Look if some is not educated enough to read a ballot and punch the correct hole then tough. They screwed up their own vote. It's no one else's fault but their own. It's a one time thing. All through our lives we are told to read the directions. Don't you remember taking tests and the teacher saying read the directions or you may get the answer wrong. That's what happened here. NO re-vote.
I'm going to say this again:
Buchanan in 1996 got about 8,000 votes in Palm Beach County.
He got about 3,000 this year.
Don't tell me it's impossible for him to get that many votes.
I didn't hear a big stink about it that year.
What's the problem? Sore loser syndrome. And the "Help me, I'm stupid" factor.
Buchanan in 1996 got about 8,000 votes in Palm Beach County.
He got about 3,000 this year.
Don't tell me it's impossible for him to get that many votes.
I didn't hear a big stink about it that year.
What's the problem? Sore loser syndrome. And the "Help me, I'm stupid" factor.
Sorry, but the FL ballot form looks fine to me. Pictures of it are everywhere and I just can't see how you could f*ck it up. If your that stupid, you don't deserve to vote!
red dawn,
Your saying that you want to let someone who may not beable to make a rational decision vote just because they are old and fought in some wars. My uncle fought in Nam but now he is a little crazy and i sure don't think he should vote.
Your saying that you want to let someone who may not beable to make a rational decision vote just because they are old and fought in some wars. My uncle fought in Nam but now he is a little crazy and i sure don't think he should vote.
Actually Red,
No one was disenfranchised. They had their vote. Now, they whine because they were not smart enough to ask for some help BEFORE they took their happy asses back home.
For the record, I would NEVER vote for Strom Thurmond. Reagan was one of our better Presidents. Today I wouldn't for him either, because he is unfortunately affected by Alzheimers. I am also not upset that Senator Roth was unseated because age is affecting him as well.
No one was disenfranchised. They had their vote. Now, they whine because they were not smart enough to ask for some help BEFORE they took their happy asses back home.
For the record, I would NEVER vote for Strom Thurmond. Reagan was one of our better Presidents. Today I wouldn't for him either, because he is unfortunately affected by Alzheimers. I am also not upset that Senator Roth was unseated because age is affecting him as well.
Here is a response I posted in another thread about the allegation that critisizing those who claim to have voted incorrectly is discriminating against the "stupid". It has bearing in this discussion:
desy: Of course stupid people have just as much right to vote as intelligent people, just as the uneducated have same right to vote as the educated. HOWEVER, this right does not come without obligations. It is a right to vote, but I would also consider it a civic obligation, which unfortunately too few people realize. Pursuant to that obligation or that right, is the duty to inform oneself and make an educated (in the sense of the issues, not diplomas) vote for the candidate that best represents your views. Further, everyone has the same opportunity to vote and the same materials to do so.
These voters in Palm Beach County received the ballot ahead of time, according to the Governor and the press, had every opportunity to examine the ballot and the machine before voting, and (this is critical) could have protested at the polling station or requested a new ballot if they had made a mistake. If they had THOUGHT they made a mistake, they should have requested a new ballot. Simply because they were embarrassed or only realized when they went home is not an excuse. Thousands of other voters punched Gore without issue.
We cannot and SHOULD NOT make this country accessible to the lowest common denominator. There are responsibilities on the part of citizens of this country -- we do not just have rights without obligation. That is the fallacy of the liberals -- entitlements without any restrictions, obligations, or responsibilities. If you cannot vote accurately, it is NOT the government's fault -- it is yours. ACCEPT that responsibility and live with it. Next time, take a little more and assert your right to either have someone help you or to redo the ballot until it is correct. We cannot bend over backwards for every single person who cannot handle their affairs. What's next? Pictures on the ballots since the illiterate cannot read the names?
Though the ballot in Georgia was different, I spent about a minute or so examining it in detail and reading the instructions for voting before punching anything. I ensured that I voted for my candidate in the proper manner. That's the least we can ask of every single voter in this country, and it's far from being a burdensome task.
Let me make one change. The ballot in Georgia is THE SAME (now that I read a description in this thread about the voting apparatus -- it did not use the "butterfly" layout, but the mechanics are identical). The holes did line up, but you had to ensure that they did so when putting your ballot in the slot. I did make sure they lined up, and I rechecked it for every page. I am sure that my three year old niece could have done the same.
I say again: If they re-vote in Palm Beach County, the entire country needs to re-vote. Simple.
desy: Of course stupid people have just as much right to vote as intelligent people, just as the uneducated have same right to vote as the educated. HOWEVER, this right does not come without obligations. It is a right to vote, but I would also consider it a civic obligation, which unfortunately too few people realize. Pursuant to that obligation or that right, is the duty to inform oneself and make an educated (in the sense of the issues, not diplomas) vote for the candidate that best represents your views. Further, everyone has the same opportunity to vote and the same materials to do so.
These voters in Palm Beach County received the ballot ahead of time, according to the Governor and the press, had every opportunity to examine the ballot and the machine before voting, and (this is critical) could have protested at the polling station or requested a new ballot if they had made a mistake. If they had THOUGHT they made a mistake, they should have requested a new ballot. Simply because they were embarrassed or only realized when they went home is not an excuse. Thousands of other voters punched Gore without issue.
We cannot and SHOULD NOT make this country accessible to the lowest common denominator. There are responsibilities on the part of citizens of this country -- we do not just have rights without obligation. That is the fallacy of the liberals -- entitlements without any restrictions, obligations, or responsibilities. If you cannot vote accurately, it is NOT the government's fault -- it is yours. ACCEPT that responsibility and live with it. Next time, take a little more and assert your right to either have someone help you or to redo the ballot until it is correct. We cannot bend over backwards for every single person who cannot handle their affairs. What's next? Pictures on the ballots since the illiterate cannot read the names?
Though the ballot in Georgia was different, I spent about a minute or so examining it in detail and reading the instructions for voting before punching anything. I ensured that I voted for my candidate in the proper manner. That's the least we can ask of every single voter in this country, and it's far from being a burdensome task.
Let me make one change. The ballot in Georgia is THE SAME (now that I read a description in this thread about the voting apparatus -- it did not use the "butterfly" layout, but the mechanics are identical). The holes did line up, but you had to ensure that they did so when putting your ballot in the slot. I did make sure they lined up, and I rechecked it for every page. I am sure that my three year old niece could have done the same.
I say again: If they re-vote in Palm Beach County, the entire country needs to re-vote. Simple.
we all fail to see:
if you were runing for president, and see your chance and LIFE slip by that thin of a hair, you would do everything possilbe to win, and dont say therwise cause you are just lying to yourself
gore isnt exactly the best of peoepl, but he wont lead to nuclear war like some peeps at my job keep saying
bush...egh well, again the lesser of the two evils
if you were runing for president, and see your chance and LIFE slip by that thin of a hair, you would do everything possilbe to win, and dont say therwise cause you are just lying to yourself
gore isnt exactly the best of peoepl, but he wont lead to nuclear war like some peeps at my job keep saying
bush...egh well, again the lesser of the two evils
Red,
Obviously, I did not argue that some need to have the vote kept from them. I guess it is too
much to ask for people to take their time and ask for help when they need it.
I am very thankful that thanks to the sacrifice of many lives, we have the privilege of voting. Too bad some people treat that privilege so flippantly.
Obviously, I did not argue that some need to have the vote kept from them. I guess it is too
much to ask for people to take their time and ask for help when they need it.
I am very thankful that thanks to the sacrifice of many lives, we have the privilege of voting. Too bad some people treat that privilege so flippantly.
Bush supporters are running around yelling ONLY .79% were for Buchanan in Palm Beach county, a highly democratic area. Like thats almost nothing. The percent for Buchanan in all of Florida was .31%
I don't think having over 2 and 1/2 times the percentage in a highly demoratic area than in Florida's state average is small!!
For those interested .79% is 3407 people in West Palm Beach county. The difference between Bush and Gore was 1725 in Florida*!
NOW IT'S LESS THAT 700 VOTE DIFFERENCE!!!
* MSNBC.com, ABCNEWS.GO.com, CBS.com
I don't think having over 2 and 1/2 times the percentage in a highly demoratic area than in Florida's state average is small!!
For those interested .79% is 3407 people in West Palm Beach county. The difference between Bush and Gore was 1725 in Florida*!
NOW IT'S LESS THAT 700 VOTE DIFFERENCE!!!
* MSNBC.com, ABCNEWS.GO.com, CBS.com
Here are the raw numbers from abcnews.com (which seems to have the most comprehensive coverage -- rather impressive as far as figures are concerned):
Palm Beach County:
Gore -- 269,696
Bush -- 152,954
Buchanan -- 3,407
So, 269,696 voters were able to correctly decipher which hole corresponded to Gore? Also, how do the Dems explain the number of Buchanan supporters in 1996 compared to this election? It was much higher, as I have seen posted several times (8,000 or so).
One aspect that has confused me: They are numerous reports of how 19,000 ballots were discarded for having more than one hole punched. Has ANYONE come forward saying that they did that? I haven't seen a single account from anyone that has claimed to have punched two holes. Has anyone seen anything? If there are 19,000 people, you'd think someone would be mentioned by the national media since they have reported dozens of people claiming that they KNOW (how, I'm not sure) that they voted for Buchanan instead of Gore. None that say they hit it twice (if they did, then they bear the burden for correcting the mistake, which is patently obvious, mind you -- it's also not been reported which two holes were punched as it could very well be that they voted for Bush and Gore as a statement on the adequacy of the candidates).
Palm Beach County:
Gore -- 269,696
Bush -- 152,954
Buchanan -- 3,407
So, 269,696 voters were able to correctly decipher which hole corresponded to Gore? Also, how do the Dems explain the number of Buchanan supporters in 1996 compared to this election? It was much higher, as I have seen posted several times (8,000 or so).
One aspect that has confused me: They are numerous reports of how 19,000 ballots were discarded for having more than one hole punched. Has ANYONE come forward saying that they did that? I haven't seen a single account from anyone that has claimed to have punched two holes. Has anyone seen anything? If there are 19,000 people, you'd think someone would be mentioned by the national media since they have reported dozens of people claiming that they KNOW (how, I'm not sure) that they voted for Buchanan instead of Gore. None that say they hit it twice (if they did, then they bear the burden for correcting the mistake, which is patently obvious, mind you -- it's also not been reported which two holes were punched as it could very well be that they voted for Bush and Gore as a statement on the adequacy of the candidates).
The only thing defective about the ballot used in west Palm Beach, is the voter filling it out!
To fragarific I would say, "Who Cares!" Maybe when those people that mistakenly voted for Buchanan learn to read and follow the simple arrow, this .79 percent will be smart enough to vote Republican.
Bush warned us all about this during the debates. Remember his speech about the "paper filler outers"? 
To red dawn I say this, spelling as well as character, counts. You obviously don't understand the hazard of having gore as Commander-in-Chief. When foreign powers know you are untruthful, they are more apt to challenge your authority or presence. Besides, gore does not have the confidence of the military, because we who serve, know him to be unworthy.
To those constantly referring to the 1996 Buchanan vote count I wouldn't use that argument. You have inadvertently made the case for a re-vote. The same ballot approach was used in 1996, but the problem with punching the wrong hole wasn't discovered by people outside the Election Commission until this year! Since Gore won the State of Florida in 1996, the issue was moot anyway.
To those who think if you're too stupid to line up the ballot properly you shouldn't be allowed to vote or your vote shouldn't count, I would remind you that the right to vote is the most precious right under our constitution and may not be curtailed with intelligence or literacy tests. The burden is on the states to produce a procedure that is adequate and fair.
In this case, the Palm Beach County ballot is in violation of the Florida State Statutes, per many commentators and MY lawyer. (The punch holes must all be on the right side of the name.) The Florida Supreme Court is very liberal on this issue, so if the case gets there, they WILL order a revote.
I find it interesting that Republicans think a re-vote is unfair and Democrats think it is the right thing to do.
But this is not just a case of whose ox is gored. No one's vote should be disqualified when the Board of Elections has participated in the cause of disqualification. The right to vote should be preserved wholly intact, or we won't continue to be a representative democracy.
Edit: 1998 Florida Supreme Court case
Further Edit: In another thread, several people seem to be under the impression that this is a Federal Court issue. Not true...yet. Only if civil rights issues are raised will this be a Federal case. This will stop at the Florida Supreme Court most likely.
All of which is very interesting, partisan politics aside.
To those who think if you're too stupid to line up the ballot properly you shouldn't be allowed to vote or your vote shouldn't count, I would remind you that the right to vote is the most precious right under our constitution and may not be curtailed with intelligence or literacy tests. The burden is on the states to produce a procedure that is adequate and fair.
In this case, the Palm Beach County ballot is in violation of the Florida State Statutes, per many commentators and MY lawyer. (The punch holes must all be on the right side of the name.) The Florida Supreme Court is very liberal on this issue, so if the case gets there, they WILL order a revote.
I find it interesting that Republicans think a re-vote is unfair and Democrats think it is the right thing to do.
But this is not just a case of whose ox is gored.
No one's vote should be disqualified when the Board of Elections has participated in the cause of disqualification. The right to vote should be preserved wholly intact, or we won't continue to be a representative democracy. Edit: 1998 Florida Supreme Court case
Further Edit: In another thread, several people seem to be under the impression that this is a Federal Court issue. Not true...yet. Only if civil rights issues are raised will this be a Federal case. This will stop at the Florida Supreme Court most likely.
All of which is very interesting, partisan politics aside.
just another case of trying to steal an election by democrats.
It is quite clear how Democrats feel about honesty in public office. If your party leader lies while in office & it is OK. What is wrong with trying to subvert an election ?
It is quite clear how Democrats feel about honesty in public office. If your party leader lies while in office & it is OK. What is wrong with trying to subvert an election ?
chess9
I don't think I've ever ran across anyone that can twist facts more handily than you seem to. You say
<< The same ballot approach was used in 1996, but the problem with punching the wrong hole wasn't discovered by people outside the Election Commission until this year! >>
, as if you know that to be a fact when in actuality it is nothing more than specualtion at best or an outright lie at worst. Where is the evidence to support your statement? Got any? And I did say evidence, not what your lawyer, a media personality or "someone" told you. Cough it up.
You assume that the demographics of the county would prevent those voting from doing so for Buchanan in '96 or any election. I would call that opinion highly stereotypical, somewhat racist, and enormously presumptive. The position that you've stated in this and in many other threads is that since these people are Jewish they would never vote for Buchanan. Why not twist that a little and say that no black person would ever vote for XXXXXXX, or no Hispanic would ever support YYYYYYYY ? Do you REALLY subscribe to that philosophy? If so, then your "highly informed opinions" aren't worth the time it takes to read them, and it is patently obvious why to anyone with more than an ounce of gray matter, plus you belittle and disgrace those whom you purport to defend.
<< I would remind you that the right to vote is the most precious right under our constitution and may not be curtailed with intelligence or literacy tests. The burden is on the states to produce a procedure that is adequate and fair. >>
Absolutely correct. Everyone, legally registered, regardless of intelligence has the right to vote. Along with that comes the responsibility to know what you're doing and do it right. Noone has the right of government oversight to make sure they exercise their right to vote properly, only that any questions they have may be addressed. Or perhaps you support everyone being "helped" in the voting booth to the point that you make sure they vote for the right person. Is that what you are advocating?
As for the second part of your statement, I'd say that is correct also. Now, tell me how the State would go about producing such a fair and adequate procedure? How about this way? Each county/precinct has election officials, from both parties perhaps, that design and agree on a ballot, submit it to state election officials for approval far in advance of an election, and it is either approved or rejected for use. Following approval, the newly designed ballot now becomes official and is subject to all current election laws and regulations. The ballot would then be advertised in all local papers, or perhaps mailed to all registered voters well in advance of an election, so that the voters could then perform their responsibility attendant to their right to vote by becoming familiar with and understanding how they should use the ballot, thereby alleviating any confusion the change might create on election day. Does that sound like a fair process to you? It certainly does to me, and that is EXACTLY how this ballot came into use. Saying otherwise is nothing more than propagating untruths.
<< In this case, the Palm Beach County ballot is in violation of the Florida State Statutes, per many commentators and MY lawyer. >>
With all due respect to those commentators and YOUR lawyer, neither know what they are talking about. I don't purport to be a judge but the statutes are quite plain if you'll take the time to read them and they absolutely do NOT state what those commentators OR your lawyer claim. Any reasonable person, or Judge even, would have no trouble at all deciphering exactly what the statutes say. I would humbly suggest that you seek other council promptly just in case there comes a time when you may REALLY need them. That, and perhaps it might would be a good idea to stop believing everything "commentators" on the T.V. and radio say and do a little research for yourself. The statutes ARE after all public record and open to anyone. You can read them for yourself here... Statutes ... Section 101.27 covers voting machine ballots and is quite clear. You may wish to pay special attention to subsection 6 which states...
<< 6) Should the above directions for the complete preparation of the ballot be insufficient, the Department of State shall determine and prescribe any additional matter or form in which the ballot may be printed. >>
That final section in and of itself negates all of the arguments put forward about marking an X to the right of the candidates. It clearly states that the Department of State has the authority to approve any ballot form, as they did with the Palm Beach ballot.
<< No one's vote should be disqualified when the Board of Elections has participated in the cause of disqualification. >>
The "Board of Elections" has done no such thing. The ballot was legally designed, prepared, submitted to and approved by the Department of State for use in this election. All statutes governing its use were observed and complied with. The disqualification of anyone's vote who used this ballot is entirely due to the person/s who excercised their right while neglecting their responsibility. Neither the State, the election officials, Buchanan, Bush voters, nor little green men from Mars are at fault in this situation, and the rule of law applies even to those among us who shirk responsibility for their own actions. It even applies to elections, voting procedures and their results, political parties, and Presidential candidates.
Paraphrasing your last statement, The Rule of Law should be preserved wholly intact, or we won't continue to be a representative democracy.
I don't think I've ever ran across anyone that can twist facts more handily than you seem to. You say
<< The same ballot approach was used in 1996, but the problem with punching the wrong hole wasn't discovered by people outside the Election Commission until this year! >>
, as if you know that to be a fact when in actuality it is nothing more than specualtion at best or an outright lie at worst. Where is the evidence to support your statement? Got any? And I did say evidence, not what your lawyer, a media personality or "someone" told you. Cough it up.
You assume that the demographics of the county would prevent those voting from doing so for Buchanan in '96 or any election. I would call that opinion highly stereotypical, somewhat racist, and enormously presumptive. The position that you've stated in this and in many other threads is that since these people are Jewish they would never vote for Buchanan. Why not twist that a little and say that no black person would ever vote for XXXXXXX, or no Hispanic would ever support YYYYYYYY ? Do you REALLY subscribe to that philosophy? If so, then your "highly informed opinions" aren't worth the time it takes to read them, and it is patently obvious why to anyone with more than an ounce of gray matter, plus you belittle and disgrace those whom you purport to defend.
<< I would remind you that the right to vote is the most precious right under our constitution and may not be curtailed with intelligence or literacy tests. The burden is on the states to produce a procedure that is adequate and fair. >>
Absolutely correct. Everyone, legally registered, regardless of intelligence has the right to vote. Along with that comes the responsibility to know what you're doing and do it right. Noone has the right of government oversight to make sure they exercise their right to vote properly, only that any questions they have may be addressed. Or perhaps you support everyone being "helped" in the voting booth to the point that you make sure they vote for the right person. Is that what you are advocating?
As for the second part of your statement, I'd say that is correct also. Now, tell me how the State would go about producing such a fair and adequate procedure? How about this way? Each county/precinct has election officials, from both parties perhaps, that design and agree on a ballot, submit it to state election officials for approval far in advance of an election, and it is either approved or rejected for use. Following approval, the newly designed ballot now becomes official and is subject to all current election laws and regulations. The ballot would then be advertised in all local papers, or perhaps mailed to all registered voters well in advance of an election, so that the voters could then perform their responsibility attendant to their right to vote by becoming familiar with and understanding how they should use the ballot, thereby alleviating any confusion the change might create on election day. Does that sound like a fair process to you? It certainly does to me, and that is EXACTLY how this ballot came into use. Saying otherwise is nothing more than propagating untruths.
<< In this case, the Palm Beach County ballot is in violation of the Florida State Statutes, per many commentators and MY lawyer. >>
With all due respect to those commentators and YOUR lawyer, neither know what they are talking about. I don't purport to be a judge but the statutes are quite plain if you'll take the time to read them and they absolutely do NOT state what those commentators OR your lawyer claim. Any reasonable person, or Judge even, would have no trouble at all deciphering exactly what the statutes say. I would humbly suggest that you seek other council promptly just in case there comes a time when you may REALLY need them. That, and perhaps it might would be a good idea to stop believing everything "commentators" on the T.V. and radio say and do a little research for yourself. The statutes ARE after all public record and open to anyone. You can read them for yourself here... Statutes ... Section 101.27 covers voting machine ballots and is quite clear. You may wish to pay special attention to subsection 6 which states...
<< 6) Should the above directions for the complete preparation of the ballot be insufficient, the Department of State shall determine and prescribe any additional matter or form in which the ballot may be printed. >>
That final section in and of itself negates all of the arguments put forward about marking an X to the right of the candidates. It clearly states that the Department of State has the authority to approve any ballot form, as they did with the Palm Beach ballot.
<< No one's vote should be disqualified when the Board of Elections has participated in the cause of disqualification. >>
The "Board of Elections" has done no such thing. The ballot was legally designed, prepared, submitted to and approved by the Department of State for use in this election. All statutes governing its use were observed and complied with. The disqualification of anyone's vote who used this ballot is entirely due to the person/s who excercised their right while neglecting their responsibility. Neither the State, the election officials, Buchanan, Bush voters, nor little green men from Mars are at fault in this situation, and the rule of law applies even to those among us who shirk responsibility for their own actions. It even applies to elections, voting procedures and their results, political parties, and Presidential candidates.
Paraphrasing your last statement, The Rule of Law should be preserved wholly intact, or we won't continue to be a representative democracy.
Format C:
I'm not a lawyer, and don't pretend to be. I can only recite what I hear and read, and certainly not the right wing cacaphony you often parrot with ease.
First of all, the voting machine part of the statute is irrelevant because the plaintiffs will argue Palm Beach County was not using a voting machine. That has been mentioned by numerous commentators, but I'm not surprised you failed to mention it. Anyway, the ballots in question appear to be paper ballots. No Republican representative, to my knowledge, is arguing otherwise. Since you aren't a lawyer, your interpretation of the statute is worth exactly zilch.
If you know some Jewish voters who voted for Buchanan, please give us their names. I'd like to speak with one. Your argument in this respect, in particular, is absurd.
The 1996 election, particularly with the respect to the Reform Party and its many branches, was vastly different from this election, except for the fact the same ballot design was used. That has been mentioned several times in the media, but, again, I'm not surpised you missed it. Does it mean it is unerringly true? No, but very likely.
The local Board of Elections or Supervisor of Elections, or whoever the h*ll it is in the STATE or LOCAL GOVERNMENT designed and approved the ballot. The design is intrinsically flawed, i.e. the flaw is not readily discernable by simply viewing the ballot without using the associated punch board. If the ballot does not comply with State law, a judge will have to decide whether that failure is significant enough to warrant a new election in Palm Beach County. Right now, I'd say almost all the strong arguments militate in favor of those arguing the ballot is defective and a re-vote should be ordered. From what I've been told of the Florida Supreme Court-all of whom are Democrats-they are liberal and would probably order a re-vote.
If I haven't responded to your other comments, it is because they are either boring ad hominem, or stupid.
I'm not a lawyer, and don't pretend to be. I can only recite what I hear and read, and certainly not the right wing cacaphony you often parrot with ease.
First of all, the voting machine part of the statute is irrelevant because the plaintiffs will argue Palm Beach County was not using a voting machine. That has been mentioned by numerous commentators, but I'm not surprised you failed to mention it. Anyway, the ballots in question appear to be paper ballots. No Republican representative, to my knowledge, is arguing otherwise. Since you aren't a lawyer, your interpretation of the statute is worth exactly zilch.
If you know some Jewish voters who voted for Buchanan, please give us their names. I'd like to speak with one. Your argument in this respect, in particular, is absurd.
The 1996 election, particularly with the respect to the Reform Party and its many branches, was vastly different from this election, except for the fact the same ballot design was used. That has been mentioned several times in the media, but, again, I'm not surpised you missed it. Does it mean it is unerringly true? No, but very likely.
The local Board of Elections or Supervisor of Elections, or whoever the h*ll it is in the STATE or LOCAL GOVERNMENT designed and approved the ballot. The design is intrinsically flawed, i.e. the flaw is not readily discernable by simply viewing the ballot without using the associated punch board. If the ballot does not comply with State law, a judge will have to decide whether that failure is significant enough to warrant a new election in Palm Beach County. Right now, I'd say almost all the strong arguments militate in favor of those arguing the ballot is defective and a re-vote should be ordered. From what I've been told of the Florida Supreme Court-all of whom are Democrats-they are liberal and would probably order a re-vote.
If I haven't responded to your other comments, it is because they are either boring ad hominem, or stupid.
chess9: I would advise you to retain another lawyer. Or, at the very least, don't rely on him to interpret statutes. See here for more explanation: See comments toward the end.
<< To those who think if you're too stupid to line up the ballot properly you shouldn't be allowed to vote or your vote shouldn't count, I would remind you that the right to vote is the most precious right under our constitution and may not be curtailed with intelligence or literacy tests. The burden is on the states to produce a procedure that is adequate and fair. >>
You are correct -- voting is the most precious right we have in a republic. That being said, there are responsibilities associated with that right, including the careful exercise of it. If you doubt your ability to do so, you have the option to ask for help, and you have the ability to request a new ballot if you make a mistake. It is not up to the government to make the election stupid-proof, regardless of what Democrats think.
This country cannot and should not be dumbed down for everyone who cannot figure out how to read a ballot simple enough for a grade schooler to decipher. 269,000 people in that very county figured it out -- is there something special about those Gore voters?
<< To those who think if you're too stupid to line up the ballot properly you shouldn't be allowed to vote or your vote shouldn't count, I would remind you that the right to vote is the most precious right under our constitution and may not be curtailed with intelligence or literacy tests. The burden is on the states to produce a procedure that is adequate and fair. >>
You are correct -- voting is the most precious right we have in a republic. That being said, there are responsibilities associated with that right, including the careful exercise of it. If you doubt your ability to do so, you have the option to ask for help, and you have the ability to request a new ballot if you make a mistake. It is not up to the government to make the election stupid-proof, regardless of what Democrats think.
This country cannot and should not be dumbed down for everyone who cannot figure out how to read a ballot simple enough for a grade schooler to decipher. 269,000 people in that very county figured it out -- is there something special about those Gore voters?
Andrew:
Sorry, my Republican friend, but I don't think those arguments will fly. But neither of us will decide. The Florida Courts will decide whether this was a paper ballot or a machine ballot and whose name was where.
Being a Democrat, I have to disagree with your viewpoint, of course.
Sorry, my Republican friend, but I don't think those arguments will fly. But neither of us will decide. The Florida Courts will decide whether this was a paper ballot or a machine ballot and whose name was where.
Being a Democrat, I have to disagree with your viewpoint, of course.
While the ballot was made public, I don't think the machine to put it in was mailed out too, and that seems to be where the problem was; you put the ballot in the doohikey, and, rushed for time (they only had five minutes to work through all the elections/initiatives), it was way too easy to make a mistake. As I've mentioned, I have friends down there who are intellegent people (who do NOT drive their cars into pools, thank you! ), and they had a hard time with that stupid ballot in the stupid machine!
), and they had a hard time with that stupid ballot in the stupid machine!Lets talk about the vast majority (96%) of the voters in Palm Beach county who had no problem deciphering said ballot. This talk of voters being "disenfranchised" is crap. Nobody stopped them from voting or making their own choices in the voting booth. We all have a certain responsibility to pay attention to what we are doing when we vote. If we accidentally choose two people for the same office all we have to do is ask for another ballot. If we get confused as to our choices on the ballot all we have to do is ask for clarification. Once we drop that ballot in the box it's over. If you screwed up and didn't try to rectify the situation before that, too bad, you just disenfranchised yourself.
This talk of a "do over" is ridiculous. How about if I request a do over on the company football pool because the photocopy form was hard to read, or, I thought the Chiefs were playing the Bengals last week instead of the Raiders? Do I get to keep "doing over" until I get a 15-0 result?
This talk of a "do over" is ridiculous. How about if I request a do over on the company football pool because the photocopy form was hard to read, or, I thought the Chiefs were playing the Bengals last week instead of the Raiders? Do I get to keep "doing over" until I get a 15-0 result?
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