AMD @ GDC: Partnership with MS next-generation graphics.

[sontin]

You need to go back and do some more reading, DX12 is for the XB1 ported to PC.

Bingo. Because the Xbox One DX11.x API is ahead of the Windows DX11.x API.
Microsoft said it back in october:

We are very excited that with the launch of Xbox One, we can now bring the latest generation of Direct3D 11 to console. The Xbox One graphics API is “Direct3D 11.x” and the Xbox One hardware provides a superset of Direct3D 11.2

With Xbox One we have also made significant enhancements to the implementation of Direct3D 11, especially in the area of runtime overhead. The result is a very streamlined, “close to metal” level of runtime performance. In conjunction with the third generation PIX performance tool for Xbox One, developers can use Direct3D 11 to unlock the full performance potential of the console.

We are getting excellent feedback from the industry around the areas that are most important for future API development, and that feedback is directly informing our Direct3D development direction. We’re continually innovating in areas of performance, functionality and debug and performance tooling for Xbox One. We’re also working with our ISV and IHV partners on future efforts, including bringing the lightweight runtime and tooling capabilities of the Xbox One Direct3D implementation to Windows, and identifying the next generation of advanced 3D graphics technologies.

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

Hm, Mantle is a copy of Microsoft's Xbox One DX11.x API. :sneaky:

 

[krumme]

Unfortunately DX12 was stuck in the Xerox and was 1½ year late

 

[caswow]

Bingo. Because the Xbox One DX11.x API is ahead of the Windows DX11.x API.
Microsoft said it back in october:





http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/appbuilder/archive/2013/10/14/raising-the-bar-with-direct3d.aspx

Hm, Mantle is a copy of Microsoft's Xbox One DX11.x API. :sneaky:

AMD apparently did a pretty big job by releasing "dx12" 2 Years earlier than the big elephant ms.

 

[NTMBK]

@repi Why does it feel like I am reading Mantle Programming Guide again?

@petr_tomicek

It's Mantle.

 

[sontin]

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Direc...ellen-Grafikkarten-Unsere-Eindruecke-1114403/

 

[krumme]

Seriously. Ms needs to do something about windows and their idiotic selfharming monopoly policy.

Xp users is soon to be attacked by malware because they try to get users to the unproductive win8. Its a disaster. They should care about them. Support them. And then give them a windows 9 that isnt some nokia mobile clown interface.

They try to force junk into people instead of beeing trully innovative and care about their core customers.

"Dx12" is fine albeit 2 years late. But who actually cares anymore? Its like celebrating nokia. It not cool.

Seeing the presentation was like beeing at a funeral. Except the family was missing here.

Warning issued for inflammatory language.
-- stahlhart

 

[AnandThenMan]

And what would ms incentive be to use dx12 on win7?

To prevent people from jumping ship to say STEAM OS.

 

[ASM-coder]

Xp users is soon to be attacked by malware because they try to get users to the unproductive win8.

I agree with most things you say, except this statement.
Microsoft can't be expected to support XP forever.
XP users have always been vulnerable to malware, so what difference does it make if Microsoft drops so called support.
Win8 is a very good OS. It is faster and more stable than any of its predecessors.

 

[3DVagabond]

Ah,
Microsoft chose nVidia to showcase DX12. A fix to their problem would be a new console. D:

Which proves...?

I want to see how much stretching and rationalizing it's going to take to show how that proves anything. Absolutely anything at all.

 

[3DVagabond]

The Mantle name is probably dead. AMD will hopefully support DirectX 12, and transition their Mantle games to DirectX 12. AMD liked to talk about supporting other vendors with Mantle, and they got their wish- they just need to accept the DirectX name.

(Of course, "transition" may consist of find-and-replace "Mantle" with "DirectX", but that's another matter.)

The only casualty in this is the possibility of Mantle on Linux. Which was, of course, Microsoft's goal.

Keep in mind that DX is tied to Windows and Mantle is not. We have to see how that plays out. Hopefully AMD will leverage that and if Mantle and DX12 are truly "the same" we'll see if other companies GPU's will choose to not run Mantle on other platforms because it's AMD's.

 

[krumme]

I agree with most things you say, except this statement.
Microsoft can't be expected to support XP forever.
XP users have always been vulnerable to malware, so what difference does it make if Microsoft drops so called support.
Win8 is a very good OS. It is faster and more stable than any of its predecessors.

Win 8 is faster and perhaps more stable than win 7. But when you cant find things its frustrating and people dont want a new interface.

Each time i get a new car there is more bottoms and stupid dials and screens for no use. And often things is moved. Wtf!!! Lol. As if the car is better doing that. My old Volvo 740 was better than all that modern junk. It was 1175 kg btw

Now the customers stay away from win 8 to an alarming rate. Its outright a disaster for ms and the api only plays a minor part. But the api becomes uninteresting if there is no market.

As it is today dx 12 is living as a future posibility because of mantle, ps4 and xbox. And ms either needs win9 to be a success, the xbox to be strong or get dx12 on win 7.

I wouldnt bet on xbot. Neither that win9 will be a huge success in h1 2015. They need dx12 on win7 as safeguarding.

 

[ASM-coder]

I wouldnt bet on xbot. Neither that win9 will be a huge success in h1 2015. They need dx12 on win7 as safeguarding.

Microsoft will need to do some backpedaling for that to happen.

 

[ams23]

"Dx12" is fine albeit 2 years late. But who actually cares anymore?

LOL, all the major IHV's in the PC space care (including Intel, AMD, NVIDIA), in addition to all the major IHV's in the ultra mobile space (including Qualcomm, ImgTech, ARM, etc.), not to mention major cross-platform game developers such as Epic Games.

Seeing the presentation was like beeing at a funeral.

For IHV-specific and GPU-specific graphics API's on Windows PC or Xbox platform, yes.

 

[Headfoot]

I think its pretty simple. MS <-> AMD work due to AMD providing Xbox One hardware. MS writes Xbox One API as low level as is typical for consoles (which requires cross communication with AMD for the IP it runs on). Xbox One is a PC with fixed function add-ons. Both AMD and MS simultaneously see that they can backport this work to PC with some additional work. Both players backport the work. AMD and MS are partners far before they are competitors and likely saw the same low-hanging fruit and took separate but identically motivated paths in moving towards it

 

[ams23]

I think its pretty simple. MS <-> AMD work due to AMD providing Xbox One hardware. MS writes Xbox One API as low level as is typical for consoles (which requires cross communication with AMD for the IP it runs on). Xbox One is a PC with fixed function add-ons. Both AMD and MS simultaneously see that they can backport this work to PC with some additional work. Both players backport the work. AMD and MS are partners far before they are competitors and likely saw the same low-hanging fruit and took separate but identically motivated paths in moving towards it

That may be the case, but don't forget that NVIDIA and Intel have played an instrumental role in bringing forward D3D12, and their partnership and collaboration with Microsoft over the last few years (along with AMD) has been essential in getting this cross-platform and vendor-agnostic industry standard API off the ground. And if you read in between the lines, notice that the D3D12 API development tools from Microsoft will likely be second to none, and there will be more features and benefits exposed over the next year or so.

 

[krumme]

Ms added a cache to the xbox. "Fused off" sound in the dsp and then insisted of writing their own api.

Result: Xbox performs bad. Programming is more complex. Tools is a mess. Devs is complaining and Its selling very bad.

It doesnt look like they are in control. It doesnt look like their choises was right. We will see in 2-3 years if win 9 can give dx12 momentum as a gaming platform.

Looking at the sparse true dx11 in games today (hello frostbite) and in the light of win7 success, win9 needs to be as least a big success.

 

[rgallant]

Nvidia Running Forza on their GPU was just a bit of a side swipe at AMD.

IMO it was done purely so they could have that little concession and make something of it.

Its a console only game, it will never actually see Kepler Hardware

AMD alluded to the tension between MS, Game Developers and Hardware Developers right on stage.

MS want to push their Console ECO System, they don't want Desktop Gaming to get any better than it already is.
Mantle is a huge Fly in their soup.
Which is why no one should kid themselves that in 2 years DX12 WILL be all that, it might be, but its far from a given when its creators motives are for the XB1, not the PC.

-good points and also you have to wonder why was bf4 not shown on dx12 -not money nv + ms lol. what 20k of programers can't make it work after 4 years but amd could.

 

[Gloomy]

What's with the PR in this thread? Arguing about something that doesn't even exist yet is pointless as heck. All you have to ask is "where's DX12?"

Where is DX12?

 

[ASM-coder]

Do we know what CPU was used in the Forza demo?
Since Forza 5 already runs on a "weak" AMD APU,
should we be impressed that it runs on a GeForce Titan Black.
And what if it was an i7?

 

[96Firebird]

What's with the PR in this thread? Arguing about something that doesn't even exist yet is pointless as heck. All you have to ask is "where's DX12?"

Where is DX12?

Did you say this in the huge Mantle thread when it was around?

 

[Gloomy]

Did you say this in the huge Mantle thread when it was around?

Did you have a problem with empty PR when the Mantle thread was around?

 

[96Firebird]

Did you have a problem with empty PR when the Mantle thread was around?

Yes.

 

[PPB]

Then your spidey senses must be tingling like mad on this thread and the DX12 one, because its the same PR talk, only brought up to a whole new level.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Where is DX12?

In PR mode basically. It exists in an early alpha stage from everything I've read, in fact calling it Alpha would be generous. When Microsoft is talking about a target of holiday 2015, I'll take that to mean sometime in 2016.

On another note, why doesn't Microsoft just buy Advanced Micro Devices, it makes so much sense. Mantle can instantly become DX12, future Xbox hardware is covered, GPU tech for other mobile devices.

 

[Gloomy]

Yes.

So then why support the empty PR in this thread?