AMD Files Antitrust Complaint Against Intel in U.S. Federal District Court

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: L3p3rM355i4h

Dude, you can't argue with trolls. They have no real congative abilities.

True. I'll just ignore him.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: FreshPrince

Originally posted by: Continuity27
FreshPrince, if AMD wins, you win too. Buying either Intel or AMD, you'll win either way.

I already own both....I've owned both since AMD started...the part that pisses me off is that they're resulting to cry babies instead of developing better strategies to increase their bottom line.

weak...

THey developed a better product and their bottom line is being harmed by Intel's illegal business practices. What part about this can't you understand? Are you denying the legitimacy of antitrust laws?

Maybe he enjoys paying the higher price for Intel products since they don't have any 'competition'?

 

[Continuity27]

Originally posted by: FreshPrince
I already own both....I've owned both since AMD started...the part that pisses me off is that they're resulting to cry babies instead of developing better strategies to increase their bottom line.

weak...

But see think of it this way: (In reference to what you say about crybabies)

There's a company bottling water. One of the employee's is disgruntled and pisses in the bottles, people buy that water. Another employee notices and calls the police "wah wah mommy he's peeing in the water" etc. That guy gets fired and obviously can't piss in the water now. Are you really going to say the same thing about complaining to the law when someone else breaks it? Think of the people drinking that contaminated water, which may include you, you should be ELATED over the fact that someone had the brains to cry to "mommy". Otherwise we'd be much worse off.

Note: I'm referring to your cry baby argument, not calling Intel water pissers.

 

[FreshPrince]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: FreshPrince

Originally posted by: Continuity27
FreshPrince, if AMD wins, you win too. Buying either Intel or AMD, you'll win either way.

I already own both....I've owned both since AMD started...the part that pisses me off is that they're resulting to cry babies instead of developing better strategies to increase their bottom line.

weak...

THey developed a better product and their bottom line is being harmed by Intel's illegal business practices. What part about this can't you understand? Are you denying the legitimacy of antitrust laws?

better product my arse, it's the same product, not better. If it were better, EVERYONE would be using it. It's the same product because no one cares if it's intel or amd, they stick with what's familiar with them. Intel has been around longer than AMD, therefore they use Intel (oops, correction )

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Nik
If Intel gets in trouble for doing all that, why won't the other companies also get in trouble for taking part? It takes two...

They are being coerced.

Correct, you don't punish victims. What you are asking is that if someone holds a gun to your head and asks you to tell the bank teller to put all the money in the bag and then makes you drive the getaway car that you should be punished for that. Intel is the guy with the "gun" as many other CEO's from other OEMs are saying.

How does Intel coerce if AMD has the better product? Well AMD makes CPUs for the most part and very little else. They don't have the revenue or the capability to compete with other products (although they try to expand). Intel on the other hand DOES. Intel makes way more then CPUs. Some of their products have no other competition at all in America. Like chipsets for motherboards and stuff for cell phones, and other technology items. So what happens to major technology makers who buy tons of different parts, chiefly those from Intel because there are no other competative options if they want to buy an AMD product line of CPUs? Well Intell tells makers like HP, Dell, Gateway, and others that if they buy an AMD CPU, they will charge more or won't ship out something ELSE they need for another product which they can't get through another alternative competitor. Because it's a part no one else makes because Intel already killed that market.

Do you not see how deplorable that is?

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: FreshPrince

better product my arse, it's the same product, not better. If it were better, EVERYONE would be using it. It's the same product because no one cares if it's intel or amd, they stick with what's familiar with them. Intel has been around longer than AMD, therefore they use AMD

No it's a better product. The reason people don't know this is because they've been TOLD over years that Intel is better by employee's who sell thisstuff because we are FORCED to tell them this or lose our jobs.

I'm SERIOUS. I was an employee at Best Buy for a few years before switching to Circuit City for a few more years. In BOTH places, I sold computers and in both places every manager I ever ran across told me to sell Intel and LIE about AMD's to customers. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I don't sell more Intels then AMDs I'd be fired and they'd find someone else for my slightly above minimum wage job. Why did the managers tell me this? because they were forced by their bosses and their bosses were forced because the distributors forced them, who were forced by technology "makers" who were forced by Intel. See... sh!t rolls downhill and the consumer pays the price because they were DELIBERATELY LIED TO.

The fact is, Intel has had an inferior product for years but maintain a market leadership because of ILLEGAL business practices. They force people to LIE to consumers, from sells people to websites/magazines that "benchmark" technology parts. So now the average Joe Blow has no clue that current Intel CPUs suck in every way shape and form compared to AMD CPUs. It got to the point were the average customer won't even consider products that are offered by the competition. I work in Texas, where we see alot of business from Mexico, another country. Mexican Nationals come up and barely know any English. The only things that normally come from their mouths are... Intel, Sony, Microsoft, and Ipod. That's it.

 

[jtvang125]

I hope AMD comes out on top of this. Intel has gotten away with too much for too long.

 

[Kremlar]

Correct, you don't punish victims. What you are asking is that if someone holds a gun to your head and asks you to tell the bank teller to put all the money in the bag and then makes you drive the getaway car that you should be punished for that. Intel is the guy with the "gun" as many other CEO's from other OEMs are saying.

That's the worst comparison I've ever seen.

There's no reason Dell couldn't add AMD to their lineup if they chose to - they are a big gun, Intel would certainly not want to lose Dell business.

Imagine if Dell went all AMD? It would change the face of the market in one fell swoop. Dell just chooses not to.

 

[timxpx]

reading everyones lineage of processors makes me miss my tandy 1000. oh jump joe. wheel of fortune. jeopardy. and pinball. all on my monochrome monitor.

 

[Kremlar]

In BOTH places, I sold computers and in both places every manager I ever ran across told me to sell Intel and LIE about AMD's to customers. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I don't sell more Intels then AMDs I'd be fired and they'd find someone else for my slightly above minimum wage job.

LOL - that's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard! :laugh:

 

[FreshPrince]

Originally posted by: Continuity27

Originally posted by: FreshPrince
I already own both....I've owned both since AMD started...the part that pisses me off is that they're resulting to cry babies instead of developing better strategies to increase their bottom line.

weak...

But see think of it this way: (In reference to what you say about crybabies)

There's a company bottling water. One of the employee's is disgruntled and pisses in the bottles, people buy that water. Another employee notices and calls the police "wah wah mommy he's peeing in the water" etc. That guy gets fired and obviously can't piss in the water now. Are you really going to say the same thing about complaining to the law when someone else breaks it? Think of the people drinking that contaminated water, which may include you, you should be ELATED over the fact that someone had the brains to cry to "mommy". Otherwise we'd be much worse off.

Note: I'm referring to your cry baby argument, not calling Intel water pissers.

ok, stop making these comparisons..because they don't make sense. intel don't kill people or piss in water, or make their CPU's to cause cancer. They make Processors, motherboards, ... etc.

They aren't hurting the average joes like you and me. why people are so passionate in defending rich people is beyond me. yes, AMD is rich, just like Intel. Let the big dogs fight their own battles, stop being smurfs and cheer on the little guy. They are both giants in the business, but AMD is smaller, so they cry about it and attempt to gain equal ground. How about this, AMD grows big and strong and then fight the battles with Intel.

Best example that I can give is people in minor league trying to play against people in the major leagues. you're gonna lose everytime unless you grow as strong as the players in the major league. you don't make the hoop shorter so that EVERYONE can dunk. No, you grow taller and stronger so that you can make the jump.

WAH WAH WAH, cry me a river AMD.

I still love my rig, but AMD needs to STFU :|

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: FreshPrince


WAH WAH WAH, cry me a river AMD.

I still love my rig, but AMD needs to STFU :|

You're the one that's crying because he doesn't understand what's going on, you're the one that doesn't seem to understand that antitrust business practices are ILLEGAL, and you're the one that needs to STFU.

 

[Continuity27]

Originally posted by: FreshPrince

Originally posted by: Continuity27
But see think of it this way: (In reference to what you say about crybabies)

...

Note: I'm referring to your cry baby argument, not calling Intel water pissers.

ok, stop making these comparisons..because they don't make sense. intel don't kill people or piss in water, or make their CPU's to cause cancer. They make Processors, motherboards, ... etc.

Umm hello? Reading comprehension? I was referring to your WAH WAH cry baby argument, not saying Intel pisses in water or even making that comparison.

 

[The Pentium Guy]

Originally posted by: Continuity27

Originally posted by: FreshPrince
I already own both....I've owned both since AMD started...the part that pisses me off is that they're resulting to cry babies instead of developing better strategies to increase their bottom line.

weak...

But see think of it this way: (In reference to what you say about crybabies)

There's a company bottling water. One of the employee's is disgruntled and pisses in the bottles, people buy that water. Another employee notices and calls the police "wah wah mommy he's peeing in the water" etc. That guy gets fired and obviously can't piss in the water now. Are you really going to say the same thing about complaining to the law when someone else breaks it? Think of the people drinking that contaminated water, which may include you, you should be ELATED over the fact that someone had the brains to cry to "mommy". Otherwise we'd be much worse off.

Note: I'm referring to your cry baby argument, not calling Intel water pissers.

Heh. Thanks for that - that was a good laugh (I needed some joke to cheer up this crappy day)

 

[FreshPrince]

Originally posted by: Kremlar

Correct, you don't punish victims. What you are asking is that if someone holds a gun to your head and asks you to tell the bank teller to put all the money in the bag and then makes you drive the getaway car that you should be punished for that. Intel is the guy with the "gun" as many other CEO's from other OEMs are saying.

That's the worst comparison I've ever seen.

There's no reason Dell couldn't add AMD to their lineup if they chose to - they are a big gun, Intel would certainly not want to lose Dell business.

Imagine if Dell went all AMD? It would change the face of the market in one fell swoop. Dell just chooses not to.

pssst, I can tell you why....AMD is not as stable as EVERYONE thinks.

If you think Dell is holding off AMD because Intel tells them not to, you're naive. Dell is smart, they have their own QA team, and I can bet that this team says AMD is not as stable. I know, because I have to jump through hoops to get my rig to be stable. I love it now, but I hated that I had to make the extra efforts to stabilize it. Everyone that says otherwise, is in denial. now imagine dell's helpdesk trying to troubleshoot those all those AMD workstations...that's why Dell is still an Intel shop. When AMD gets their sh1t together, Dell will be AMD inside, but not until then.

/pets his A64

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: Kremlar

Correct, you don't punish victims. What you are asking is that if someone holds a gun to your head and asks you to tell the bank teller to put all the money in the bag and then makes you drive the getaway car that you should be punished for that. Intel is the guy with the "gun" as many other CEO's from other OEMs are saying.

That's the worst comparison I've ever seen.

There's no reason Dell couldn't add AMD to their lineup if they chose to - they are a big gun, Intel would certainly not want to lose Dell business.

Imagine if Dell went all AMD? It would change the face of the market in one fell swoop. Dell just chooses not to.

Incorrect. If Dell choose to go with all AMD for their CPUs choice of desktops, they would lose OTHER product lines completely. Much more profitable product lines. Did you know the average profit margin on a $1000 desktop computer is around $50? So how does Dell make money? They sell you digital cameras, LCD monitors, printers, and OTHER technologies. Where do the parts for these technologies come from? INTEL MUTHA FUKA! So what happens if Dell chooses to support AMD? Intel cuts them off from OTHER product lines. Now Dell can't sell sh!t because Intel is actively sabotoging the reputation of AMD by forcing retail employees to deliberately LIE about their products. So now Dell is stuck with a computer line that the average consumer doesn't want to buy because they've been literally brainwashed into thinking it sucks, when it is actually the better product, and they don't have anything ELSE to sell because Intel will cut them off from any other product they make a higher profit margin on.

That is EXACTLY what the lawsuit is all about. Dell doesn't "choose" to not use AMD because their are in cohoots... well they could be but that's because Intel gives CEO's and certain management direct kickbacks for not going with AMD... but also because if they did try to use the competition then Intel would ruin them financially.

Hrmm... if I'm running a store and I'm told in no uncertain terms that if I go with X product over Y I'd not only get some extra cash in my pocket (done under the table style) and make a ton of cash over the table style OR my alternative is to go with product Y and be literally bankrupt by the end of the week. What the hell do you think I, and most people would do when faced with those choices? Sorry, many people have kids to feed and don't give a damn about moral issues when it comes to that and can "ignore" legal issues when it comes to having a new summer home.

 

[FreshPrince]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: FreshPrince


WAH WAH WAH, cry me a river AMD.

I still love my rig, but AMD needs to STFU :|

You're the one that's crying because he doesn't understand what's going on, you're the one that doesn't seem to understand that antitrust business practices are ILLEGAL, and you're the one that needs to STFU.

kiss my grits? :|

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: 2x

This is just ridiculous. They don't have the money to spend on marketing, and more importantly, what good would it do? What's the point? It's going to take YEARS and a BETTER PRODUCT to get AMD ahead of Intel, but I'd certainly not start pushing my brand name until I could be assured that Intel was going to stop paying off businesses to NOT sell my product.

Yet they had the money to burn on the Flash business which anyone could have seen was an ultra low margin business doomed to bleed dollars? No money for advertising? I'm not asking for a Super Bowl commercial and saturation a la GM and their employee discount commercials every minute on TV. But 1 commercial. Can anyone say they have seen a commercial that touts AMD. Or better yet, those big manufacturers who do sell AMD like HP, have you ever seen them push AMD in their commercials? 1 commercial which touts Athlon. Of course no one outside these forums is gonna buy your gear if you rely on the sales reps at Best Buy to explain to the average Joe and Jane who walks in why Intel is not superior to the cheaper AMD sitting right next to it. AMD went with the marketing strategy of "let our tech speak for itself" and it is not working because when tech speaks, the average user has no clue what it's saying. Hence why the idiotic Blue Man commercials and the most simple of phrases like "Intel inside" speak volumes to the masses.

It's funny... AMD's marketing actually WORKS. They hand out marketing materials to their resellers and distributors like candy. In turn, we do asinine things with them.

Also, when I was laptop shopping, I decided to play Joe Moron and get some advice from the Circuit City guys. To my absolute surprise, 8 of the 9 guys I talked to steered me towards and AMD system, and 4 of those were towards the very laptop that I bought, the HP ZV5000. 2 more of those were towards the hardware-identical Compaq R3000z... And they were the ONLY two AMD models on the laptop display.

At BB, CUSSR, CC, etc. around here, AMD POSTIVELY DOMINATES the desktop displays. Intel has lost every major distributor except Dell (because Dell may as well be a wholly owned subsidiary). Unfortunately, Dell is the VAST majority of the market.

And anyone that's ever read the Intel reseller agreement can tell you how badly it reeks. It scared me away, and my plans of rolling out a few offerings with them were immediately and wholly cancelled.

 

[Phoenix86]

I have been waiting for this for a while now.

Here are a few points that people humping the leg of one company or the other will have a hard time arguing against.
AMD makes a CLEARLY competitive product. Better or worse, it's definatly competitive.
In a free market two similar producuts will take their share of the market. Look at Coke and Pepsi, look at the auto industry. Smaller companies with competitive products (and pricing) will grow.
This hasn't really happened with AMD. Why?
External forces (aka antitrust) to the market is one of the few answers.

Competition is good for the consumer. We should all be cheering this if it's true, and it certianly appears that way.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: FreshPrince

If you think Dell is holding off AMD because Intel tells them not to, you're naive. Dell is smart, they have their own QA team, and I can bet that this team says AMD is not as stable. I know, because I have to jump through hoops to get my rig to be stable. I love it now, but I hated that I had to make the extra efforts to stabilize it. Everyone that says otherwise, is in denial. now imagine dell's helpdesk trying to troubleshoot those all those AMD workstations...that's why Dell is still an Intel shop. When AMD gets their sh1t together, Dell will be AMD inside, but not until then.

/pets his A64

You are so typical of a clueless troll. If you can't get your rig to be stable, that shows how good of a PC tech you are. You're not good at all.

Millions of A64 CPU's have been produced, and people have absolutely no problem making their rig stable. If they have the same CPU as you, how come you can't make your rig stable? It's because you're no good. You can't figure it out, so you blame the CPU like any moron would.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: FreshPrince

Originally posted by: Kremlar

Correct, you don't punish victims. What you are asking is that if someone holds a gun to your head and asks you to tell the bank teller to put all the money in the bag and then makes you drive the getaway car that you should be punished for that. Intel is the guy with the "gun" as many other CEO's from other OEMs are saying.

That's the worst comparison I've ever seen.

There's no reason Dell couldn't add AMD to their lineup if they chose to - they are a big gun, Intel would certainly not want to lose Dell business.

Imagine if Dell went all AMD? It would change the face of the market in one fell swoop. Dell just chooses not to.

pssst, I can tell you why....AMD is not as stable as EVERYONE thinks.

If you think Dell is holding off AMD because Intel tells them not to, you're naive. Dell is smart, they have their own QA team, and I can bet that this team says AMD is not as stable. I know, because I have to jump through hoops to get my rig to be stable. I love it now, but I hated that I had to make the extra efforts to stabilize it. Everyone that says otherwise, is in denial. now imagine dell's helpdesk trying to troubleshoot those all those AMD workstations...that's why Dell is still an Intel shop. When AMD gets their sh1t together, Dell will be AMD inside, but not until then.

/pets his A64

Bullsh!t, it's because Intel gives Dell a huge discount on CPU's as long as they remain Intel exclusive

 

[EyeMWing]

Oh, and I'll buy every single one of you whiners MB/CPU/RAM (Remember, your RAM is worthless too! Intel CPUs take DDR2) for close to market value. That way, you can put a down payment on a P4.

 

[Sqube]

FreshPrince, I've never had any kind of stability issues with my AMD rig; what exactly have you been up to? If you're overclocking or something and it doesn't stay stable, it's not really their fault.

That said... I'm constantly amazed at your defense of Intel. All of your statements boils down to this: So what if Intel is breaking the law? AMD isn't as good as Intel yet, and that's the only reason that they're not getting all kinds of market share

I'm impressed by your level of selective vision. Can you teach me how to blind myself to all realities except those which I choose to believe? It seems like a very comforting skill when faced with things that you really can't argue with (like reality).

 

[FreshPrince]

Originally posted by: HumblePie

Originally posted by: Kremlar

Correct, you don't punish victims. What you are asking is that if someone holds a gun to your head and asks you to tell the bank teller to put all the money in the bag and then makes you drive the getaway car that you should be punished for that. Intel is the guy with the "gun" as many other CEO's from other OEMs are saying.

That's the worst comparison I've ever seen.

There's no reason Dell couldn't add AMD to their lineup if they chose to - they are a big gun, Intel would certainly not want to lose Dell business.

Imagine if Dell went all AMD? It would change the face of the market in one fell swoop. Dell just chooses not to.

Incorrect. If Dell choose to go with all AMD for their CPUs choice of desktops, they would lose OTHER product lines completely. Much more profitable product lines. Did you know the average profit margin on a $1000 desktop computer is around $50? So how does Dell make money? I sells you digital cameras, LCD monitors, printers, and OTHER technologies. Where do the parts for these technologies come from? INTEL MUTHA FUKA! So what happens if Dell chooses to support AMD? Intel cuts them off from OTHER product lines. Now Dell can't sell sh!t because Intel is actively sabotoging the reputation of AMD by forcing retail employees to deliberately LIE about their products. So now Dell is stuck with a computer line that the average consumer doesn't want to buy because they've been literally brainwashed into thinking it sucks, when it is actually the better product, and they don't have anything ELSE to sell because Intel will cut them off from any other product they make a higher profit margin on.

That is EXACTLY what the lawsuit is all about. Dell doesn't "choose" to not use AMD because their are in cohoots... well they could be but that's because Intel gives CEO's and certain management direct kickbacks for not going with AMD... but also because if they did try to use the competition then Intel would ruin them financially.

Hrmm... if I'm running a store and I'm told in no uncertain terms that if I go with X product over Y I'd not only get some extra cash in my pocket (done under the table style) and make a ton of cash over the table style OR my alternative is to go with product Y and be literally bankrupt by the end of the week. What the hell do you think I, and most people would do when faced with those choices? Sorry, many people have kids to feed and don't give a damn about moral issues when it comes to that and can "ignore" legal issues when it comes to having a new summer home.

that's a good point, look at what happened to dell's printers when they stopped selling HP printers? Dell's printers are crap, I know because I manage a couple of them. Not to mention the spyware that comes with all their printer drivers. If dell makes another mistake like that with Intel...they're done for. why do you think Dell said he will have no problems selling OSX based dells? because of what? Intel.

 

[Continuity27]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86
I have been waiting for this for a while now.

Here are a few points that people humping the leg of one company or the other will have a hard time arguing against.
AMD makes a CLEARLY competitive product. Better or worse, it's definatly competitive.
In a free market two similar producuts will take their share of the market. Look at Coke and Pepsi, look at the auto industry. Smaller companies with competitive products (and pricing) will grow.
This hasn't really happened with AMD. Why?
External forces (aka antitrust) to the market is one of the few answers.

Competition is good for the consumer. We should all be cheering this if it's true, and it certianly appears that way.

I'm definately cheering.