AMD Ryzen 5000 Builders Thread

[B-Riz]

	Cores Threads	Base Freq	Turbo Freq	L3 Cache	TDP	MSRP
Ryzen 9 5950X	16c/32t	3400	4900	64 MB	105 W	$799
Ryzen 9 5900X	12c/24t	3700	4800	64 MB	105 W	$549
Ryzen 7 5800X	8c/16t	3800	4700	32 MB	105 W	$449
Ryzen 5 5600X	6c/12t	3700	4600	32 MB	65 W	$299

5600X comes with cooler, the rest do not.

above from https://www.anandtech.com/show/1614...en-3-on-nov-5th-19-ipc-claims-best-gaming-cpu

 

[igor_kavinski]

I think AM4 will sadly be left behind in the Win12 world and AMD probably won't even try to convince Microsoft to have support for it. Knowing Microsoft, they will make NPU mandatory. Should be possible to still have a compatible system with a graphics card meeting the minimum AI TOPS requirement but that's a big maybe.

 

[Thunder 57]

I think AM4 will sadly be left behind in the Win12 world and AMD probably won't even try to convince Microsoft to have support for it. Knowing Microsoft, they will make NPU mandatory. Should be possible to still have a compatible system with a graphics card meeting the minimum AI TOPS requirement but that's a big maybe.

Technically OG Zen is not supported by Windows 11. Only Zen+ and newer. I'm not worried though as there may be workarounds like there are for Win 11. Not to mention AM4 will very likely be obsolete by the time Win 12 comes around.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

How so? You save the cost of a new motherboard/memory and the time reinstalling the OS and setting everything up unless you trust the OS to handle all of the new parts OK (I've gotten away with it, but don't count on it).

What's your next argument? That you are stuck with PCIe 3 and not PCIe 4?

I think there is a disconnect/miscommunication happening. I for one, am not contending when the industry definition of "dead platform" occurs. I am contending that the definition is meaningless by any practical or chronological measure. The 5700X3D released in 2024. It was not available for purchase before that. It is entirely irrelevant that it is a derivative of the 5800X3D. Why? Because in 2024 we could buy a brand new SKU for the first time and put it in a board from 2017- 2018 as long as the model received a bios update. That's longevity. For anyone that buys a 5500X3D, that'll be a SKU that never existed before 2025. That's also chronological and practical longevity.

AM4 = "What is dead may never die" ☠️

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think AM4 will sadly be left behind in the Win12 world

Who cares? DIY is not going to be constrained by MS. I am already moving my PCs to Linux as the primary OS. For all AMD systems, performance is overall better than windows too. I am starting to think windows is the one going to get left behind by DIY gamers in the next few years.

 

[igor_kavinski]

For anyone that buys a 5500X3D, that'll be a SKU that never existed before 2025. That's also chronological and practical longevity.

At least should receive support for 3 years so 2028.

 

[Thunder 57]

I think there is a disconnect/miscommunication happening. I for one, am not contending when the industry definition of "dead platform" occurs. I am contending that the definition is meaningless by any practical or chronological measure. The 5700X3D released in 2024. It was not available for purchase before that. It is entirely irrelevant that it is a derivative of the 5800X3D. Why? Because in 2024 we could buy a brand new SKU for the first time and put it in a board from 2017- 2018 as long as the model received a bios update. That's longevity. For anyone that buys a 5500X3D, that'll be a SKU that never existed before 2025. That's also chronological and practical longevity.

AM4 = "What is dead may never die" ☠️

It is meaningless. Is it dead? Technically not. Would a build a new system on AM4 in current year? I'd have to think of a darn good use case. Would I upgrade an AM4 platform these days? I think if you haven't by now there probably wasn't a need to.

Who cares? DIY is not going to be constrained by MS. I am already moving my PCs to Linux as the primary OS. For all AMD systems, performance is overall better than windows too. I am starting to think windows is the one going to get left behind by DIY gamers in the next few years.

Valve could certainly make a push towards Linux. I am skeptical about "the next few years" though. Far too much momentum though it has slowed. Color me cautious over all of the "Year of Linux Desktop" 's that have come and gone.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Color me cautious over all of the "Year of Linux Desktop" 's that have come and gone.

Don't let me color you; I draw outside the lines And no it hasn't. It was always a stupid slogan. It is more a snowball on a slight decline. It is moving slow but it continues to get bigger. Check the numbers.

"Would I upgrade an AM4 platform these days? I think if you haven't by now there probably wasn't a need to." GTFOOH wit dat 💩. You don't get to decide when someone has the money or need. Or what their use case is.

EDIT: Imma dunk on that "probably wasn't a need to" remark - 5 of the top 10 best sellers on Amazon are Zen 3 including the 5700X3D. A whole bunch of shoppers, be it new build or upgrading, are choosing AM4. https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computer-CPU-Processors/zgbs/pc/229189

 

[Thunder 57]

Don't let me color you; I draw outside the lines And no it hasn't. It was always a stupid slogan. It is more a snowball on a slight decline. It is moving slow but it continues to get bigger. Check the numbers.

"Would I upgrade an AM4 platform these days? I think if you haven't by now there probably wasn't a need to." GTFOOH wit dat 💩. You don't get to decide when someone has the money or need. Or what their use case is.

EDIT: Imma dunk on that "probably wasn't a need to" remark - 5 of the top 10 best sellers on Amazon are Zen 3 including the 5700X3D. A whole bunch of shoppers, be it new build or upgrading, are choosing AM4. https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computer-CPU-Processors/zgbs/pc/229189

I said "Would I upgrade", and I don't think I would. Clearly plenty of other people disagree. Maybe they held on to Zen or Zen 2 for a long time and want that last upgrade.

Also I think the 5700X3D ship has sailed. A year ago it was $200 or even less. Today it is $265. I expect it will do just what the 5800X3D did when stock ran low/out and climb in price. I sure wouldn't pay $110 more for a 5700X3D than a vanilla 5700X. That's likely be better spent on a GPU or just holding on to for the future. But if someone wants the best for gaming on AM4 and plans to hold on to that for awhile it could be worth it to them.

 

[Shmee]

I am still using a 5800X3D in my main comp, and a 5900X in my Quakecon/travel comp.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Philip offers his input on upgrading from 1800X to a 5700X3D. He didn't change DDR speed, and the fastest GPU he uses is a 5060ti 16GB. It makes for a realistic use case. He does point out benchmarking is meh, and he might do better playing games and telling you how he felt the experience was. That is always my preferred metric, not numbers or charts, but the gameplay experience. I don't agree with him in thinking the most gameplay sensitive areas would be better to test than the most demanding. He makes a good point that sometimes those areas are not important because you are just going from one place to another not in those critical gaming moments. But I think it's good to see the worst case scenario because in some games the 2 scenarios merge.

Steve from GN put in the latest news headline "9 years of AM4" He makes the joke AM4Ever, or perhaps it was AM4 forever. He gets it.

 

[jpiniero]

Insane DDR4 price spikes mean last-gen RAM loses its value luster versus DDR5 — prices have nearly tripled in just two months

DDR4 approaches its end of life, but plenty of buyers still want the older memory, and its remaining suppliers are raking it in.

www.tomshardware.com

Looks like DDR4 is finally headed to being EOL. Took 'em long enough to do the transition.

It does mean that AM4 will finally have to end. AMD of course could just sell the remaining product to upgraders.

 

[marees]

Insane DDR4 price spikes mean last-gen RAM loses its value luster versus DDR5 — prices have nearly tripled in just two months

DDR4 approaches its end of life, but plenty of buyers still want the older memory, and its remaining suppliers are raking it in.

www.tomshardware.com

Looks like DDR4 is finally headed to being EOL. Took 'em long enough to do the transition.

It does mean that AM4 will finally have to end. AMD of course could just sell the remaining product to upgraders.

That is a click bait headline

I believe DDR 4 is still cheaper

 

[marees]

Insane DDR4 price spikes mean last-gen RAM loses its value luster versus DDR5 — prices have nearly tripled in just two months

DDR4 approaches its end of life, but plenty of buyers still want the older memory, and its remaining suppliers are raking it in.

www.tomshardware.com

Looks like DDR4 is finally headed to being EOL. Took 'em long enough to do the transition.

It does mean that AM4 will finally have to end. AMD of course could just sell the remaining product to upgraders.

Check these 2 comments

https://twitter.com/x/status/1938244423034212751

https://twitter.com/x/status/1938357299841798609

 

[jpiniero]

Well, I had looked at Dram Exchange's prices... and unlike the GDDR prices shown, it shows the speeds too (3200 for DDR4 and 4800/5600 for DDR5).

Now 2x is def an exaggeration. But with Micron ending production, DDR4 prices (you'd have to think) are only going up.

 

[marees]

According to a paywalled report from Digitimes (via OC3D), both Samsung and SK Hynix are holding off on phasing out DDR4 production, at least for now, in a gamble to cash in on the recent price surge. However, a risk lies in producing just enough product to move without it stagnating due to overstock, but then possibly removing the incentive for continued DDR5 adoption, which both companies are already invested in.

DDR4 Isn’t Dead Yet, as Chip Manufacturers Are Now Rumored to Delay Product Phase-Out amid Skyrocketing Prices

An interesting turn of events has led Samsung and SK Hynix to reportedly delay plans to wind down production of DDR4 modules.

www.thefpsreview.com

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Chinese will probably keep making it for a couple years. Not that I would mind it getting expensive, I have 3 or 4 good kits I could sell.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Chinese will probably keep making it for a couple years. Not that I would mind it getting expensive, I have 3 or 4 good kits I could sell.

I wouldn't mind it getting expensive either if they would make DDR4-4600 CL14 64GB kits. They hit a wall and then stopped all R&D on it

 

[Markfw]

I think this getting WAY OT for a 500 Ryzen builders thread.

edit: all this ddr4 talk needs its own thread.

 

[gdansk]

I think my 5900X has degraded somehow. I keep getting lock ups and machine check exceptions.
It has been running linux 24/7 for years now but suddenly started this problem.

Still need to put it in a different board to be sure. But I put a 3600X in the same board and it didn't crash for many days now. Curious.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I think my 5900X has degraded somehow.

Maybe the mobo default overclocking did that.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think this getting WAY OT for a 500 Ryzen builders thread.

edit: all this ddr4 talk needs its own thread.

Zen 3 is the best selling retail CPU lineup of all time. It still outsells everything the competition makes. If DDR4 gets unduly expensive, then far less people will choose it. Since this is the Zen 3 builders thread, nothing could be more relevant to the discussion than ram prices killing its viability for ultra budget builds.

Maybe the mobo default overclocking did that.

This. If you don't take action in the UEFI, but instead leave it at the aggressive OOB settings every AM4 board I've ever built with uses? Good chance it has been pumping as much as 1.5v or more through the CPU for years.

As I've written many times; first thing I do is ECO with the +200MHz boost. Or a negative CO offset of 20 or more, depending on how good the silicon lottery gods have been to me.

There have been a number of threads here over the last couple of years concerning degraded AM4 CPUs. Most have been Zen 2, but Zen 3 is over 5 years old now, and I would not be surprised Pikachu if some are starting to degrade. I just saw Bryan from TYC troubleshoot a 5800X with bent pins and he had to downclock it to get it stable.

 

[igor_kavinski]

As I've written many times; first thing I do is ECO with the +200MHz boost. Or a negative CO offset of 20 or more, depending on how good the silicon lottery gods have been to me.

How old is your oldest Zen 3 CPU using those settings without issue? Do these settings cap the voltage at 1.3V or less?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

How old is your oldest Zen 3 CPU using those settings without issue? Do these settings cap the voltage at 1.3V or less?

I was just testing the B580 with a 3700X in Spidey MM. And yes, 1.2xx volts is about as high as it goes in ECO. If it boke the 1.3v barrier it was when I was not logging with HWiNFO. BTW, the CPU overhead was dastardly. At one point at 1440p XeSS quality and RT reflections on high, it froze for a good 10 seconds while I watched assets load in. GPU usage was 50-65%. B450 gen 3 with 4x8GB cl16 3200.

I have a Ryzen Pro 2400g in a Deskmini that is nuke proof. It was a working pull from an office box that I bought on Ebay a couple years ago. It works great with Bazzite.

On the other hand: The 5600G system I traded my friend for shotguns, became unstable a few months back with the auto overclock i.e. the MSI game mode in the UEFI. Thing was running 4.7GHz all core for years that way. He brought it over and after a discussion of what he does with his PC, we put it to default with no PBO. It has been running well since. But at 3.9GHz it had better. But he only does daily driver stuff and old games, I mean really old games.

EDIT: I swapped to the 5600X3D. Let me hit it with cinebench, I be back.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

CB24 MT after 11 minutes

 

[Hans Gruber]

I was just testing the B580 with a 3700X in Spidey MM. And yes, 1.2xx volts is about as high as it goes in ECO. If it boke the 1.3v barrier it was when I was not logging with HWiNFO. BTW, the CPU overhead was dastardly. At one point at 1440p XeSS quality and RT reflections on high, it froze for a good 10 seconds while I watched assets load in. GPU usage was 50-65%. B450 gen 3 with 4x8GB cl16 3200.

I have a Ryzen Pro 2400g in a Deskmini that is nuke proof. It was a working pull from an office box that I bought on Ebay a couple years ago. It works great with Bazzite.

On the other hand: The 5600G system I traded my friend for shotguns, became unstable a few months back with the auto overclock i.e. the MSI game mode in the UEFI. Thing was running 4.7GHz all core for years that way. He brought it over and after a discussion of what he does with his PC, we put it to default with no PBO. It has been running well since. But at 3.9GHz it had better. But he only does daily driver stuff and old games, I mean really old games.

EDIT: I swapped to the 5600X3D. Let me hit it with cinebench, I be back.

I think the instability has to do with the Windows OS. Everybody has been having random crashes using Windows in the last year. I just had my PC crash with a hard hang that would not even respond to holding down the power button for 10 seconds. I had to shut it off from the power supply. It may be a Windows 11 issue with all of the updates. It could be a Windows 10 issue as well.

Windows 11 24H2 caused a ton of issues with AMD processors. I think the crashes have more to do with that as well as the updates for Windows 11 causing instability. It's getting better but is still an issue for my PC.