford to skip a couple of games and put that $100 into something that isn't ridiculously slow?) is to just keep gaming on a console.

Plenty of mainstream buyers upgrade their PCs. A lot more than build PCs outright, that's for sure.

I think the time will come when an integrated GPU isn't borderline to horrible, but it's just not there yet imho.

 

[Arkaign]

But yes, I do think someone who will never upgrade anything is better served by something like an A8 or Trinity product than an i3 or Pentium with no discrete GPU. It's still bad, but not as worthless.

 

[AtenRa]

You already do that.

Really ?? can you show me a single post I have ever made in an Intel thread saying Intel is useless on desktop. ??

This thread is about Trinity, if you or anyone else dont have anything to say about the topic then please stay away.

 

[Chiropteran]

Borderlands 2 and Guild Wars are hugely popular games that already run terribly on low end stuff.

I can't speak for borderlands 2, but Guild Wars is perfectly playable on my cheap llano laptop. I bet it would run pretty decent on the higher-end trinity units. Admittedly I run it with fairly low settings, but you are talking about consoles so obviously you don't care at all about graphic quality

Consoles certainly aren't the holy grail, I've heard plenty of stories of some newer games slowing to a crawl in certain areas on the PS3 & XBox.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I don't understand the people taking personal offense to the existence of a processor. So its worse, so what? Or someone else likes the processor, and this affects your well-being how exactly? Get on with your life and don't stress so much about it.

It is not taking personal offense to the existence of a processor per se. It is not what I like or dislike. I am free to like or dislike whatever I please. So is anyone else in these forums. What I don't like is one who continually supports one side or the other without taking all factors into consideration, and who posts cherry picked or outright misleading data to support a claim that one product is better in relation to another than it really is.

Personally, I am fairly knowledgeable about CPUs and about who on these forums posts in favor of one camp or the other no matter what. However, someone new to the forums could get some very misleading information if posters continually deluge the forum with posts biased towards one particular manufacturer.

 

[frozentundra123456]

The Intel guys are assuming this is an enthusiast's CPU while the AMD guys are assuming it is a mainstream CPU. Mainstream buyers don't visit Newegg to buy a 7750 and drop it in their brand new rig with a warranty. If you build a computer yourself then Trinity is much less attractive since a Pentium and a 7750 can wipe the floor with it. But I've never seen a desktop built like that from HP or Dell.

Vs an i3 with 2500 graphics Trinity is a win in almost every category but load power usage and single thread performance.

But really, the best way to think of Trinity is by use case.

Can the CPU handle this workload with acceptable performance?

Web browsing
Trinity yes i3 yes

general workloads
Trinity yes i3 yes

video encoding
Trinity yes i3 yes

Light gaming
Trinity yes i3 yes

Mid range gaming
Trinity yes i3 barely

High end gaming
Trinity sorta i3 no

Realistically the average person doesn't care if they can unzip that file in 5 seconds vs 7 seconds. It doesn't make any noticeable difference in day to day tasks. Both the i3 and Trinity are positioned as mainstream CPUs and only one can handle modern games. That means that Trinity is a better overall purchase for a workload that may involve some gaming which is a lot of families out there. If I was to recommend a system to someone and I didn't know anything about how they use their computer, I would recommend a Trinity system because it can handle more workloads than the i3.

You have a point, but if you are promoting trinity in OEM prebuilts, the prices have to come down quite a bit. I am sure they will come down somewhat as supply increases and the newness wears off. The A10 units I have seen in big box stores have been priced in the 800.00 range, which is far too expensive. You can get an i5 intel system for around 500 to 600 dollars. At that price you could get a 7750 and pay someone to install it for you and still come out near the A10 price if not lower. And such a system would destroy trinity in both CPU and GPU performance.

 

[Arkaign]

I can't speak for borderlands 2, but Guild Wars is perfectly playable on my cheap llano laptop. I bet it would run pretty decent on the higher-end trinity units. Admittedly I run it with fairly low settings, but you are talking about consoles so obviously you don't care at all about graphic quality

Consoles certainly aren't the holy grail, I've heard plenty of stories of some newer games slowing to a crawl in certain areas on the PS3 & XBox.

Oh I'm not a big console fan by any means. I have a 360, but I've used it for probably 20 minutes total. I'm a PC gamer.

The fact remains though that console games by and large work, and one doens't have to worry about not having the right driver, about their video card or CPU not being up to spec, etc. Hell, even many mainstream big-release PC games have been plagued by problems. Diablo 3 and BF3 have both had massive issues that I've personally been affected by, and that rarely seems to be the case with consoles.

Hahha, the biggest issue with consoles seems to be the RROD failures, I've known people that have had 5+ Xbox 360s die, amazing.

I just find it strange that a certain small number of people get excited about Llano, or Trinity, or even HD4000 (why?????), when they're all pretty terrible at gaming. I don't find many people thrilled with a 6670 or GT640, but somehow a mediocre cpu with a mediocre gpu in one package is thrilling? Well, I guess in the end it does make cheap laptops more usable than before. Personally I don't want to run anything that isn't smooth in at least 1080p/1200p resolution with high to max details.

 

[Arkaign]

You have a point, but if you are promoting trinity in OEM prebuilts, the prices have to come down quite a bit. I am sure they will come down somewhat as supply increases and the newness wears off. The A10 units I have seen in big box stores have been priced in the 800.00 range, which is far too expensive. You can get an i5 intel system for around 500 to 600 dollars. At that price you could get a 7750 and pay someone to install it for you and still come out near the A10 price if not lower. And such a system would destroy trinity in both CPU and GPU performance.

To add to that, a $400 basic Phenom II or i3 system with a $200-$250 GPU would utterly annihilate either in terms of gaming while still being perfectly fine for windows/email/internetz/office stuff. One might have to toss in a $50 500W PSU, but that's no problem when comparing to $800+.

 

[Hubb1e]

You have a point, but if you are promoting trinity in OEM prebuilts, the prices have to come down quite a bit. I am sure they will come down somewhat as supply increases and the newness wears off. The A10 units I have seen in big box stores have been priced in the 800.00 range, which is far too expensive. You can get an i5 intel system for around 500 to 600 dollars. At that price you could get a 7750 and pay someone to install it for you and still come out near the A10 price if not lower. And such a system would destroy trinity in both CPU and GPU performance.

Yeah, the OEM market if full of confusion for consumers. I found one OEM A-10 PC on newegg for $750 and it comes with a 7470 dedicated graphics card which is slower than the iGPU.

 

[pcsavvy]

I am waiting for an objective review of Trinity to see how well or bad it stacks up to LLano and Intel at the same price point.
I would like to see some objective reviews that will give a good overall report about the the real world performance of Trinity and how it fits in the APU and CPU markets.
I am sure it is an improvement over LLano and maybe I3 but who knows for sure at this point.

 

[Hmoobphajej]

Well trinity is built on the new PD core and from that, I believe the assumption is about 10% increase from BD which would equate to Stars I believe. So it should atleast be as fast as Llano when it comes to CPU but it should be a much higher increase when it comes to the iGPU.

I'm looking at building a cheap build with the trinity cpus, but before pulling the trigger I want to see some reviews on them also. Hopefully I can get the cpu for a decent price when it comes out.

 

[inf64]

I am waiting for an objective review of Trinity to see how well or bad it stacks up to LLano and Intel at the same price point.
I would like to see some objective reviews that will give a good overall report about the the real world performance of Trinity and how it fits in the APU and CPU markets.
I am sure it is an improvement over LLano and maybe I3 but who knows for sure at this point.

There is a review already. THG did it and compared it to A8 Llano and i3s.

 

[Phynaz]

This thread is about Trinity, if you or anyone else dont have anything to say about the topic then please stay away.

Get off it, you troll Intel threads constantly.

Ok, I'll say something about the topic. Trinity isn't AMD's savior, it will be just as fundamentally flawed as Derpdozer. I'm sure it will have passable graphics for the mass market. It's CPU performance will still be crap compared to Intel. Regardless of what AMD preaches to their acolytes, CPU matters...A lot more than GPU performance matters.

Anybody can always upgrade the graphics performance of an Intel CPU by adding in an expansion card - it's why we have expansion slots. Nobody can do that to increase the CPU performance of an AMD CPU.

Makes buying an AMD CPU a rather dumb purchase.

 

[Hubb1e]

THG's conclusion was that Trinity featured slightly better x86 performance than Llano and 10-25% better GPU performance. Since Llano is already about 20% faster GPU performance than HD4000 and HD2000 and HD2500 graphics are much slower than that the conclusion was that Trinity offered acceptable CPU performance and good GPU performance that gave it playable framerates in the test suite games at moderate resolutions and medium-high graphics settings.

On the CPU alone, the i3s won the single threaded workloads and the A10 won the mutlithreaded workloads but both were in the same ballpark of performance.

No overclocking was done.

 

[Hubb1e]

Ok, I'll say something about the topic. Trinity isn't AMD's savior, it will be just as fundamentally flawed as Derpdozer. I'm sure it will have passable graphics for the mass market. It's CPU performance will still be crap compared to Intel. Regardless of what AMD preaches to their acolytes, CPU matters...A lot more than GPU performance matters.

Anybody can always upgrade the graphics performance of an Intel CPU by adding in an expansion card - it why we have expansion slots. Nobody can do that to increase the CPU performance of an AMD CPU.

Makes buying an AMD CPU a rather dumb purchase.

Who is this "Anybody" that you speak of that can figure out which CPUs their motherboards support, update the bios to support those new CPUs, pop off the CPU cooler, drop in a new CPU, apply thermal grease, and tighten back up the CPU cooler. Those are not the majority of buyers. Enthusiasts yes, but not even most technically savvy 16 year olds would attempt that. It's not like dropping in a new video card or adding a harddrive. It is a pretty risky operation.

In today's market where even a 2ghz core 2 duo is enough CPU for most desktop tasks Trinity puts the performance where it is needed. In the GPU so the average computer can now play diablo III

 

[Phynaz]

Who is this "Anybody" that you speak of that can figure out which CPUs their motherboards support, update the bios to support those new CPUs, pop off the CPU cooler, drop in a new CPU, apply thermal grease, and tighten back up the CPU cooler. Those are not the majority of buyers. Enthusiasts yes, but not even most technically savvy 16 year olds would attempt that. It's not like dropping in a new video card or adding a harddrive. It is a pretty risky operation.

In today's market where even a 2ghz core 2 duo is enough CPU for most desktop tasks Trinity puts the performance where it is needed. In the GPU so the average computer can now play diablo III

Massive reading comprehension failure.

What are these "most" desktop tasks you speak of? Maybe if the only thing you run is MS Word. Everything else takes CPU power.

Let's look at Amazon's top selling application software, shall we?

1. MS Office
2. Photoshop Lightroom
3. Quickbooks
4. Photoshop Elements
5. VHS to DVD Converter
6. Premier Elements
6. Acrobat
7. Naturally Speaking
8. Premier CS6

Which of those do you really think will run well on that six year old CPU that you say is enough for "most"? How about once you throw in a security suite and start multitasking?

 

[sefsefsefsef]

Massive reading comprehension failure.

What are these "most" desktop tasks you speak of? Maybe if the only thing you run is MS Word. Everything else takes CPU power.

Let's look at Amazon's top selling application software, shall we?

1. MS Office
2. Photoshop Lightroom
3. Quickbooks
4. Photoshop Elements
5. VHS to DVD Converter
6. Premier Elements
6. Acrobat
7. Naturally Speaking
8. Premier CS6

Which of those do you really think will run well on that six year old CPU that you say is enough for "most"? How about once you throw in a security suite and start multitasking?

I've only ever heard of half of those, and I've only ever used one of them (Office). I expect most home users have only ever used Office from that list. Web browsing is the #1 app for PCs, and old/slow CPUs can do that just fine (see: ARM tablets).

Games and professional apps appreciate CPU horsepower, but they don't represent the "most" common computer tasks.

 

[Phynaz]

Web browsing is the #1 app for home PCs, and old/slow CPUs can do that just fine (see: ARM tablets).

FTFY.

BTW, home PC's make up about 9% of the entire PC market.

 

[nonameo]

If you polish a turd what do you get?

an episode of mythbusters?

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/polishing-a-turd-minimyth.htm

 

[ShadowVVL]

an episode of mythbusters? http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/my...d-minimyth.htm

Nice,I hadn't seen that one.

 

[wlee15]

Massive reading comprehension failure.

What are these "most" desktop tasks you speak of? Maybe if the only thing you run is MS Word. Everything else takes CPU power.

Let's look at Amazon's top selling application software, shall we?

1. MS Office
2. Photoshop Lightroom
3. Quickbooks
4. Photoshop Elements
5. VHS to DVD Converter
6. Premier Elements
6. Acrobat
7. Naturally Speaking
8. Premier CS6

Which of those do you really think will run well on that six year old CPU that you say is enough for "most"? How about once you throw in a security suite and start multitasking?

All of them.

 

[piesquared]

Get off it, you troll Intel threads constantly.

Ok, I'll say something about the topic. Trinity isn't AMD's savior, it will be just as fundamentally flawed as Derpdozer. I'm sure it will have passable graphics for the mass market. It's CPU performance will still be crap compared to Intel. Regardless of what AMD preaches to their acolytes, CPU matters...A lot more than GPU performance matters.

Anybody can always upgrade the graphics performance of an Intel CPU by adding in an expansion card - it's why we have expansion slots. Nobody can do that to increase the CPU performance of an AMD CPU.

Makes buying an AMD CPU a rather dumb purchase.

With AMD's APUs you don't have to upgrade anything, with intel's slide show projector you do. Why would you recommend that people compromise and get a slower alternative, the need to upgrade right out of the gate, and costs more money. Yeah, investors are really good for the community. :rollseyes: And you forgot to mention that adding that same GPU to AMD's gGPU will add to the performance not replace it. Another lovely compromise that you get to pay more for with intel.