About this immigrant rally during shutdown

[xBiffx]

Its pretty far-fetched to assume it has anything to do with the White House other than a general directive to get costs to a certain level required by projected deficits.

One thing is for sure, the Forest service is responsible for managing forest lands; and if they feel that traffic or civilians using forest assets, including roads, cannot be properly managed withi their new budget, that's the way it goes. And he ought to be blaming John Boehner for refusing to allow a vote on the shutdown, not the White House.

Cause we all know that closing parking lots and scenic overlooks saves money.

Get real. Even if there wasn't a specific directive for all of this nonsense, the White House sure isn't trying to stop any of it. You Obama defenders are completely fricken nuts. I'll love it when the shoe is on the other foot and you are screaming bloody murder.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I see the so-called non-partisan accepts anonymous quotes from right wing publications uncritically, and doesn't even bother to notice that it's being passed off as another quote when its the same one posted twice already. There's nothing lamer than "me tooing" anything and everything that fits with your pre-conceived bias. "True colors" indeed.

I never said I was nonpartisan...that's all you. I'm not into labeling myself in such a way other than the labels of 'fiscally conservative' and 'socially liberal/moderate' depending on the issue. You assume a hell of a lot about me personally and then have the audacity to criticize me for not performing due diligence regarding a quote that was posted twice that apparently came from the same source. Really? Where is your due diligence? Where have I ever said I was non-partisan? Let's do talk about true colors and preconceived bias.

Anyway, the evidence keeps mounting that the park service is making unnecessary "hardships" that are completely unrelated to lack of funding. We also continue to hear stories that they are being directed to do so. This may be completly acceptable in your world...but it's an unacceptable abuse of power in my world. The buck stops with Obama regardless whether he was directly responsible or not as he could put a stop to the bullshit in a heartbeat if he so desired.

Since Obama has effectively condoned the practice of willfully inconveniencing the public and exaggerating the "slimdown"...it's pretty much a given that he's doing it to politically smear Republicans in order to sway public opinion against them. If this is the case (which it certainly appears to be) then it becomes painfully obvious that he places his political interests above the interests of those he serves. And this is supposed to be my President?

 

[Tom]

Cause we all know that closing parking lots and scenic overlooks saves money.

Get real. Even if there wasn't a specific directive for all of this nonsense, the White House sure isn't trying to stop any of it. You Obama defenders are completely fricken nuts. I'll love it when the shoe is on the other foot and you are screaming bloody murder.

I'm just as confident the White House is doing what it can to mitigate the effects of the shutdown on people as you are they're out to get you.

And I'm not going to take a stupid stance that the Republicans want to hurt the people either, which would be equivalent to your ridiculous claim. They, like everyone, don't have a grasp on the extent of the services our government provides, rather they probably think the only thing the government does is provide phones and food to lazy people.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I'm just as confident the White House is doing what it can to mitigate the effects of the shutdown on people as you are they're out to get you.

If this is the case, why isn't Obama pressuring Senate leadership to pass all the clean funding bills the House has sent to them which mitigate many of the adverse affects of the shutdown?

 

[Tom]

I never said I was nonpartisan...that's all you. I'm not into labeling myself in such a way other than the labels of 'fiscally conservative' and 'socially liberal/moderate' depending on the issue. You assume a hell of a lot about me personally and then have the audacity to criticize me for not performing due diligence regarding a quote that was posted twice that apparently came from the same source. Really? Where is your due diligence? Where have I ever said I was non-partisan? Let's do talk about true colors and preconceived bias.

Anyway, the evidence keeps mounting that the park service is making unnecessary "hardships" that are completely unrelated to lack of funding. We also continue to hear stories that they are being directed to do so. This may be completly acceptable in your world...but it's an unacceptable abuse of power in my world. The buck stops with Obama regardless whether he was directly responsible or not as he could put a stop to the bullshit in a heartbeat if he so desired.

Since Obama has effectively condoned the practice of willfully inconveniencing the public and exaggerating the "slimdown"...it's pretty much a given that he's doing it to politically smear Republicans in order to sway public opinion against them. If this is the case (which it certainly appears to be) then it becomes obvious that he places his political interests above the interests of those he serves. And this is supposed to be my President?

Actually it doesn't appear to be at all.

The only thing there's evidence of is the government doesn't waste a lot of resources planning to be shutdown, since there's no good reason for them to do so. So when some jackasses don't do their job, provide the funds to pay for the government that they voted for, there's a lot of chaos about what to do to protect the assets of the American people and prioritize the spending they think will do the best job in the circumstances.

Some guy keeping a campground open or a cafe on the Blue Ridge Hwy aren't at the top of the list. But when attention is drawn to them, like the WW2 vet memorial guys, the White House, or his cabinet people, have acted to take care of it.

So reality is the opposite of what is often "reported".

 

[Tom]

I've searched a little and there are reports coming in from all over the country. There are even reports of people who have homes on federal lands being forced to evacuate in 24 hrs. (You might ask why a private home would be on federal lands; well we've had people living in the backwoods for hundreds of years. When the govt took the land for a national park etc they were grandfathered in.)

Over where I'm at when the park official was asked why they were shutting down the business he said the order came from Washington DC.

As far as how broadly this shutdown of private businesses/homes were someone is going to have to do an investigation. A Congressional committee has started doing just that.

Fern

Do you understand what shutdown means ? There are good reasons why private businesses and homes would need to be closed that have nothing to do with some dastardly plot.

People damage things. If you want to maintain a park, or any asset, with an absolute minimum of cost the only way to do so is to keep people out and guard the perimeter.

That is basic common sense.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Do you understand what shutdown means ? There are good reasons why private businesses and homes would need to be closed that have nothing to do with some dastardly plot.

People damage things. If you want to maintain a park, or any asset, with an absolute minimum of cost the only way to do so is to keep people out and guard the perimeter.

That is basic common sense.

If this is truly the case, then why weren't these businesses and homes closed during the 1995-96 shutdown?

 

[Tom]

If this is truly the case, then why weren't these businesses and homes closed during the 1995-96 shutdown?

I don't know that they weren't. Or if they weren't the details of why.

I don't know that they're closed this time either.

It isn't really relevant to what I said which is whether there's a logical common sense reason for an action versus jumping to a conclusion its being done for some evil purpose.

I know there are people who think our President is Satan incarnate, but he isn't.

Neither is John Boehner or Mr. Cruz.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I don't know that they weren't. Or if they weren't the details of why.

I don't know that they're closed this time either.

It isn't really relevant to what I said which is whether there's a logical common sense reason for an action versus jumping to a conclusion its being done for some evil purpose.

I know there are people who think our President is Satan incarnate, but he isn't.

Neither is John Boehner or Mr. Cruz.

You're quite the apologist...still waiting for your response to Post #79.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Mall,_District_of_Columbia



"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

A proclamation by the pigs who control the government in the novel Animal Farm, by George Orwell. The sentence is a comment on the hypocrisy of governments that proclaim the absolute equality of their citizens but give power and privileges to a small elite. Which is the type of government that Shadow9 heartily approves of.

:thumbsup:

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The Peaks of Otter Lodge (hotel and restaurant) is privately owned and located on the Blue Ridge Parkway (Federal Highway) and it has been shutdown due to the closure of the Parkway.

http://www.peaksofotter.com/Government-Shutdown-Information.aspx



Right now is the peak season for leaves to change and when the hotel makes it's most income for the year.

I just found out the Blue Ridge Parkway was not closed, just the road to the Lodge/Restaurant. The Restaurant/Lodge parking lot is the only thing on the road.

http://www.blueridgeparkway.org/v.php?pg=25

The 469-mile Blue Ridge Parkway remains OPEN to traffic despite a government shutdown of federal agencies. However, facilities and services including all visitor centers, lodging, camping, interpretive services and restrooms along the Blue Ridge Parkway and other national park areas will remain closed during this time.

 

[woolfe9998]

I never said I was nonpartisan...that's all you. I'm not into labeling myself in such a way other than the labels of 'fiscally conservative' and 'socially liberal/moderate' depending on the issue. You assume a hell of a lot about me personally and then have the audacity to criticize me for not performing due diligence regarding a quote that was posted twice that apparently came from the same source. Really? Where is your due diligence? Where have I ever said I was non-partisan? Let's do talk about true colors and preconceived bias.

Anyway, the evidence keeps mounting that the park service is making unnecessary "hardships" that are completely unrelated to lack of funding. We also continue to hear stories that they are being directed to do so. This may be completly acceptable in your world...but it's an unacceptable abuse of power in my world. The buck stops with Obama regardless whether he was directly responsible or not as he could put a stop to the bullshit in a heartbeat if he so desired.

Since Obama has effectively condoned the practice of willfully inconveniencing the public and exaggerating the "slimdown"...it's pretty much a given that he's doing it to politically smear Republicans in order to sway public opinion against them. If this is the case (which it certainly appears to be) then it becomes painfully obvious that he places his political interests above the interests of those he serves. And this is supposed to be my President?

We "continue to hear stories that they are being directed to do so?" What we have is one anonymous quote whose point source appears to be the Washington Times.

As to the anecdotes linked here, I don't think they support your conclusions yet. Not without knowing the true scale of this.

 

[monovillage]

We "continue to hear stories that they are being directed to do so?" What we have is one anonymous quote whose point source appears to be the Washington Times.

As to the anecdotes linked here, I don't think they support your conclusions yet. Not without knowing the true scale of this.

Embarrassingly disingenuous.

 

[woolfe9998]

Embarrassingly disingenuous.

Please explain how not wanting to rely on anecdotes to prove a trend about something going on all over the country is being disingenuous.

Fern said earlier that there is going to be some kind of Congressional investigation of this. I think that's great. I'll wait to see what comes out of that.

 

[werepossum]

I see the so-called non-partisan accepts anonymous quotes from right wing publications uncritically, and doesn't even bother to notice that it's being passed off as another quote when its the same one posted twice already. There's nothing lamer than "me tooing" anything and everything that fits with your pre-conceived bias. "True colors" indeed.

That's the problem with any anonymous quote - including when liberal news outlets have anonymous quotes from "Senate Republicans" agreeing with the Democrats.

I disagree.
http://marathonpundit.blogspot.ca/2013/10/spitehouse-national-park-goons-remove.html

Politicization of all government. Obama and the Dems have a position in this argument, and they are having all of government make things as unpleasant as possible on everyone outside of government to strengthen that position.

Cause we all know that closing parking lots and scenic overlooks saves money.

Get real. Even if there wasn't a specific directive for all of this nonsense, the White House sure isn't trying to stop any of it. You Obama defenders are completely fricken nuts. I'll love it when the shoe is on the other foot and you are screaming bloody murder.

Well said.

 

[Fern]

Of course there is. If the park is closed. The park is closed to save money which means there's not enough human resources to protect and manage the assets except by restricting access to the assets.

Do you understand what shutdown means ? There are good reasons why private businesses and homes would need to be closed that have nothing to do with some dastardly plot.

People damage things. If you want to maintain a park, or any asset, with an absolute minimum of cost the only way to do so is to keep people out and guard the perimeter.

That is basic common sense.

Uh, no Tom.

The instances people are complaining about are much different than you seem to understand.

Yes, if the park itself is closed it's obvious the private businesses would close because no one could access the business.

The Blue Ridge Parkway is NOT closed. It's basically a road running along the top of the Blue Ridge (Appalachian) mountains. So people had unfettered access to the road and therefore the Inn. The rangers came to the Inn itself and physically blocked their parking lot so people couldn't eat there etc. There was no money saved, in fact that measure COST extra money.

Likewise with numerous other private businesses around the country.

And there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to throw people out of their private homes. I find it unbelievable you even think that's acceptable.

Fern

 

[Tom]

Uh, no Tom.

The instances people are complaining about are much different than you seem to understand.

Yes, if the park itself is closed it's obvious the private businesses would close because no one could access the business.

The Blue Ridge Parkway is NOT closed. It's basically a road running along the top of the Blue Ridge (Appalachian) mountains. So people had unfettered access to the road and therefore the Inn. The rangers came to the Inn itself and physically blocked their parking lot so people couldn't eat there etc. There was no money saved, in fact that measure COST extra money.

Likewise with numerous other private businesses around the country.

And there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to throw people out of their private homes. I find it unbelievable you even think that's acceptable.

Fern

Like I said, the evidence is not a lot of resources have been spent planning for a shutdown. And that corrections have been made.

So, what's the point ?

As far as private homes in National parks. There are circumstances where the presence of people endangers the park assets, and a lack of resources means possibly a lack of law enforcement, fire protection, etc.

If a private residence has a kitchen fire which burns down Yellowstone its the same thing as a park guest at a campfire doing the same thing.

 

[Tom]

If this is the case, why isn't Obama pressuring Senate leadership to pass all the clean funding bills the House has sent to them which mitigate many of the adverse affects of the shutdown?

A couple of good reasons.

1. There's all kinds of people being hurt by the shutdown, some of them not the darlings of Fox News or their ilk.

Its not right to pick and choose winners and losers based on who can be an embarrassment to the President.

Frankly, these Bills are more disgusting than the shutdown itself.

2. It undermines the checks and balances that our Constitution is based on. A minority in the House is attempting to control the government by essentially line item vetoing the laws they don't like.

 

[Fern]

Like I said, the evidence is not a lot of resources have been spent planning for a shutdown. And that corrections have been made.

So, what's the point ?

I'd say it's quite to the contrary.

The shutting down of private businesses and evacuating people from their homes is unprecedented. I.e., somebody danged sure planned it since it's new.

As far as private homes in National parks. There are circumstances where the presence of people endangers the park assets, and a lack of resources means possibly a lack of law enforcement, fire protection, etc.

If a private residence has a kitchen fire which burns down Yellowstone its the same thing as a park guest at a campfire doing the same thing.

Nope.

There is a reason they haven't been evacuated before: It's completely unnecessary.

First, their home fires would be handled by the relevant country Fire Dept. Second, Dept of the Interior functions that are considered essential remain operating; this means any federal wildfire fighting teams. You can confirm that by clicking the link below and selecting "National Park Service". BTW, much evidence of pre-planning for the shutdown can be found there too.

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/index.cfm

Fern

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Soon, Tom, and Woolfe9998 will be wearing brown shirts with an arm band.
Be afraid America, be very afraid. :'(

 

[werepossum]

A couple of good reasons.

1. There's all kinds of people being hurt by the shutdown, some of them not the darlings of Fox News or their ilk.

Its not right to pick and choose winners and losers based on who can be an embarrassment to the President.

Frankly, these Bills are more disgusting than the shutdown itself.

2. It undermines the checks and balances that our Constitution is based on. A minority in the House is attempting to control the government by essentially line item vetoing the laws they don't like.

Seriously? Have we now reached the point where the left is going to pretend that we've always funded government with eternal Continuing Resolutions and passing bills funding specific legitimate government functions is some sort of disgusting aberration? Is the highest purpose of our government now not "hurting" people by not guaranteeing them jobs?

Personally I think we should return to the days of individual appropriations bills. These omnibus bills are merely tacit agreement that government has grown too large to effectively manage.

Soon, Tom, and Woolfe9998 will be wearing brown shirts with an arm band.
Be afraid America, be very afraid. :'(

Tom does seem to be on his way to being a "good German", but personally I found Wolfe's points to be persuasive. An anonymous quote is of very little value; an anonymous quote supposedly emanating from multiple places is evidence of dishonesty or incompetency. I have no doubt that Obama is making this as painful as possible for as many people as possible for fear the public might otherwise not notice it, but that doesn't excuse right wing media for blatant dishonesty.

 

[Tom]

I'd say it's quite to the contrary.

The shutting down of private businesses and evacuating people from their homes is unprecedented. I.e., somebody danged sure planned it since it's new.



Nope.

There is a reason they haven't been evacuated before: It's completely unnecessary.

First, their home fires would be handled by the relevant country Fire Dept. Second, Dept of the Interior functions that are considered essential remain operating; this means any federal wildfire fighting teams. You can confirm that by clicking the link below and selecting "National Park Service". BTW, much evidence of pre-planning for the shutdown can be found there too.

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/index.cfm

Fern

Where I live the county fire dept. lets houses burn to the ground if fees aren't paid. In advance.

I don't really know what you're arguing about. You keep talking about instances, I'm talking about the overall.

The USA is MASSIVE. The scale of government operations is mind boggling.(so is the scale of private enterprise) So of course in trying to manage a drastic cost reduction there are going to be exceptions and mistakes.

The issue is do the mistakes mean something evil is happening, or just that the scope of the endeavor is hard to deal with, particularly when HUGE numbers of people are already gone from their desks.

 

[Tom]

Seriously? Have we now reached the point where the left is going to pretend that we've always funded government with eternal Continuing Resolutions and passing bills funding specific legitimate government functions is some sort of disgusting aberration? Is the highest purpose of our government now not "hurting" people by not guaranteeing them jobs?

Personally I think we should return to the days of individual appropriations bills. These omnibus bills are merely tacit agreement that government has grown too large to effectively manage.


Tom does seem to be on his way to being a "good German", but personally I found Wolfe's points to be persuasive. An anonymous quote is of very little value; an anonymous quote supposedly emanating from multiple places is evidence of dishonesty or incompetency. I have no doubt that Obama is making this as painful as possible for as many people as possible for fear the public might otherwise not notice it, but that doesn't excuse right wing media for blatant dishonesty.

The Senate and the President are just as "legitimate" as the House.

The reason these Bills are disgusting is they are completely political. They are the same as the 40 votes to repeal Obamacare. The people passing them know they are nothing but a political gesture.

And btw, I also think real budgets should be passed as well as real appropriations Bills. But that can't happen as long as a minority keeps trying to force its agenda on the majority.