Ah the Idiots in this world #1

[PistachioByAzul]

I cannot prove that the cop is racist or that this incident had anything to do with people of different races, nor can you in anyway disprove that this could be race related.

EXACTLY, so why bring it up? Until some evidence comes up that says otherwise, race should not be a factor, it only makes the situation uglier.

"Racist" is not a word to be used lightly.

 

[ArkAoss]

|\|

 

[DABANSHEE]

America is slowly but surely becoming a police state


Ah, actually Cybersax, the US is by many factors a police state -

Worlds highest rate of incaserations
worlds highest rate of policing
worlds highest rate of police shooting incidents
worlds highest rates of fatalities by law enforcement
worlds highest forfeiture rates too

I remember when I was in the states, twice the cops pulled up & hassled me, because I was out walking at night. The second time they even took the beer I had & poured it in the gutter & threatened to arrest me, the only reason they didnt was because I was an 'Aussie'. They also said that only 'badguys' are out walking at night. I couldn't beleive it, cops in Australia or Europe just don't behave like that. My brother also got arrested for drinking while in the states & he also got arrested once for driving with a case of beer on the back seat, what sort of law is that?

It does seem many Americans have been conned by all that Hollywood goodguys/badguys shi!t into thinking cops can't do no bad & they have to be supported no matter what.

Yet we have incidents like that LA copper who admitted to murdering 9 people & framing 70 others. Or police that get bonuses such as ski trips to Aspen, based on forfetures. So we have cases like what happened in Louisiana where over 100 motorists driving high value interstate cars were framed just so they could confiscate their cars. Or this case in LA

6. News in Brief
http://www.drcnet.org/wol/121.html#newsbriefs


Scott Family to Get $5 Million Settlement for Shooting Death

An agreement has been reached between the state of California, the county of Los Angeles and the family of Donald P. Scott that will give Scott's family $5 million in compensation for his death at the hands of police. Scott, a 61 year-old millionaire, was shot dead in his home by agents
of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office as they executed a no-knock warrant looking for marijuana. No drugs were ever found on the property, and a subsequent investigation
by Ventura County District Attorney Michael Bradbury concluded that the warrant was secured with false information. "Clearly one of the primary purposes was a land grab by the Sheriff's Department," he told reporters.

& this is going on right across the US, cops are framing people & intruding on poeples lives just to gain forfeture money & bonuses. Fact is the US has the most extreme forfeture laws in the world. Surely that makes it a police state of sorts

BTW, Viper GTS, you say that cops need guns to protect you from the bad guys, but what makes you think the cops arn't the bad guys.

In my time I've disarmed to people with knives, its not hard to do. Really things like knives, or rakes for that matter are only an effective weapon in a surprise attack. Once the element of surprise is gone they are no longer effective, unless the person with the knife/rake is trained/proficient in its use. That policeman could have simply ran away.

This problem really goes back to training, cops are just trained to pull out their gun & shoot the torso, no matter what the situation is. Because useally the cops who do the training are full on wanker/macho types with number 2 blade haircuts & a gun collection that fills half their house & a stack of 'Soldier of Fortune' mags 2 feet high. So consequently cops are told to 'when in doubt, shoot the torso'. No one thinks to tell the cop that if they take that course of action they'l probably regret it for the rest of their lives, be put on desk duty, & end up a alcoholic because of the nightmares. Consquentlty cops reach for the gun instead of just running away then calling for backup.

 

[Czar]

Good post Debanshe,

 

[cfredc]

AHAHAHAHHAHAH......Im sorry but i have to laugh.... a cop running away from what it should confront?.... leeme see... next time a cop sees a guy with a knife or a sharp-toothed rake, the cop should run away.... doesnt that defeat the purpose of a cop being there?? Ok, you say that the cop should have disarmed the guy... but what if the guy was bigger than the cop... you also have to discuss the emotional level at the scene... if you a cop, all you heard was that you were confronting a guy with a knife threatining his parents... but when you arrive there he has a rake.... that slight change in weapons can totally throw off somebody especially a rookie....

 

[ArkAoss]

|\|

 

[convex]

i wonder if the same goes for kids with sticks? It should be ok to shoot them aswell in my opinion

 

[ArkAoss]

|\|

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

<< AHAHAHAHHAHAH......Im sorry but i have to laugh.... a cop running away >>

Is that so far-fetched? What's wrong with the cop moving out of range of the &quot;lethal&quot; rake, they had several cops there already and more could have been called in if necessary. You know the cops are going to &quot;win&quot; in the long run, why not take a little longer and do it right, with no loss of life? Are you saying the cop needed to kill the rake man just to save face? More care is taken to spare the life &quot;saving&quot; the stray deer or cougar passing through town than there was with this man.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

ArkAoss, just shut up, really.

 

[cfredc]

yo-ma_ma: if the cop had run away, what happens to the people around him... they get hurt and the cop gets screwed.... cops are supposed to protect us... not run away.. that's what they are there for, and that's why we are supposed to give them respect....

 

[Rudee]

&quot;a rake is a weapon..&quot; Gimme a break. Anything can be a weapon depending on how we define the word weapon. Heck, I can break my mouse against a hard object, exposing the jagged plastic edges and lunge it into your throat. The Cop should of relaxed, stepped back, got out the pepper spray and played the waiting game. Eventually the suspect would of calmed down and he would of been apprehended without incident.

The only reason the Cop had for shooting the suspect would of been the following:

1) The officers life was in immediate danger.
2) Someone else's life was in immediate danger.

Sure, if the guy was going bezerk in the middle of a school playground full of children, force may be used appropriately. But to shoot a man with a damn rake in his hand?? Bullshi!!##. Maybe if the Cop was on his back on the ground and couldn't move away in time then I could see the suspect being shot. But when the Cop has two strong legs to move the hell out of the way, it's a stupid move, and a overall poor decision.

Here's how he should of reacted: Attempt to talk the suspect into dropping the rake. It may take minutes, it take a hour. Do not try to rush the situation as it can alarm the suspect. Relax. Move back so there is at least 10 feet between you and the suspect at all times. Keep your hands on the pepperspray, not the gun. Pointing a gun at a person just intensifies the situation. If the suspect moves forward, you make a equal move backward. Eventually, you may have to use the pepperspray to subdue him, but only in the event that your life is in immediate danger should you shoot. You don't simply shoot when the suspect has a weapon. Only if that weapon is a immediate threat to the life of another. A rake in a persons hand 10 feet away is NOT an immediate threat to life. Maybe if the Cop was backed into a wall, but that's it. The whole thing is Bullshi&amp;^$&amp;*

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

cfredc - I don't mean completely run away, just back off enough to stay out of reach. The man was in his (or his parents') own yard, not in park or anything. I wonder if they could use those tranquilizer dart type of guns like they do on the wild animal shows.

 

[Tran23]

Ok, heres my say in this. I back the cop. Heres the situation I see, from the cops point of view. Your responding to a domestic violence call, the man threatened his family members with a knife. You arrive on the scene seeing him holding a rake, wielding it around, and inching forward to 2 other cops. Not knowing if he has any other weapons, and that you only have a gun and pepper-spray(which only works 5-7 feet), you draw your gun. As the man creeps up within range with the rake to a fellow cop(who is probably yelling at the man to drop the rake) you pull the trigger(which is aimed at his side).

Now, heres my points:
-if he has a knife, and a rake, who's to say he has another weapon
-if anyone assaults or tries to assault a cop, they are authorized to use any force neccessary to take down the assailant
-he was aiming at the side of his torso, which is what they are taught, plus it shows he was trying to disable him, not kill him.
-a gun and pepper spray are the only weapons handed out by detriot PD. Also, since the cop was at a distance, I doubt he would holster his gun, take out his pepper spray and run up to the guy and use it. At a situation like this, you would just use your gut feeling and react.

 

[pen^2]

whoa, sensing a next kilo-thread comin! here is my take...
since i wasnt there at the site, i wont jump the gun and blame one of them; but i do agree the cop took an EXTREME measure. not only they he was only usin a rake, there were SEVERAL cops there. he could have injured cop, but most probably wouldnt have killed him. most of you cop supporters here are sayin he would have potentially been dangerous. does that mean he would have killed the cop 100%? it was more likely the cop could have been hurt, maybe seriously. beeing hurt seriously and forever farewell from the planet earth is a whole different matter.



<< That cop should be sent to prison. He outright murdered that man. >>

EXACTLY thats what would have happened if cops were not treated specially and didnt have any previlige. if you kill someone no matter what, even if it was a self-defense you will have to pay the price of varying degree... yes, cops aint perfect they are human beings. none of us are perfect... say you were driving home and ran over a drunkard and killed him. it is not strictly your fault; however
you do get punished since human life is more valuable than anything. if the guy was about to hurt an untrained individual they could have used a more extreme measure, but even then, not killlin him right away.


<< in nyc last year, an imigrant in the wrong place at the wrong time was cornered by like 4 cops, and while turning around pulled out his wallet from a jacket pocket, first shot cut the aorta and reducted the flow into the lungs, he drowned on his own blood while the 17 of the rest of the 40 bullets entered him, the first shot threw the guy and most of the rest of the shots entered at like his hips and could be traced goin up like he was shot from below he got thrown so hard >>


hey, thanx i was boutta post something about that too. this particular incident aside cops in this ocuntry have shown racist traits here and there. i dont give too much credit to media, but dont you say the whole thing about police brutality/racism is media propaganda as well. until someone can ccome up with concrete/statistical fact to prove me wrong i am holding onto my belief that many cops out there are racists.

 

[DABANSHEE]

Fact is, if someone stood in front of me with a domineering agresive posture &amp; had a rake in his hand, &amp; was behaving in a threatning matter &amp; I pulled out a gun &amp; simply shot him; I would definitly be charged with murder &amp; manslaughter (they always charge you with both, in case the heavier charge is thrown out).

The only way such an incident could be construed as self defence would be if I (or others) had no means of escape &amp; were traped within 'raking' range.

Legally speaking cops have no more rights than anyone else as far as killing &amp; assaulting people are concerned. So they shouldn't be treated any differently by the Crown Prosecution Service or judiciary. If cops feel they couldn't work under such ah 'limitations', then they should resign &amp; make their position avaliable to someone else.

Hypothetically all that cop had to do was back away, so the other cop/s could pepper him with a 'beanbag' round or 2 from their 'Itheca Pump/s'. (or whatever non fatal flechete stuff they can load their shotties with).

 

[glenn1]

Ya know, sometimes i'm starting to wonder if i'm just totally out of touch nowadays. First of all, i absolutely love those who have never, whatsoever faced a dangerous situation saying &quot;this is how this scenario should have played out.&quot; Don't even start about the &quot;it was just a rake&quot; sh!t. I don't give a damn if the dude was waving a toothpick at him, the cop has the authority (granted by we, the citizens of the state) to use deadly force. That is the down payment we give him, for the consideration of putting his life on the line in turn. Period, end of discussion.
Deciding whether using deadly force was appropriate, is for no one on this board to even speculate upon. That's the job now for a shooting review board, and almost certainly a jury. And quite a few who have posted have made it pretty clear that they would be disqualified from serving on that jury, for having passed judgement already. I have news for you, you do not have the full knowledge of the facts of this case, in order to be able to make that judgement.
It's real easy to say that from the comfort of a relatively stress-free modern day life, and even easier that you have all the information laid out in front of you, to think through the situation at your leisure. That officer didn't have that luxury. That doesn't necessarilygive him any justification or immunity for his actions. If, following (what will (hopefully be) a fair trial, our judicial system will take corrective actions, if the jury finds them warranted.
The potential of an honest discussion on racism, i feel, has already been poisoned by both sides. Those believing (correctly in some cases) that racism plays a role in how cops treat those in minority groups, have done their part... by choosing at times to defend some of the filthiest, undeserving, most evil scum of the earth, as &quot;victims of racism.&quot; No, they are just guilty, face reality.
The other side is sometimes just as guilty... in their case, it is by saying that &quot;how does race play into this story?&quot; Well, often they are correct in asking that, but sometimes, it DOES matter.
I think we all can agree that this was a tragic story. Perhaps the outcome could have been a happier one. But, i'm curious if some of the posters honestly believe some of the things that they have said. I got the impression from some posts, they believe that an officer should intentially put his own life at potential risk, should a uncertain threat arise. As if there were some sort of cosmic scale, where the life of the cop doesn't quite equal the life of the accosted. This is totally fusked up. People of your mindset don't celebrate a cop who shows restraint in a situation, and ends up dead because of it, but cry bitter tears for the victim in a tragedy like this.
And i know you won't admit it here, but that's the reality of how some of you feel. And you are sh!t that don't deserve the protection that those same cops provide you. Maybe someday the cop that simply &quot;backs away&quot; from someone with a weapon, rather than confronting the perp, will be the one rescuing you from being harmed. Sort of cosmic justice...

 

[ArkAoss]

GLENN THOSE are the most RIGHT words I've heard in this forum, no one has yet said it better.

 

[DABANSHEE]

Still, I bet if he wasn't a cop, he would have automatically been charged, &amp; it would have been up to the crown prosecuter to make a case of it, whether the evidence stuck or not.

Since cops are equal to everyone else, as far as the law is concerned.

Then why are they treated any differently?

 

[pen^2]

czar, i concur... 3dfx's PR is nauseating! and thats why i hate them!

 

[ArkAoss]

DABANSHEE, THIS TOOK PLACE IN AMERICA, WE DO NOT HAVE A &quot;CROWN PROSECUTTER&quot; WE HAVE A jury of PEERs, (but it wouldnt be a bunch of fellow cops) and in divorce child disputes i bet they dont chose kids who have been thru divorces or parents who've been thru divorces either, they dont even choose people who like children half the time so the kids get stuck with non peers, but back to the point, if another non american drags their frickin countrys judicial system into the fray .. . some places decides things by where a cow sh|ts in a field, what if the cow has diareah??? no one is perfect, id rather have a cop who was willing to risk his life and protect the public, than one who was afraid to endanger his life for fear of being sued for doing what the public puts their trust in him to do, WE PUT OUR FAITH IN COPS TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECICIONS, WE TAKE THE RIGHT FROM OURSELVES AND HAND IT OVER TO THEM, THEY HAVE ALOT OF RESPONSIBILITY, AND IF WE KILL THE COP EVERY TIME HE MAKES AN ERROR, WE WILL RUN OUT OF COPS QUICK,



MY VERDICT, TAKE THE COP OFF THE STREETS, but it could have happened to any cop any wheres, i mean millions of people died in world wars and I dont see any one taking power away from politicians and armys and stuff. would you have sense enough to try sign languaging to some one swingin a rake at you? and this is probably a nice big rake detroit soil is pretty rocky, need a good rake aorund. or would you try talkin slow and forming your words better, or maybe you'd whip out your handy dandy note pad and color him a picture of him puttin down the rake, as it whistles by your scalp

 

[ArkAoss]

WOW, i must have struck some sense, and dignity. a THREAD KILLER COMENT..

 

[DABANSHEE]

Ah, Arkaoss, we also have juries here in Oz, a Crown Prosecuter is equilivent to a Public Prosecuter in the US.

Still the fact remains if the situation was exactly the same but it was just an everyday civilian who shot the 'raker' (BTW, as Red will tell you, I have experiance of being a raker); he would have been charged &amp; it would have been up to the 'public prosecuter' to make a case of it, &amp; then for the jury to decide.

Seeing as cops are equal to everyone else, as far as the law is concerned, then why should they be treated any differently?

Now if cops don't like being treated the same as everyone else, they can always resign, there's always more people applying to be cops than positions avaliable.

 

[ArkAoss]

i agree, he screwed up, to a court of law he should go any court, but this is america, and the outcome will be american so it could go good it could go bad,

 

[ArkAoss]

has any one seen any recent news updates on this story??? could ya post links for us??