Question Alder Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

With the release of Alder Lake less than a week away and the "Lakes" thread having turned into a nightmare to navigate I thought it might be a good time to start a discussion thread solely for Alder Lake.

 

[Makaveli]

Wow 51ns at 100GB/s; that's lower latency than my 3600mhz DDR4 2 * 32GB kit on X570.

What is the latency of your sticks?

 

[Det0x]

Wow 51ns at 100GB/s; that's lower latency than my 3600mhz DDR4 2 * 32GB kit on X570.

Well, Aida64 is only "measuring" the performance in aida64 itself.. Not always a good measuring stick..
Here is my 85GB/s using ddr4 on ryzen.

 

[clemsyn]

12600K Blender Result (40% OC)

 

[Space Tyrant]

My 12600K GeekBench 5 Score with 40% overclock with iGPU (Vulcan/OpenCL)

Could you post the link to your GB 5 page?

 

[igor_kavinski]

If Alder Lake mobile beats Apple M1's ST performance at 35W, Intel's revenge will be complete. Then at least mere mortals will be able to get that performance level in cheap $600 laptops. Apple might have good things going for it, but man, their prices make my eyes water.

 

[uzzi38]

Huh, that's surprising.

Not that it changes much, if anything it just shows how Cezanne's freq/voltage scaling is worse than Vermeer's at higher clocks. After all, the Vermeer chip there is also set to a higher voltage - 1.35v vs 1.4v yet pulls essentially the same power, which just simply doesn't make sense.

I already provided a pretty clear perf/W chart with Renoir vs Matisse, and to show that Cezanne is more like Renoir than it is Matisse/Vermeer, here:s the same graph for the 5700G:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/697380330864115792/877430531132899338/E8b6BM1X0AUjF7z.png

Follow up time, just became aware of this comparison:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/682674504878522386/907368544445022218/biapl78p4ey71.png

 

[uzzi38]

If Alder Lake mobile beats Apple M1's ST performance at 35W, Intel's revenge will be complete. Then at least mere mortals will be able to get that performance level in cheap $600 laptops. Apple might have good things going for it, but man, their prices make my eyes water.

Uh, beating Apple's ST performance within a 35W power budget is easy.

Beating Apple's MT performance within a 35W budget is the difficult one.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Uh, beating Apple's ST performance within a 35W power budget is easy.

Beating Apple's MT performance within a 35W budget is the difficult one.

Average Joe doesn't really want MT. But snappy UI responsiveness will get his attention.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Follow up time, just became aware of this comparison:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/682674504878522386/907368544445022218/biapl78p4ey71.png

How come 5600G is so power efficient?

 

[gdansk]

What does 1 GC core draw at ~5.2GHz? 25W?

 

[uzzi38]

What does 1 GC core draw at ~5.2GHz? 25W?

Unfortunately I haven't seen any reviews testing this and I don't blame them. Intel lacks per-core power monitoring, making it extremely difficult to seperate per-core power.

 

[clemsyn]

Could you post the link to your GB 5 page?

Its on post #723 but here is a screenshot

 

[Roland00Address]

If Alder Lake mobile beats Apple M1's ST performance at 35W, Intel's revenge will be complete. Then at least mere mortals will be able to get that performance level in cheap $600 laptops. Apple might have good things going for it, but man, their prices make my eyes water.

Arbitrary standard, but yeah.

Just a reminder laptop m1 starts off at 899 even if the msrp is 999, see Amazon, Microcenter, etc.

Likewise most Laptops are 20w and less for it allows cheaper everything else while being thinner. There is a place for 35w socs, I want 35w socs as well as ultraportable socs but it is not going to be common in the 599 to 699 price range.

But yeah Intel was always going to catch up with 2020 apple single thread performance, it was just going to be a question when whether 2022 or 2024 or a different year.

 

[Hitman928]

What does 1 GC core draw at ~5.2GHz? 25W?

GC draws just over 200 W for 8 p cores at 4.9 GHz. Subtracting package power and upping the frequency, 25W is probably a decent estimate, maybe even a little higher.

 

[Arkaign]

Lol. "Arbitrary Standard" should be the official trademark of Apple.

And forget 2020 Apple performance, given that the newest M1 derivatives still lag in peak ST performance to these releases.

I think the leapfrog wargames between Intel and AMD will make the M family a bit of an afterthought at best, as it will be good enough for Apple loyalists, very good for Apple profit margins, but continually irrelevant for people needing either good value or high performance options. Alder Refresh, Zen4, etc seem primed to ignite significant carnage.

Edit : Oh no, I've angered an Apple fan 😂😂 The downvote, so devastating 🤣🤣

Hilarious, and revealing at the same time.

 

[pakotlar]

What is the latency of your sticks?

Around 60 iirc, but 2*32GB at 3600 at cas 18, so not the best timings.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Does this have to devolve into "No my favorite CPU beats yours in this benchmark..." (usually by some irrelevant amount)?

This is the Alder Lake thread, and it's a large jump that puts Intel back in the game. Zen 3 was also a great jump for AMD and they have had a great run with it. Apple M1 SoC have really shaken things up, both for the very good CPU but also all the integrated co-processing.

All really great products, that can be appreciated without having bun-fights over minutia.

 

[Arkaign]

Does this have to devolve into "No my favorite CPU beats yours in this benchmark..." (usually by some irrelevant amount)?

This is the Alder Lake thread, and it's a large jump that puts Intel back in the game. Zen 3 was also a great jump for AMD and they have had a great run with it. Apple M1 SoC have really shaken things up, both for the very good CPU but also all the integrated co-processing.

All really great products, that can be appreciated without having bun-fights over minutia.

Well, the thread is definitely about Alder Lake, and unless the conversation is limited to just how Alder compares to Rocket, then it is what it is, people will continue to compare it to current and future products from AMD, Apple, etc. Anyone upset by performance metrics, or overly attached to a particular company may be prone to tantrums etc. 😆

Heavy competition returning to x86 after ages of stagnation owes a lot to the teams at both AMD and Intel, and it seems we have a lot to look forward to.

As much as I've been deeply impressed with Zen3, I'm really happy that the pricing barrier for high performance parts is breaking open to a more mass market way. $200 12400 should equal the 5600X, and when $100ish B660 mobos arrive to pair with Gear1 DDR4, it will really mark a return to more sane pricing.

I also expect Zen4 to come and push the envelope further than ever, albeit that's a fair ways off, and hopefully this time won't come with crushing ASPs.

 

[eek2121]

Does this have to devolve into "No my favorite CPU beats yours in this benchmark..." (usually by some irrelevant amount)?

This is the Alder Lake thread, and it's a large jump that puts Intel back in the game. Zen 3 was also a great jump for AMD and they have had a great run with it. Apple M1 SoC have really shaken things up, both for the very good CPU but also all the integrated co-processing.

All really great products, that can be appreciated without having bun-fights over minutia.

Only Apple fans, many of which are too young to remember the days of PPC, when Apple couldn’t keep up with anyone.

 

[gdansk]

Does this have to devolve into "No my favorite CPU beats yours in this benchmark..." (usually by some irrelevant amount)?

This is the Alder Lake thread, and it's a large jump that puts Intel back in the game. Zen 3 was also a great jump for AMD and they have had a great run with it. Apple M1 SoC have really shaken things up, both for the very good CPU but also all the integrated co-processing.

All really great products, that can be appreciated without having bun-fights over minutia.

Yes, it's an exciting time. Three companies producing faster CPUs for personal computers. A much better position than 5-10 years ago.

 

[Arkaign]

Only Apple fans, many of which are too young to remember the days of PPC, when Apple couldn’t keep up with anyone.

I was actually sad to see Motorola and then PPC continually decline over time.

The mental gymnastics of the early to mid 2000s Apple world were insane to witness. Athlon 64 and X2 were basically ignored by the devout, and we kept hearing about how amazing the Mac Pro was despite it getting completely obliterated in benchmarks by the AMD64 stuff. Then they swapped to Intel and Conroe and everyone claiming how the G5 was better than literally everything suddenly had nothing to say.

Brand devotees puzzle me. These companies quite literally couldn't care less about you than a hole in the ground. If there was profit in grinding children to pulp and they could get away with it, they absolutely would, 100 times out of 100. There are no 'good' guys when speaking of corporations. Only varying levels of decadent and predatory.

As consumers we can only support what we see as the least bad option at any given time. The best mix of price, performance, and platform freedom.

 

[scannall]

I was actually sad to see Motorola and then PPC continually decline over time.

The mental gymnastics of the early to mid 2000s Apple world were insane to witness. Athlon 64 and X2 were basically ignored by the devout, and we kept hearing about how amazing the Mac Pro was despite it getting completely obliterated in benchmarks by the AMD64 stuff. Then they swapped to Intel and Conroe and everyone claiming how the G5 was better than literally everything suddenly had nothing to say.

Brand devotees puzzle me. These companies quite literally couldn't care less about you than a hole in the ground. If there was profit in grinding children to pulp and they could get away with it, they absolutely would, 100 times out of 100. There are no 'good' guys when speaking of corporations. Only varying levels of decadent and predatory.

As consumers we can only support what we see as the least bad option at any given time. The best mix of price, performance, and platform freedom.

Eh, when the G5 came out it was up against Intel's Pentium 4. Ran circles around it. But it stagnated since IBM and Motorola decided to pretty much stop developing the PowerPC line.

 

[Arkaign]

Eh, when the G5 came out it was up against Intel's Pentium 4. Ran circles around it. But it stagnated since IBM and Motorola decided to pretty much stop developing the PowerPC line.

Agreed. It's beautifully illustrated here :

No more mysteries: Apple's G5 versus x86, Mac OS X versus Linux

www.anandtech.com

Now, it's feeling kind of familiar with the rise of Zen and now the Alder family. Apple gets into a walled architecture while a heavy battle between Intel and AMD results in a wild escalation in performance.

 

[lobz]

Not to mention Intel of all companies has just charged in to save us, peasants, with (soon, hopefully?) offering actual lower end models and still awesome performance. What a year 🤣

 

[coercitiv]

Not to mention Intel of all companies has just charged in to save us, peasants, with (soon, hopefully?) offering actual lower end models and still awesome performance. What a year 🤣

What I'm enjoying the most is the dichotomy of praising the new hybrid architecture while acknowledging that the classic setup on the 6+0 chips will be the one to bring that awesome perf/dollar ratio.

It's almost as if it wasn't the innovation behind hybrids we we missing, but simply a decent architecture on a competitive node. Reminds me of a joke about a man who is feeling depressed due to his poor social status, with a very crowded and noisy home. The village elder advises him to move his cow in the home as well, then his donkey, then his chickens. The man obviously becomes increasingly stressed, to the point of desperation. Then the elder tells him to progressively remove the chickens, donkey, and finally the cow. The man can barely contain his feelings of happiness and gratitude for his newfound life.

That's where we are, Intel finally removed all the 14nm manure from their home and we're so grateful and happy with... a state of normalcy.