About this immigrant rally during shutdown

[Fern]

Yes, we disagree about the value of a single anonymous source cited in a right wing publication. If you think that makes your case, knock yourself out.

Taken in conjunction with unprecedented forced closures around the country, yes, I think that bit is of value. Were it a lone single piece of evidence I would not attribute as much to it as it would be uncorroborated.

Fern

 

[woolfe9998]

You're being embarrassingly disingenuous Woolfe, there's multiple sources to all those stories if you just bother to look for them.

I'm not being disingenuous. I asked a question. Three or five businesses being closed in various locales may be due to factors which are local, or errors made in particular cases. Every single business on federal lands being closed is another matter. I asked the question because I really have no idea as to the scale of this. I am wary, as always, of anecdotes.

 

[woolfe9998]

Closing one park to veterans, while opening another to an illegal immigrant rally is not acceptable.

You may argue the protest should have been allowed on freedom of speech.

I argue the only reason why the protestors can march is because of the veterans, and those that gave their lives in defense of this nation.

What the park service did is morally wrong. The way the veterans have been treated, all the way around, from closing parks, to stopping benefits, is wrong.

The national is being ran by a morally and financially bankrupt government.

Whether a given monument should be closed or not is one issue. Maybe none of the veterans monuments should have been closed out of sensitivity to veterans. However, you made an argument that this was a double standard and I think that is totally wrong because they should make exceptions when it's a First Amendment right at stake. If there's a problem here it's that war memorials shouldn't be closed at all, not that an exception is made to a particular closure for First Amendment reasons. My only point here is that I disagree that it's a double standard.

So far as the benefit checks are concerned, I'm pretty sure the administration can't do anything about that. Unless Congress acts, which it may very well as there is a bill being bandied about, the VA money runs out in about a week.

 

[Fern]

I'm not being disingenuous. I asked a question. Three or five businesses being closed in various locales may be due to factors which are local, or errors made in particular cases. Every single business on federal lands being closed is another matter. I asked the question because I really have no idea as to the scale of this. I am wary, as always, of anecdotes.

I've searched a little and there are reports coming in from all over the country. There are even reports of people who have homes on federal lands being forced to evacuate in 24 hrs. (You might ask why a private home would be on federal lands; well we've had people living in the backwoods for hundreds of years. When the govt took the land for a national park etc they were grandfathered in.)

Over where I'm at when the park official was asked why they were shutting down the business he said the order came from Washington DC.

As far as how broadly this shutdown of private businesses/homes were someone is going to have to do an investigation. A Congressional committee has started doing just that.

Fern

 

[OrByte]

Yes there are reports of businesses looking for statute/regulation/loopholes that would permit reopening and letting people back in to get paid to do their jobs.

Its not a matter of businesses groveling at the feet of the Administration begging to be let open. Some operations (public & private) are doing their due diligence to make sure the shutdown is strategic.

As it should be.

anything else is irresponsible.

 

[woolfe9998]

I've searched a little and there are reports coming in from all over the country. There are even reports of people who have homes on federal lands being forced to evacuate in 24 hrs. (You might ask why a private home would be on federal lands; well we've had people living in the backwoods for hundreds of years. When the govt took the land for a national park etc they were grandfathered in.)

Over where I'm at when the park official was asked why they were shutting down the business he said the order came from Washington DC.

As far as how broadly this shutdown of private businesses/homes were someone is going to have to do an investigation. A Congressional committee has started doing just that.

Fern

Good. I'll wait for whatever information comes out of an investigation. Until then, these anecdotes are interesting to follow but I'm not going to form any sweeping conclusions from them. You guys can draw broad conclusions from anecdotes well enough on your own.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Good. I'll wait for whatever information comes out of an investigation. Until then, these anecdotes are interesting to follow but I'm not going to form any sweeping conclusions from them. You guys can draw broad conclusions from anecdotes well enough on your own.

The Peaks of Otter Lodge (hotel and restaurant) is privately owned and located on the Blue Ridge Parkway (Federal Highway) and it has been shutdown due to the closure of the Parkway.

http://www.peaksofotter.com/Government-Shutdown-Information.aspx

Government Shutdown Information

Updated at 11:15 a.m. EDT on Monday, Oct. 7, 2013

Peaks of Otter Lodge is currently closed. We are monitoring the government shutdown and are working closely with the National Park Service to ensure we have the most current information available about the closures. We will be contacting our lodging guests and providing a refund if a guest is not able to change his or her reservation.

We remain optimistic that Congress will reach an agreement to minimize the government shutdown, and we thank you for your patience. For additional information, please visit http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/index.cfm.

We are very sorry for this inconvenience and look forward to reopening the lodge as soon as possible.

Right now is the peak season for leaves to change and when the hotel makes it's most income for the year.

 

[Texashiker]

As to why the National Mall was open for an immigration protest, presumably it is because it's a protected first amendment activity and they got a permit.

I was thinking about your comments last night and this morning.

1 - The veterans at the new york monument stayed past closing time and were arrested.

The park was closed, what they were doing was protected free speech, so therefor the park should have remained open.

2 - We do not need permits to exercise freedom of speech.

3 - We do not need permits to peacefully assemble.

 

[Smoblikat]

I think it is funny how the progressive liberals love obama, until his true colors come out.

Then it is "shh, be quiet and let this blow over."

Next week they will be back singing praises to him again.

Are they so blind they can not see the president hates the United States and has utter contempt for our armed forces? Or they just dont care?

Something is wrong when veterans are blocked, but pro amnesty for illegals can rally.

They are blind, and because they cannot see any problems, they dont care about them.

 

[piasabird]

Some Democratic house members were also arrested at the illegal rally holding a civil disobedience protest!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57606606/house-democrats-arrested-during-immigration-protest/

 

[Fern]

Another park ranger reporting that they've been told to make things as difficult as possible for people.

The Park Service appears to be closing streets on mere whim and caprice. The rangers even closed the parking lot at Mount Vernon, where the plantation home of George Washington is a favorite tourist destination. That was after they barred the new World War II Memorial on the Mall to veterans of World War II. But the government does not own Mount Vernon; it is privately owned by the Mount Vernon Ladies' Association. The ladies bought it years ago to preserve it as a national memorial. The feds closed access to the parking lots this week, even though the lots are jointly owned with the Mount Vernon ladies. The rangers are from the government, and they’re only here to help.

“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/3/pruden-the-cheap-tricks-of-the-game/

Fern

 

[Angry Irishman]

I thought this was funny or shameful or just typical politics displayed from both sides:

Filmmaker Dennis Michael Lynch captured Pelosi making her way into the immigration rally and asked if she planned on going to the still-closed World War II memorial across the mall.
“I go all the time,” Pelosi, D-San Francisco, responded (she probably doesn’t). “I don’t go to grandstand.”
On the rally stage, Pelosi made matters worse — by grandstanding.
“I want to … thank the president for enabling us to gather here, and also thank the president the veterans were able to gather at the World War II memorial.”
So we need to thank the president that veterans were able to gather at the memorial they fought for? And it still remains closed to American citizens who aren’t World War II veterans while immigrants – legal and illegal – are granted special permission to gather nearby because they’re in the president’s favor?

Yea, it's from Fox.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFEU_25nId4

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Another park ranger reporting that they've been told to make things as difficult as possible for people.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/3/pruden-the-cheap-tricks-of-the-game/

Fern

True colors. When will people wake up and realize just how perverse and depraved our government has become under Obama?

 

[monovillage]

True colors. When will people wake up and realize just how perverse and depraved our government has become under Obama?

The National Park Service and the rangers will never recover the respect and good will they had from a majority of Americans after these episodes.

 

[woolfe9998]

Another park ranger reporting that they've been told to make things as difficult as possible for people.



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/3/pruden-the-cheap-tricks-of-the-game/

Fern

Please look at your post #45 and ask yourself how TWO anonymous sources said the exact same thing, word for word. "We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting."

Because both Breitbart and the Washington Times quoted an anonymous source saying the exact same thing does not make it two different sources. It isn't "another park ranger." It's the same quotation being re-used. Actually, It's been linked three times now. In each story in which is appears, the context is different. In one, it appears to be from someone located in Florida. In another, Washington. In a third, Arizona.

Please guys, go ahead and link it six more times. It's clearly been constructed to be the right wing gift that keeps on giving.

 

[woolfe9998]

True colors. When will people wake up and realize just how perverse and depraved our government has become under Obama?

I see the so-called non-partisan accepts anonymous quotes from right wing publications uncritically, and doesn't even bother to notice that it's being passed off as another quote when its the same one posted twice already. There's nothing lamer than "me tooing" anything and everything that fits with your pre-conceived bias. "True colors" indeed.

 

[woolfe9998]

I was thinking about your comments last night and this morning.

1 - The veterans at the new york monument stayed past closing time and were arrested.

The park was closed, what they were doing was protected free speech, so therefor the park should have remained open.

2 - We do not need permits to exercise freedom of speech.

3 - We do not need permits to peacefully assemble.

I don't even know how to respond to these points because they are not relevant to the discussion here. As I already said twice, the memorial in NYC is not a federal monument and the conduct of NYPD towards protesters there has nothing whatsoever to do with what is being discussed in the thread.

As to the issue of permits, it's been debated for decades. See Cox v. New Hampshire for what the SCOTUS has to say about it. It's also an irrelevant tangent in this thread.

 

[Fern]

A letter to Senators McCain and others from an owner of campgrounds etc on federal lands:

Senator John McCain

Senator Jeff Flake

Representative David Schweikert

Help! Administration Orders Shut Down of Privately-Operated Parks in National Forest

Parks that require no Federal money, and actually pay rent to the Treasury, are being required to close

Sirs:

My company, based in North Phoenix, operates over 100 US Forest Service campgrounds and day use areas under concession contract. Yesterday, as in all past government shutdowns, the Department of Agriculture and US Forest Service confirmed we would stay open during the government shutdown. This makes total sense, since our operations are self-sufficient (we are fully funded by user fees at the gate), we get no federal funds, we employ no government workers on these sites, and we actually pay rent into the Treasury.

However, today, we have been told by senior member of the US Forest Service and Department of Agriculture that people “above the department”, which I presume means the White House, plan to order the Forest Service to needlessly and illegally close all private operations. I can only assume their intention is to artificially increase the cost of the shutdown as some sort of political ploy.

The point of the shutdown is to close non-essential operations that require Federal money and manpower to stay open. So why is the White House closing private operations that require no government money to keep open and actually pay a percentage of their gate revenues back to the Treasury? We are a tenant of the US Forest Service, and a tenant does not have to close his business just because his landlord goes on a vacation.

I urge you to help stop the Administration from lawlessly taking arbitrary and illegal actions to artificially worsen the shutdown by hurting innocent hikers and campers. I am not asking you to restore any funding, because no funding is required to keep these operations open. I am asking that the Administration be required to only close government services that actually require budget resources.



Sincerely,

Warren Meyer

http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_bl...rivately-funded-privately-operated-parks.html

Fern

 

[OutHouse]

The National Park Service and the rangers will never recover the respect and good will they had from a majority of Americans after these episodes.

i dont blame the ranger in anyway. they are just the min wage worker doing what they are told. its the pencil necks in DC that need to be tared and feathered.

 

[boomerang]

With a mandatory retirement policy in place, Nancy would be at home with her feet up on the railing watching illegals pick her grapes.

List of celebrities who own wineries and vineyards

Former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi owns two vineyards that sell grapes to California producers.

 

[Texashiker]

As I already said twice, the memorial in NYC is not a federal monument and the conduct of NYPD towards protesters there has nothing whatsoever to do with what is being discussed in the thread.

You are splitting hairs.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech.

 

[Tom]

And to shut down businesses that are run on federal land.

There is no reason to shut down a privately owned cafe that just happens to be in a park.

Of course there is. If the park is closed. The park is closed to save money which means there's not enough human resources to protect and manage the assets except by restricting access to the assets.

 

[Tom]

A letter to Senators McCain and others from an owner of campgrounds etc on federal lands:



http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_bl...rivately-funded-privately-operated-parks.html

Fern

Its pretty far-fetched to assume it has anything to do with the White House other than a general directive to get costs to a certain level required by projected deficits.

One thing is for sure, the Forest service is responsible for managing forest lands; and if they feel that traffic or civilians using forest assets, including roads, cannot be properly managed withi their new budget, that's the way it goes. And he ought to be blaming John Boehner for refusing to allow a vote on the shutdown, not the White House.

 

[woolfe9998]

You are splitting hairs.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech.

I'm not splitting anything. Your thread has to do with how the federal government is handling the shutdown; specifically, an alleged double standard of allowing a protest at the National Mall while barring veterans from visiting memorials. What exactly does a curfew at a New York City memorial which is enforced by the NYPD have to do with any of that?

 

[monovillage]

i dont blame the ranger in anyway. they are just the min wage worker doing what they are told. its the pencil necks in DC that need to be tared and feathered.

I disagree.
http://marathonpundit.blogspot.ca/2013/10/spitehouse-national-park-goons-remove.html

Until very recently, the National Park Service was one of the least-loathed government agencies in the country. Now, with orders from on high to keep the public from visiting beloved parks and monuments the agency is developing a poor reputation.

More..,

It what looks like a spiteful move, the NPS even removed handles from water spigots along the Chesapeake and Ohio canal where bikers and joggers exercise as well as along the Great Allegheny Passage, just to ensure people don't get any water from them.

Instead of saving money, the NPS is expending additional resources to go out of its way to close such locations and to make people miserable.

There's really no scenario where this ends well for the NPS. First, several of their workers have lost their wages, workers are working without pay, and when the dust settles, heads will roll in subsequent investigations. The NPS is making itself unpopular with the American public, which is stewing for vengeance as the weather turns cold and bitter.