Amazon To Not Build 2nd HQ in New York

[fskimospy]

I agree they should zone for residential, not more office space.

That’s not the issue either, they need to stop limiting residential zoning.

 

[theeedude]

The real issue to me is that our lax antitrust laws and enforcement let Amazon get so dominant that they feel comfortable holding these race to the bottom HQ2 freak shows, and then telling locals to pay up and shut up, or else. If there was ever a sign that it's time for some serious trust-busting, this is it.

 

[fskimospy]

The real issue to me is that our lax antitrust laws and enforcement let Amazon get so dominant that they feel comfortable holding these race to the bottom HQ2 freak shows, and then telling locals to pay up and shut up, or else. If there was ever a sign that it's time for some serious trust-busting, this is it.

Oh I very much agree. We simply don’t enforce antitrust law anymore. If we did we would have about 50 more cable companies and about 20 more banks, haha.

Again though, I feel like opposition to the amazon deal is really opposition to other bad policies.

 

[theeedude]

That’s not the issue either, they need to stop limiting residential zoning.

It's the ratio of office to residential. They also have to spend money build schools and infrastructure to support more residential, but Amazon wanted them to fork that money in subsidies instead. I live in Silicon Valley, and a lot of people here wish big tech would hire throughout the country and not pack them all in huge campuses in expensive areas. Amazon HQ2 was a freak show that pissed off everyone.

 

[fskimospy]

It's the ratio of office to residential. They also have to spend money build schools and infrastructure to support more residential, but Amazon wanted them to fork that money in subsidies instead. I live in Silicon Valley, and a lot of people here wish big tech would hire throughout the country and not pack them all in huge campuses in expensive areas. Amazon HQ2 was a freak show that pissed off everyone.

If people want to solve the housing problem in Silicon Valley what they need to do is add a couple stories to every residence, not zone more areas for single family, one story houses.

Do what I suggest and watch your rent plummet. They won’t do that though because the people who own houses there don’t want the prices to go down.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Democrats are hard to work with today, anything they don't like they obstruct.

 

[Zorba]

If people want to solve the housing problem in Silicon Valley what they need to do is add a couple stories to every residence, not zone more areas for single family, one story houses.

Do what I suggest and watch your rent plummet. They won’t do that though because the people who own houses there don’t want the prices to go down.

Considering the vast majority of the country has developed with the single family house model, I think that is a pretty good indication that is what the majority of people want.

There are tons of cities these companies could build in. But incentives and the power of scale for certain skills keep them going back to areas that don't need more jobs.

 

[fskimospy]

Considering the vast majority of the country has developed with the single family house model, I think that is a pretty good indication that is what the majority of people want.

There are tons of cities these companies could build in. But incentives and the power of scale for certain skills keep them going back to areas that don't need more jobs.

If that’s what they want that’s fine, but choices have consequences.

They are welcome to keep their single family houses but in that case I don’t want to hear any whining about high housing costs. They could make them lower but choose not to.

 

[Zorba]

If that’s what they want that’s fine, but choices have consequences.

They are welcome to keep their single family houses but in that case I don’t want to hear any whining about high housing costs. They could make them lower but choose not to.

I've been thinking about how humans seem to be attracted to monopolies for a while. It is easy to see with the internet. A space that has low barriers to entry, can be reached by billions, etc. But what we see, instead of massive competition we get massive monopolistic companies like Amazon, Google and Facebook.

I think the same thing is happening with cities. Companies all move to the valley because they can still workers, workers move there because there are tons of jobs. The big cities/states have more money to giveaway to the massive companies, so even more companies move in, attracting more people that need jobs, etc.

People move to where the jobs are, so a whats better for the country point of view I think it would be a lot better if companies would spread out a bit. But the monopolistic forces that create monopolistic companies seem to work similarly for cities.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I think it's a good outcome all around, except landlords.
Amazon should set up more smaller offices around the country instead of trying to jam 25000 new employees into an area with limited real estate.

Where the fuck in NY is there NOT limited real estate? From what I was understanding - this was more in the Bronx area - which typically goes against the day-to-day rush hour traffic?

If anything this would be the ultimate gentrification to the area - you will see up-scale coffee houses, diners, bars, and lunch places crop up all around it with good employment.

But we don't want those dirty brown people having stable jobs in the area now do we?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

It comes out of property taxes. Residents property taxes.

I've already paid $7500 this year for living in 1 family 2500 square feet in a suburb. And it keeps going up. Gentrification is real.

And that's why the local community pushed back.. Amazon is rich enough to not "need" this money from the people but they wanted to strong arm it anyway. To that I say good riddance.. no more public welfare..

P.S. How come google manages to play within the rules.. they have a huge office here.

Awww whats that? Your liberal ass doesn't want to pay the property taxes you're properly allocated? Too bad, you're simply too rich and you need to pay more.

Oh hey - that's what you proclaim a lot on here. Funny.

Also, you don't think businesses pay property taxes? Are you fucking dumb as a rock? No - don't answer that - it is a rhetorical.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Would you like to pay $7500 or more in property taxes every year or would that be more stupid?

I know some who are paying $22k for about the same 2500 square feet as mine but out in long island.

I pay ~$5,000 per year - as I reside in a conservative state that doesn't have income taxes - most of it falls under sales taxes and property taxes.... But you know what? Unlike income I get to CHOOSE my property.... So I CHOOSE to live with a bunch of brown folks that you like to shit on all the time.

I live in a house that is worth the value of 1 year of our combined salary. Amazing what you can do. Maybe you should try residing in the poorer areas of NY and tell me about your property taxes.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Basically what I expected.





It looks like the company totally failed to grasp the political dimensions of where they were doing this and how.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/nyregion/amazon-hq2-nyc.html

Except... you know.. as mentioned multiple times in this thread......

The people protesting aren't poor brown folks - they are rich white people you fucking retard. It's a perfect illustration of NIMBY - Get off your bias soapbox for half a second.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

.

Right, I'll have what "poison" you're drinking.

I challenge you to show me a congresswoman who is more hot.

She might be "crazy-never-marry-that-bitch" hot... but still attractive none the less.

 

[Indus]

Awww whats that? Your liberal ass doesn't want to pay the property taxes you're properly allocated? Too bad, you're simply too rich and you need to pay more.

Oh hey - that's what you proclaim a lot on here. Funny.

Also, you don't think businesses pay property taxes? Are you fucking dumb as a rock? No - don't answer that - it is a rhetorical.

Think you misunderstood me..

Why are they getting 3 billion dollars in tax breaks? Answer: Corporate welfare.

Why aren't the working poor who make under 100k like me getting them? Answer: we don't make campaign donations of amounts the corporations do.

 

[Indus]

Except... you know.. as mentioned multiple times in this thread......

The people protesting aren't poor brown folks - they are rich white people you fucking retard. It's a perfect illustration of NIMBY - Get off your bias soapbox for half a second.

Actually no.. Long Island City is a mixed neighborhood with quite a few warehouses and it even has LaGuardia College.

If you had made the same presumption about Sheepshead Bay, Astoria, Middle Village, Brooklyn Heights.. you'd be right but in this case you're mistaken.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Think you misunderstood me..

Why are they getting 3 billion dollars in tax breaks? Answer: Corporate welfare.

Why aren't the working poor who make under 100k like me getting them? Answer: we don't make campaign donations of amounts the corporations do.

No - sorry to educate your ass - but the reason you don't get "3 billion in tax breaks" is because you don't create 3 billion in tax benefits. Thats simply the fact. There is some tax benefit in the production/building of your home/residence, but aside from that - yeah no, no real tax benefits for the state.

Same with the "working poors" they don't create much in tax benefit. More often then not they are taking tax benefits from others that create tax dollars.

It's a fact: If Amazon creates a HQ - out around it will prop up:
1) Coffee shops with substantial pay
2) Lunch places with substantial pay
3) Dinner places with substantial pay
4) Bars with substantial pay
5) Housing/Apartments with substantial pay

That is IN ADDITION to the actual employment that will be 25,000 in mostly 6+ figure employment that are all paying state income taxes -and paying state sales taxes to the above mentioned businesses.

Of course, you can continue living in squalor under the shit that is currently there... To each their own... a fool and their money are soon parted.

 

[Indus]

No - sorry to educate your ass - but the reason you don't get "3 billion in tax breaks" is because you don't create 3 billion in tax benefits. Thats simply the fact. There is some tax benefit in the production/building of your home/residence, but aside from that - yeah no, no real tax benefits for the state.

Same with the "working poors" they don't create much in tax benefit. More often then not they are taking tax benefits from others that create tax dollars.

It's a fact: If Amazon creates a HQ - out around it will prop up:
1) Coffee shops with substantial pay
2) Lunch places with substantial pay
3) Dinner places with substantial pay
4) Bars with substantial pay
5) Housing/Apartments with substantial pay

That is IN ADDITION to the actual employment that will be 25,000 in mostly 6+ figure employment that are all paying state income taxes -and paying state sales taxes to the above mentioned businesses.

Of course, you can continue living in squalor under the shit that is currently there... To each their own... a fool and their money are soon parted.

Those are already there.

But you are right about fools and money. Glad we kept 3 billion.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Those are already there.

But you are right about fools and money. Glad we kept 3 billion.

Stupid gonna stupid.

It's always hilarious when retards argue facts with nothing but stupid opinions.

 

[sandorski]

This sums up the issue perfectly

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

This sums up the issue perfectly

Understood - people here that have no fucking clue how basic economics works. Give yourself all the feel good feelings all you want - New York is losing on this position. New Jersey, Red states, whatever it is will be glad to take up the tax revenue and benefits from your own stupidity all the way through.


God those statements by AoC were SO fucking dumb

#1: "We could use those tax dollars for more things local" (general statement of what she said)... Ummm... No you can't. Those tax dollars don't exist. They never did exist. They were exempt tax dollars. I would go into more detail but you're too stupid and inempt to understand the discussion since you got a degree in retardation instead of business

#2: "There was no guarantee those jobs were not for the New Yorkers here" It's pretty hard to have local jobs for someone in another community.... But uhhh, regardless of if people are commuting from another state (Say, New Jersey?) - Regardless, they will be paying INCOME TAXES for the STATE OF NEW YORK you fucking retard. I honestly don't give a shit if they live in my state - I care if they pay taxes in my states while employed in my state. But again, this dumb bitch is too stupid to know what basic revenue is.

If you can't even understand those 2 very basic functions - then you're too stupid to even participate in this argument. You're too stupid to understand what taxes are - or what state tax benefits are and the potential implications are.

 

[theeedude]

Where the fuck in NY is there NOT limited real estate? From what I was understanding - this was more in the Bronx area - which typically goes against the day-to-day rush hour traffic?

If anything this would be the ultimate gentrification to the area - you will see up-scale coffee houses, diners, bars, and lunch places crop up all around it with good employment.

But we don't want those dirty brown people having stable jobs in the area now do we?

I don't think you understand how gentrification works in the real world. Resident brown people are going to be the ones gentrified out, replaced by the 25000 $150k per year tech workers who will drive up the rents to levels only they can afford. Amazon just wants the money and the land. They also specifically requested a helicopter pad so executives never even have to step on the local streets.

 

[sandorski]

Understood - people here that have no fucking clue how basic economics works. Give yourself all the feel good feelings all you want - New York is losing on this position. New Jersey, Red states, whatever it is will be glad to take up the tax revenue and benefits from your own stupidity all the way through.


God those statements by AoC were SO fucking dumb

#1: We could use those tax dollars for more things local (general statement of what she said)... Ummm... No you can't. Those tax dollars don't exist. They never did exist. They were exempt tax dollars. I would go into more detail but you're too stupid and inempt to understand the discussion since you got a degree in retardation instead of business

#2: There was no guarantee those jobs were not for the New Yorkers here: It's pretty hard to have local jobs for someone in another community.... But uhhh, regardless of if people are commuting from another state (Say, New Jersey?) - Regardless, they will be paying INCOME TAXES for the STATE OF NEW YORK you fucking retard.

If you can't even understand those 2 very basic functions - then you're too stupid to even participate in this argument. You're too stupid to understand what taxes are - or what state tax benefits are and the potential implications are.

You do understand that giving Amazon these guarantees ensures the Loss of these Revenues? You understand that Amazon has no Need for these Subsidies? Are you aware that other $MultiBillion corporations such as FaceBook and Google built HQs in NYC without any such Subsidies? Has it even crossed your mind that other corps may desire to locate to NYC without Subsidy that just might use the Real Estate that Amazon would have been given for Free?

Quit being a sycophant for those who don't Need or even Deserve it.

 

[theeedude]

Amazon has 5000 people in New York, and still hiring, 700 open positions here:
https://www.amazon.jobs/en/search?b...lse&country=USA&city=&region=New+York&county=
It makes no sense to pay them for stuff they are going to do anyway.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

You do understand that giving Amazon these guarantees ensures the Loss of these Revenues? You understand that Amazon has no Need for these Subsidies? Are you aware that other $MultiBillion corporations such as FaceBook and Google built HQs in NYC without any such Subsidies? Has it even crossed your mind that other corps may desire to locate to NYC without Subsidy that just might use the Real Estate that Amazon would have been given for Free?

Quit being a sycophant for those who don't Need or even Deserve it.

You can't have loss of revenue of revenue that doesn't exist you fucking dimwit

Amazon is accepted with STATE tax benefits (Let's say for instance They pay $0 in NY state benefits - I don't know the precise implications): This means they get $0 in STATE benefits from Amazon, which doesn't include potential City benefits from Amazon, federal benefits from Amazon... But on top of that - The employees will be paying Federal, State, and City income taxes- they will be buying meals and shopping new and paying state, and local sales tax - and they will be living near and paying state and local property taxes... Oh and they will be using local transportation taxes on the subways.

But don't let facts get in the way of your feelings detective dipshit.

Do you understand that you can't lose revenue that you never had? Because that is what is happening idiot. Even if you lose on state corporate income taxes - you gain on all of the other taxes.