Afghan Militants Intrude Pakistan and kill 27 troop

[Lemon law]

Busydude says, "India will never, I mean never.. have friendly ties with Pakistan in foreseeable future."

Never say never, simply make it happen. Already India ignores one wise solution to their energy needs, namely a natural gas pipeline from Iran to India. That gasp would have to go through both Afghanistan and Pakistan, another reason to patch up differences. War and hostility is always wasteful, co -operation is always better.

 

[Kadarin]

Like we needed even more fuckedupness in Pakistan, this video hit the front page of CNN.com:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/06/10/black.pakistan.shooting.anger.cnn?hpt=hp_c2

Security forces shoot an unarmed teen, and leave him to die.

 

[routan]

School textbooks don't even malign Pakistan FFS.. let alone Mughals. I don't even remember reading a single paragraph being critical of Jinnah. Books we read in school tend to shy away from controversy as much as possible.. exact opposite of what you think.

http://www.cbse.nic.in/secondary_sch_curr_vol1_2011-2009.pdf

Grades 9 and 10.. pages 76 thru 90.

8th grade: http://www.cbseviii.com/ncert/syllabus



Things have been updated to reflect changes, but the gist remains the same.

In that case, what exactly is your point? I disagreed with a poster who suggested that the Hindus were slaves under the Mughal rulers. Do you have the same mindset? If so, is that because of the textbooks from your schooling system? If not, then I dont understand why you are arguing with me?

 

[routan]

Like we needed even more fuckedupness in Pakistan, this video hit the front page of CNN.com:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/06/10/black.pakistan.shooting.anger.cnn?hpt=hp_c2

Security forces shoot an unarmed teen, and leave him to die.

While this act is atrocious, beyond words, I dont understand why you would term that as "fuckedupness".

Police brutality is widespread and common on our streets. Is that also "fuckedupness"? If so, I agree with your sentiment. If not, then you're bias is obviously based on some other underlying bigoted views.

 

[davmat787]

Busydude says, "India will never, I mean never.. have friendly ties with Pakistan in foreseeable future."

Never say never, simply make it happen. Already India ignores one wise solution to their energy needs, namely a natural gas pipeline from Iran to India. That gasp would have to go through both Afghanistan and Pakistan, another reason to patch up differences. War and hostility is always wasteful, co -operation is always better.

What would be the uptime on this pipeline going through those two 'stans to India? It seems like some group or another would always see fit to blow it up. Pipelines through areas as remote as those are too unsecurable I would wager. The dynamics of all the countries you listed would have to change so completely it probably isn't a realistic option this century.

Would be a great sign of the times however, no doubt about that.

 

[routan]

I don't think it is possible in the normal sense of the word. Of course you could open your search criteria up to include a lot of false positives (kind of like nuking a country to destroy its schools). Other than that, how would it be possible?

Well, so in that case, then perhaps it not possible for Pakistan to get rid of all Al Qaeda elements in the normal sense of the word either.

Either way, I am in agreement.

 

[routan]

I'm the same person you responded to before. And I guess I should clear up by what I meant by 'problem':

It's not a real logistical problem to find these Millions of illegals, nor ship them back to Mexico.

It would be a problem socially, because internally you'd have the businesspeople (mostly right) going to the political folks saying, WTF, don't rock the boat, we've got slave labor going on here, and senseamp needs his lettuce .10c cheaper. On the other side, you'd have White Guilter's and/or Bleeding Hearts (left) having cry in's, whine in's, demonstrations walking hand in hand with illegal mothers holding their crying kids, and The Media eating it up. Politicians simply can't handle doing the right thing in those social circumstances, and would cave on the roundup and deportation of those Millions of illegals, plus, would cave on actually locking down the border (first time Border Patrol/US Military killed an illegal invader, The Media would make a field day out of it, further inciting Bleeding Hearts/White Guilter's).

Pakistan has largely the same problem, except a tougher geographical time on the lockdown due to terrain...but, it could be done if they wanted to: They simply don't politically, due to the social dynamics of their public, and internally in their political, military, and intelligence circles.

Chuck

I still dont follow. You think Pakistan has the same problem as the United States whereby the public/military/intelligence circle/political setup are ambivalent to the threat of Al Qaeda/militants/terrorists who blow up Navy aircrafts, suicide bomb civilians, kill soldiers, bring down entire hotels?

You think they DONT want to act against this threat? They can but choose not to?

Really?

I'd really like some of what you're smoking

 

[The Green Bean]

Like we needed even more fuckedupness in Pakistan, this video hit the front page of CNN.com:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/06/10/black.pakistan.shooting.anger.cnn?hpt=hp_c2

Security forces shoot an unarmed teen, and leave him to die.

He was not unarmed when the caught him. He was using a "fake" gun to rob them. Americans shouldn't speak. They support extra-judicial killings like the OBL murder.

 

[Red Dawn]

He was not unarmed when the caught him. He was using a "fake" gun to rob them. Americans shouldn't speak. They support extra-judicial killings like the OBL murder.

Still pissed we killed your hero it seems

 

[chucky2]

I still dont follow. You think Pakistan has the same problem as the United States whereby the public/military/intelligence circle/political setup are ambivalent to the threat of Al Qaeda/militants/terrorists who blow up Navy aircrafts, suicide bomb civilians, kill soldiers, bring down entire hotels?

You think they DONT want to act against this threat? They can but choose not to?

I think unacceptably large %'s of those groups have sympathies towards the Taliban/AQ (just like we've got unacceptable sympathies here for the illegal invaders) and have no problem with those groups hanging around in Pakistan, recruiting in Pakistan, regrouping in Pakistan, etc. and then going over to Afghanistan/India to cause problems. When those same groups cause problems in Pakistan, such as what you just mentioned, then likely significant %'s of that sympathetic % are not in favor (of course), but still you still have significant %'s of that % that are OK with the act to further whatever F'd up agenda they want to see pushed/implemented/whatever. It's the same as a libtard US poster here loving illegal immigration so his lettuce can be .10c cheaper. No different is the ISI officer who knows there is Taliban/AQ but ignores them because he hates the Great Satan and knows the Taliban/AQ are combating the Great Satan over in Afghanistan.

Really?

Really.

I'd really like some of what you're smoking

I don't partake. Try and score some Hopium and Changium though, I hear it's quite powerful, really F's up your mind though... :thumbsup:

Chuck

 

[The Green Bean]

Still pissed we killed your hero it seems

No. How is the murder of OBL different from this police video? According the reports OBL was not armed. How can you justify one while condemning the other. Hypocrisy at its worst.

 

[chucky2]

OBL was a known POS, this guy much less so?

 

[The Green Bean]

OBL was a known POS, this guy much less so?

Weak defence.

 

[Lemon law]

With drones and many typical US and Nato tactic, the USA and Nato use practices that would be clearly illegal in England or the United States.

Look at all the hue and cry, and for that matter the successful lawsuits when Federal Jack Booted thugs shot randy Weavers wife.

As Nato intel, not always very good, will peg a missile at a house, not knowing how many innocent people are inside. If we tried that in this country, we would overthrow the government if need be to stop it. But its SOP in Pakistan and Afghanistan, which is why the hearts and minds of ordinary civilians we need to win instead turn into US and Nato hatreds.

But Karazai and Zendari don't have the cred to say no to Nato. And Nato will fail to understand until they get stronger leaders who one day say and mean, Yankee go home.

Meanwhile Obama has not learned to spell counterproductive.

 

[chucky2]

Weak defence.

What's 'weak' about it? There's a known monster that knowingly and purposefully OK'd the direct murder of thousands of civillians (thankfully it was less than he/they theorized), the other is some teen (who could be a [/I]small time scumbag).

You're not trying to equate the two as equal circumstances, are you?

 

[chucky2]

With drones and many typical US and Nato tactic, the USA and Nato use practices that would be clearly illegal in England or the United States.

Look at all the hue and cry, and for that matter the successful lawsuits when Federal Jack Booted thugs shot randy Weavers wife.

As Nato intel, not always very good, will peg a missile at a house, not knowing how many innocent people are inside. If we tried that in this country, we would overthrow the government if need be to stop it. But its SOP in Pakistan and Afghanistan, which is why the hearts and minds of ordinary civilians we need to win instead turn into US and Nato hatreds.

But Karazai and Zendari don't have the cred to say no to Nato. And Nato will fail to understand until they get stronger leaders who one day say and mean, Yankee go home.

Meanwhile Obama has not learned to spell counterproductive.

So you'd be OK if O'Bummer said that we were sending 500k troops to Yemen? Tell the truth now...

 

[Lemon law]

So you'd be OK if O'Bummer said that we were sending 500k troops to Yemen? Tell the truth now...

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That would partly be contingent on the UN and Saudi Arabia requesting help to stop a full scale civil war that has not yet erupted. I would say more US air and intel support in that event, as for any US ground troops I would say nyet. Yemen is more a Saudi problem.

 

[chucky2]

But the point of the UN mission was to stop 'civilian' casualties. If the only way to guarantee that was to inject 500k US troops into the country, you're telling me you'd want to see all those Yemenese civilians killed? What about their children?

 

[cirrrocco]

Busydude says, "India will never, I mean never.. have friendly ties with Pakistan in foreseeable future."

Never say never, simply make it happen. Already India ignores one wise solution to their energy needs, namely a natural gas pipeline from Iran to India. That gasp would have to go through both Afghanistan and Pakistan, another reason to patch up differences. War and hostility is always wasteful, co -operation is always better.

India is not as foolish as the US in having its energy or logistics train run through Pakistan. The US is the tail and Pakistan is the head. Look at how Pakistan treats your logistics train like shit.

Indians know the Pakistanis very well. Richard Clarke knows Pakistan pretty well as well
Check his interview with Bill Maher, he knows exactly what the Pakistani establishment is all about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOTF6_v0-iA

check starting from 3:20

 

[busydude]

War and hostility is always wasteful, co -operation is always better.

Yup, I agree.. but it is just not about India.. Pakistan is not helping ease the tension in the sub continent at all. IMO, Pakistan will gain a lot when there is peace in that region.. much more than India.

In that case, what exactly is your point? I disagreed with a poster who suggested that the Hindus were slaves under the Mughal rulers. Do you have the same mindset? If so, is that because of the textbooks from your schooling system? If not, then I dont understand why you are arguing with me?

You said Indian government is maligning Mughals.. I rebutted saying it is not true. Indian government.. and its people consider Mughals to be a part of our history. I asked you about Auragazeb because he was known to be oppressive when compared to his predecessors.. he tried to implement sharia law and destroyed churches, temples and everything which is not deemed to be "Islamic."

Having Hindus in high ranking positions does not mean everything was well and good..especially when it comes to their governance. Even East India company employed a lot of Indians. People of other religions were made to be paid much higher taxes.. they were just basically living a second rate life in their own land.

 

[Kadarin]

He was not unarmed when the caught him. He was using a "fake" gun to rob them. Americans shouldn't speak. They support extra-judicial killings like the OBL murder.

HELL FUCKING YES I support shooting OBL in the face.

 

[cirrrocco]

HELL FUCKING YES I support shooting OBL in the face.

Then cover his body in pig fat and drop it in Saudi Arabia, on the head of the biggest wahhabi supporter in the planet.

 

[werepossum]

With drones and many typical US and Nato tactic, the USA and Nato use practices that would be clearly illegal in England or the United States.

Look at all the hue and cry, and for that matter the successful lawsuits when Federal Jack Booted thugs shot randy Weavers wife.

As Nato intel, not always very good, will peg a missile at a house, not knowing how many innocent people are inside. If we tried that in this country, we would overthrow the government if need be to stop it. But its SOP in Pakistan and Afghanistan, which is why the hearts and minds of ordinary civilians we need to win instead turn into US and Nato hatreds.

But Karazai and Zendari don't have the cred to say no to Nato. And Nato will fail to understand until they get stronger leaders who one day say and mean, Yankee go home.

Meanwhile Obama has not learned to spell counterproductive.

How is this counterproductive?
1. We want the bad guys dead.
2. We want our troops back home as soon as is practical.

Firing missiles at the bad guys seems to accomplish both of these things, killing the bad guys (and their little-bad-guys-in-training and their little-bad-guys-in-training breeders, also useful things) as well as motivating Afghanistan and Pakistan to step up so that we don't continue raining missiles on their citizens. Considering that there is zero chance that either nation will ever like us, seems like a win-win policy to me.

Too often people forget that our mission is NOT to make them like us, but merely to make them stop supporting people who attack us.

 

[Lemon law]

How is this counterproductive?
1. We want the bad guys dead.
2. We want our troops back home as soon as is practical.

Firing missiles at the bad guys seems to accomplish both of these things, killing the bad guys (and their little-bad-guys-in-training and their little-bad-guys-in-training breeders, also useful things) as well as motivating Afghanistan and Pakistan to step up so that we don't continue raining missiles on their citizens. Considering that there is zero chance that either nation will ever like us, seems like a win-win policy to me.

Too often people forget that our mission is NOT to make them like us, but merely to make them stop supporting people who attack us.

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Get em a clue werepossim, as Afghanistan has now become the longest running war in US history. Is it working yet?

Well if you can't say yes, you just answered your own question.

Now the latest PR line is that Al-Quida morale has never been lower, but polls also show US troop morale has never been lower either. As the USA somehow gets a second prize in a beauty contest with the Taliban.

We killed some 7 % of the Vietnamese people, during our war there, but we must not have killed enough because we lost.

 

[werepossum]

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Get em a clue werepossim, as Afghanistan has now become the longest running war in US history. Is it working yet?

Well if you can't say yes, you just answered your own question.

Now the latest PR line is that Al-Quida morale has never been lower, but polls also show US troop morale has never been lower either. As the USA somehow gets a second prize in a beauty contest with the Taliban.

We killed some 7 % of the Vietnamese people, during our war there, but we must not have killed enough because we lost.

Hmm, number of significant al Qaeda attacks on America since the Afghan war started . . . Carry the zero . . .

Yup, it's working just fine.