- Mar 15, 2014
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That gives me two thoughts.
First i think "what AMD could do with Microsoft financial backing" and then i come to my senses "what will happen to our industry once Microsoft gets their hands on a key player and strangles it"
That gives me two thoughts.
First i think "what AMD could do with Microsoft financial backing" and then i come to my senses "what will happen to our industry once Microsoft gets their hands on a key player and strangles it"
Gloomy
Golden Member
- Oct 12, 2010
- 1,469
- 21
- 81
I'm not sure why Microsoft would buy a company so inept they're constantly in the red despite having a goldmine tech portfolio.
Ah, sorry for the mistake.
Ah, sorry for the mistake.
You've been using this same rational since Mantle was first announced. Yet, devs are still signing on. Obviously you are missing something. You've also said that Mantle wasn't needed at all that DX11 with MT accomplished the same thing. MS announcing DX12 with the same type of programming features as Mantle also means that you missed something there. I think you need to face it that you've been wrong all along and rethink things. It's looking like Mantle is the game changer that AMD and Johan were claiming.
AnandThenMan
Diamond Member
- Nov 11, 2004
- 3,991
- 627
- 126
AMD is not inept, they lack the resources (money) to out battle Intel. Give the likes of Intel the budget of AMD and let's see how well they do. Let's put it this way, AMD was able to do what Microsoft could not, come up with an API that for all account MS is going to attempt to copy. An inept company is not capable of doing this.
I agree with 3DVagabond, it's extremely obvious at this point that Mantle has shaken up the entire API landscape and there's no going back. MS had to jump on board and make their announcements even though it's 2 years out before we might see DX12. That speaks volumes.
Sounds like FreeSync. Oh wait, that is awesome. My mistake.
D:
The Forza 5 techdemo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-f4sMSlexA
When this is "alpha" what should we call Star Swarm?
Really AMD is full of Lies
MS,AMD and Nvidia said MS is developing Dx12 since 4 years and mantle was developing 2 years.
So AMD did not do anything because MS planned DX12 before AMD Mantle.
Recently AMD also said that there is no DX12 back in May or June they said so u can Google.
nVidia having a conversation with MS 4 years ago is being stretched into they started actively developing it 4 years ago.
I mean the facts are in the open with Johan saying DX12 is essentially Mantle, so if you don't care for the statement from the main developer of Mantle, fine... but we're to take your advice that they are all full of lies??
Based on what? What evidence do you have that Mantle isn't the foundation for DX12?
I've often wondered if the reason why the AMD exec said there will be no DX12 is because DX12 is Mantle. We also have some cryptic twitter responses from repi that hint at just that possibility, and he knows far more about this topic than any forum poster and 90% of the game dev community.
Either way, AMD has two Mantle games out now and a working tech demo, and Microsoft has a demo that could easily just be a video of console footage. Also, Microsoft has nothing for release for almost 2 years after this announcement. By all means continue showing your love for DX12. I'll test it out Holiday 2015 and see what it's all about then.
Mantle and I will be old friends by that time once I get this r9 290 installed tomorrow.
Go read article of Dx12 Both Nvidia and AMD both Said we are deeply involved with Ms for development of DX12 since 4 years go read that than we talk.
DX12>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mantle.
And Microsoft makes it clear that they used their experience from the Xbox One API to design DX12.
An API which has been released much earlier than Mantle.
Gloomy
Golden Member
- Oct 12, 2010
- 1,469
- 21
- 81
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D3D12 has the full support of every single significant IHV in the PC and ultra mobile space, and will also have the support of every single significant game developer too when all is said and done. Considering that Microsoft has already demonstrated huge improvements to real world applications such as 3dmark and Forza 5 at an alpha stage, and considering the overwhelming industry support for this IHV-agnostic and industry standard API, classifying D3D12 as "empty PR" hardly makes sense.
The angst towards DX12 in this thread is amazing.. DX12 will become an industry standard whether you like it or not, and it will benefit gamers across multiple architectural platforms, something which Mantle could never do..
After some consideration, I have decided that DX12 is more similar to Mantle than I had previously thought. We all know that Microsoft had plans to port the Xbox One's low level API to Windows, so I now believe that DX12 is a more refined and expanded version of the Xbox One's API, enhanced for multi-architectural support and backward compatibility..
Those of you saying that DX12 is a rip off of Mantle are clearly delusional. It is more likely that Mantle was AMD's sole attempt to port the Xbox One's low level API to Windows for it's GCN based GPUs, rather than Microsoft merely copying Mantle.. AMD could never have created Mantle without Microsoft's blessing, seeing as it borrows quite a bit of technology from D3D11..
Also, as DX12 runs across multiple architectures and is backward compatible with DX11, it must have taken YEARS to formulate and finalize the standard, as something like this obviously doesn't occur overnight and requires the input and cooperation of multiple IHVs...
Yes, Mantle will get it's time in the Sun, but since it's architecture exclusive, it's simply not in the same class as DX12 when it comes to importance and will eventually die out as DX12 gains a solid foothold.
And DX12's market penetration will occur much, MUCH faster due to the main performance benefits being fully backward compatible with DX11 hardware. If DX12 is released for Windows 8/8.1, which I think is very likely, I would expect performance oriented DX12 updates and patches for DX11 games starting in the first half of next year, with full blown native DX12 games in 3rd or 4th quarter when Windows 9 arrives..
Mantle is serving it's purpose, which was to make AMD more competitive with NVidia in the short term, and serve as a unique feature with which to attract gamers.. But it was never intended as a long term solution..
After some consideration, I have decided that DX12 is more similar to Mantle than I had previously thought. We all know that Microsoft had plans to port the Xbox One's low level API to Windows, so I now believe that DX12 is a more refined and expanded version of the Xbox One's API, enhanced for multi-architectural support and backward compatibility..
Those of you saying that DX12 is a rip off of Mantle are clearly delusional. It is more likely that Mantle was AMD's sole attempt to port the Xbox One's low level API to Windows for it's GCN based GPUs, rather than Microsoft merely copying Mantle.. AMD could never have created Mantle without Microsoft's blessing, seeing as it borrows quite a bit of technology from D3D11..
Also, as DX12 runs across multiple architectures and is backward compatible with DX11, it must have taken YEARS to formulate and finalize the standard, as something like this obviously doesn't occur overnight and requires the input and cooperation of multiple IHVs...
Yes, Mantle will get it's time in the Sun, but since it's architecture exclusive, it's simply not in the same class as DX12 when it comes to importance and will eventually die out as DX12 gains a solid foothold.
And DX12's market penetration will occur much, MUCH faster due to the main performance benefits being fully backward compatible with DX11 hardware. If DX12 is released for Windows 8/8.1, which I think is very likely, I would expect performance oriented DX12 updates and patches for DX11 games starting in the first half of next year, with full blown native DX12 games in 3rd or 4th quarter when Windows 9 arrives..
Mantle is serving it's purpose, which was to make AMD more competitive with NVidia in the short term, and serve as a unique feature with which to attract gamers.. But it was never intended as a long term solution..
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The only thing i want to know is if all DX11 Nvidia cards will support DX12, why its only GCN on AMD side? HD5000 and HD6000 are also full DX11.
Probably because HD 5000 and 6000 series are VLIW architectures and AMD doesn't want to do the extra work..
norseamd
Lifer
- Dec 13, 2013
- 13,990
- 180
- 106
hard to know how much sense this would make from microsoft.
the most probable company to buy amd would probably be arm
Rather than MS or AMD ripping off each other for the same idea/goals, isn't it more believable to see them actually working together to implement this new API, Xbone/Mantle -> DX12, because a console hardware and dev SDK would also take years to finalize and thus, would have to be co-developed.
It would have been a collaboration for several years leading up to Xbone developer kits many months before its retail launch. The engineers from both sides would have worked very close in fact, which is why DX12 is so similar, the foundation work has been done. They just need to spend the next year making sure it works for non GCN GPUs.
What we know so far (public statements): Johan/DICE approached AMD years ago and ask for assistance to develop a closer to metal API. AMD won the console contract several years ago (via leaks), they would have to give MS engineers for them to devise an API. We can speculate what happened afterwards and who was/is responsible, but certainly DICE have proven themselves masters of rendering. To me, it makes more sense for MS to leverage the work of DICE/AMD in Mantle for DX12 than vice versa.
It would have been a collaboration for several years leading up to Xbone developer kits many months before its retail launch. The engineers from both sides would have worked very close in fact, which is why DX12 is so similar, the foundation work has been done. They just need to spend the next year making sure it works for non GCN GPUs.
What we know so far (public statements): Johan/DICE approached AMD years ago and ask for assistance to develop a closer to metal API. AMD won the console contract several years ago (via leaks), they would have to give MS engineers for them to devise an API. We can speculate what happened afterwards and who was/is responsible, but certainly DICE have proven themselves masters of rendering. To me, it makes more sense for MS to leverage the work of DICE/AMD in Mantle for DX12 than vice versa.
Because hd5000 and 6000 will be eol by the time dx12 arrives so its pointless to get it working on them. I'm fact Fermi will be close to eol as well so the statement saying they are supported with dx12 is just to stop people with aging cards from buying amd gpus to experience mantle now.
I see no angst against dx12, but endless amounts of it towards mantle. Why would anyone posting about the pros of mantle be mad? They are the same pros as dx12. Once dx12 hits all the amd users will continue to enjoy the same low level api they already did for 1.5 years.
I actually sense a lot of jealousy from posters here and PR folks trying to save face with the dx12 press conference.
ShintaiDK
Lifer
- Apr 22, 2012
- 20,378
- 146
- 106
Buying AMD=no x86.
And there is no money in AMD. Its like throwing money away. MS would demand a return of 20%+ I bet on any investment as such. AMD cant even do 1% in good times. And any investment today would first yield result in 4-5 years.
AMD sits on ~15% CPU or so today and 35% dGPU, both are shrinking.
And do I have to mention the WSA to 2024?
On the topic, there will be some new DX12 features as well. So for a card to be real DX12 new hardware is needed. No current hardware supports all functions. But all DX11.0 hardware is capable of the benefit.
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