A thread about Christianity

[alkemyst]

one other thing I'd like to add, since some of it has come up.

You can summarize various reasons for having/believing in a religion without any need to prove there is a God, Gods, Godesses, or just a pile of fluff named 'Pete'.

Start each of these with "People want":

1) to belong to something....

2) to be able to control others....

3) to be better than others....

4) a purpose

5) hope after death

6) someone to solve their problems

etc

 

[OmegaRedd]

God is the biggest hoax of all time. If there is a god "he" is an alien with great power nothing more. As for homo sexuals they need strong moral aid. They justify their actions by saying this is the way I was born. If so it's a genetic defect but that is still no excuse. I wanna kill my boss and I am sure I am not the only one, does that make it right. I personally feel sorry for them. They should learn self control. Church is a money making machine that preys on the weak and a tool to gain political power. My veiws are not popular so I will get flamed. Boss if you can't think for yourself then by all means go to church no brain included.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: OmegaRedd
God is the biggest hoax of all time. If there is a god "he" is an alien with great power nothing more. As for homo sexuals they need strong moral aid. They justify their actions by saying this is the way I was born. If so it's a genetic defect but that is still no excuse. I wanna kill my boss and I am sure I am not the only one, does that make it right. I personally feel sorry for them. They should learn self control. Church is a money making machine that preys on the weak and a tool to gain political power. My veiws are not popular so I will get flamed. Boss if you can't think for yourself then by all means go to church no brain included.

put the crackpipe down sir, please.

What was the point of your post? You go into tangents and never take any out to it's end.

Did your boss tell you you are the Toilet and Hair Drain cleaner this week or something?

Your God definition is really flawed....since depending how great "his" power is...nothing more may be a very BIG understatement.



Chris

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: OmegaRedd
God is the biggest hoax of all time. If there is a god "he" is an alien with great power nothing more. As for homo sexuals they need strong moral aid. They justify their actions by saying this is the way I was born. If so it's a genetic defect but that is still no excuse. I wanna kill my boss and I am sure I am not the only one, does that make it right. I personally feel sorry for them. They should learn self control. Church is a money making machine that preys on the weak and a tool to gain political power. My veiws are not popular so I will get flamed. Boss if you can't think for yourself then by all means go to church no brain included.

It's not the popularity of your views that's in question. It's the lack of focus in your statement..

You deny the existence of God and then decry both homosexuality and the Church. On what do you base this moral disapproval of people's behavior? You fail to draw a distinction between homosexuality as an action and homosexuality as a preference or inclination. If it's a "genetic defect" as you say, then upon what is your sense of morality drawn that you say it's "no excuse"? No excuse for what?

 

[OmegaRedd]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: OmegaRedd
God is the biggest hoax of all time. If there is a god "he" is an alien with great power nothing more. As for homo sexuals they need strong moral aid. They justify their actions by saying this is the way I was born. If so it's a genetic defect but that is still no excuse. I wanna kill my boss and I am sure I am not the only one, does that make it right. I personally feel sorry for them. They should learn self control. Church is a money making machine that preys on the weak and a tool to gain political power. My veiws are not popular so I will get flamed. Boss if you can't think for yourself then by all means go to church no brain included.

put the crackpipe down sir, please.

What was the point of your post? You go into tangents and never take any out to it's end.

Did your boss tell you you are the Toilet and Hair Drain cleaner this week or something?

Your God definition is really flawed....since depending how great "his" power is...nothing more may be a very BIG understatement.



Chris

For all the talk about god anybody ever see him that you KNOW?

 

[OmegaRedd]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: OmegaRedd
God is the biggest hoax of all time. If there is a god "he" is an alien with great power nothing more. As for homo sexuals they need strong moral aid. They justify their actions by saying this is the way I was born. If so it's a genetic defect but that is still no excuse. I wanna kill my boss and I am sure I am not the only one, does that make it right. I personally feel sorry for them. They should learn self control. Church is a money making machine that preys on the weak and a tool to gain political power. My veiws are not popular so I will get flamed. Boss if you can't think for yourself then by all means go to church no brain included.

It's not the popularity of your views that's in question. It's the lack of focus in your statement..

You deny the existence of God and then decry both homosexuality and the Church. On what do you base this moral disapproval of people's behavior? You fail to draw a distinction between homosexuality as an action and homosexuality as a preference or inclination. If it's a "genetic defect" as you say, then upon what is your sense of morality drawn that you say it's "no excuse"? No excuse for what?

The church have commited more crimes than hitler and the homosexuals in it have preyed on young boys. As for god the is no proof of his being. History proves my points of the noble church and it's pretty clear that it's not a good thing. As for god there is no proof that he ever existed unless you count dreams.

 

[imported_Papi]

holy over rated thread.

 

[alkemyst]

OmegaReid you are now the guy bringing threadcrapping to a nice thread...your views are of the typical non-educated bashing.

sure some churches have commited crimes against humanity....some governments too, some charitable organizations as well....

The homosexuality arguement.....no comment, there are many many homosexuals in the world as well as heterosexuals doing the same thing....Rape is rape. Sex is sex, doesn't matter if it is MM, MF, FF if the partner is not of age it's a problem...(unless MAJOR circumstances can prove otherwise).

I have seen God myself, actually everytime I look in the mirror....but I forget your point, what was it?

 

[Ant001]

Just to point out: By definition, "Christians" are people who follow Christ. That being said, not all "Christians" are the same. Most non-Christians think of the Roman Catholic Church when they think of "Christians." However, there are many other denominations which would consider themselves Christians and have very different views. Just keep that in mind while posting.

 

[OmegaRedd]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
OmegaReid you are now the guy bringing threadcrapping to a nice thread...your views are of the typical non-educated bashing.

sure some churches have commited crimes against humanity....some governments too, some charitable organizations as well....

The homosexuality arguement.....no comment, there are many many homosexuals in the world as well as heterosexuals doing the same thing....Rape is rape. Sex is sex, doesn't matter if it is MM, MF, FF if the partner is not of age it's a problem...(unless MAJOR circumstances can prove otherwise).

I have seen God myself, actually everytime I look in the mirror....but I forget your point, what was it?

Looks like more excuses and if your god then I'm your dad. The christians say we're right everyone else is wrong and if you disagree your going to hell. As for crimes against humanity who killed more raped more stole more lied more. I'm half black/souix so I have a rather unique perspective on what the "christians did'. Anyone who didn't follow them was a threat. This whole county (usa) of heathens were killed and then the few that were left put on reservations for their protection. I could write 10 pages all with facts on the tribes alone. So don't preach about what you think happened I and my people know the truth about the good christans. As for homosexuals that is a disgusting european habit not shared by the rest of the world. Sex is for procreation children but like anything the european christians touch has become a dark shadow of nature. Now they say "anal sex and oral sex" trying to legitimize this unatural behavior as o.k. Even the christians muslims and heathens are repulsed by this small section of european perverson of the sacred act of procreation,but the world is wrong and homosexuals are right. Now the want to teach children that these acts are o.k. The european way has destroyed the balance between man and nature so now anything is o.k. No wonder this world is going to "hell".

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
To get a taste of how accepting most Christians are, wear a pentacle (on a necklace, or a T-shirt with its logo) and walk upto an average house, ring the doorbell and ask if u can use their phone, get directions, whatever

Actually the pentagram was a popular Christian symbol back in the middle ages. The five points of the star represented the five wound that Christ received on the cross.

 

[petrek]

Astaroth 33

What exactly is "fellowship" with God?

Fellowship with God is like friendship, and personally, I enjoy the company of good friends. God however, is better than the best friend because he knows what is best for us and cares more about us than we do ourselves.

Bask all together in Glory?

Actually, he's the only one that is basking in glory, we bask in His glory.

And regarding the angels, does God need slaves or errand boys to do grunt work for Him?

No. Angels are no more the servants of God than men are. And I should point out that being a servant isn't a bad thing or a negative thing unless you look at it from the me, me, me perspective. The reason why the non fallen angels and the real believers serve Christ is because we enjoy it. It brings us joy to serve the Most High God. He doesn't need people to serve him, He created everything, He knows everthing, and He sees all. This is what makes the fact that He came down here and walked on earth so amazing, because not only did He spend 30 odd years on earth, he allowed his creation to turn on him and kill Him, so that anyone who wants to spend eternity with Him in Heaven can.

Did Lucifer rebel of his own free will? If so, this indicates that angels have free will and sort of indicates that there is no reason for humans to exist (according to GtPrOjEcTX's answer to a previous question). Or did Lucifer not have free will; was his rebellion scripted by God as God's means of creating evil?

Ya, I looked at some of GtPrOjEcTX's answers to the questions and said...WHAT! (no offence man)

Yes Lucifer rebelled of his own free will. You see, God knew all along what would happen. He has always known. He lives outside of time, time only exists in the universe He created about 6,000 years ago. Before then, there was no such thing as time. No script. Lucifer choose his fate of his own free will.

Intuitively, I have trouble reconciling this. We all know evil when we see it, yet many people who are not evil in their hearts reject God. An evangelistic athiest, who otherwise leads a good life, is by definition then, evil? How do you compare such a person to, say, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Hitler, et al?

THAT is the epitomy of evil. Only God knows what is in peoples hearts, and it is ones heartfelt rejection of God that leads to eternal separation from God.

What makes killing evil if you are an evolutionist? death is natural regardless of how it occurs. Killing is wrong, because God says it is. Nonetheless, the Bible tells us not to worry about people who can destroy the physical body, but about Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (KJV Mathew 10:28)

In response to this question " Is God powerless to remove evil from Creation? If not, why does evil exist?" I said "Theoretically no. Technically yes.", you responded with "God wants evil to exist. Check."

So I will restate my response in a different way. Yes God is powerless to remove creatures that disagree with him because He guarentees us the freedom to choose our own destiny and He has also stated what will occur to those that reject Him. So, because He cannot change His mind. He cannot remove evil from this world.
Keep in mind that in the near future a new heaven and a new earth will be created where evil (those that oppose God) will not exist because they will be in Hell for eternity.

As far as I can tell, your answer doesn't address my question. Ok, so the angels were created during the six days of creation. So what's stopping Gabriel or some other angel from giving God the middle finger, as Lucifer did? If God is preventing it, then that indicates that angels do not have free will, and that God indeed wishes evil to exist. If angels do have free will, I can intuitively imagine (hypothetically) Gabriel rejecting God but also viewing the actions and attitude of Lucifer with distaste. Instead of looking at everything as either good or evil or somewhere inbetween, why can there not be a third point of view?

God knows what is going to happen. It is written in the Bible. God can't deceive, it cannot happen. The Bible tells us what the future holds...new Heaven, new Earth, eternity with God for those that choose Him, eternity without God for those that reject Him.
There can be no third point of view. Either you are with God, or you are against Him. There is no middle ground.
Your following two concerns are contained in this answer.

Again my questions regarding free will come to mind. If angels have free will, what's the difference between us and them? Why create two separate groups of entities?

Why not create two separate types of creature (there might be more than two as there are cherubims and I can't recall at this moment whether they are a type of angel or another creature)? Is there a problem with having more than one type of creature with a soul? I find the fact that I will have the opportunity to get to know some Angels in the future fascinating.

Here are just a few differences between angels and humans
-Angels were created with knowledge
-Angels were created in Heaven
-Angels do not have a physical body in the sense that we have a physical body
-Angels do not have to sort through what is true and what is a lie


Finally, a friend just phoned me to take a look outside because there was a thunderstorm brewing, so I took a break to check out the action, and man it's good to be alive, and to be counted worthy to serve the Lord.

Dave

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: OmegaRedd

Looks like more excuses and if your god then I'm your dad. The christians say we're right everyone else is wrong and if you disagree your going to hell. As for crimes against humanity who killed more raped more stole more lied more. I'm half black/souix so I have a rather unique perspective on what the "christians did'. Anyone who didn't follow them was a threat. This whole county (usa) of heathens were killed and then the few that were left put on reservations for their protection. I could write 10 pages all with facts on the tribes alone. So don't preach about what you think happened I and my people know the truth about the good christans. As for homosexuals that is a disgusting european habit not shared by the rest of the world. Sex is for procreation children but like anything the european christians touch has become a dark shadow of nature. Now they say "anal sex and oral sex" trying to legitimize this unatural behavior as o.k. Even the christians muslims and heathens are repulsed by this small section of european perverson of the sacred act of procreation,but the world is wrong and homosexuals are right. Now the want to teach children that these acts are o.k. The european way has destroyed the balance between man and nature so now anything is o.k. No wonder this world is going to "hell".

It was a point I was trying to make, you don't have one really...now you are bringing the plight of the indians into the mix....

I know exactly what happened to the indians, it had nothing to do with Christianity really. Sure that was a side note, but initially they were found on land that other's wanted, then proved to be technologically not advanced enough to keep it. It had nothing to do with Christianity....that was just a separate issue. The number one thing you just assumed and attacked me on was that I was not an Indian myself, for all you could have known is I could be Chief Bangingminutz of Whatever tribe....I am not, but these are points I was trying to make you see.

There are many religions that kill in their name, the Christians just have the most coverage due to their own censorships of other religions.

The whole sodomy thing is also very complex....you can argue points that it was made to be repulsive since it was not procreational, exactly what a religion wants to help itself grow, esp one where at birth you are forced to choose it even if your parents 'give you a choice' at 12-18 or whatever.

Another thing that got brought up is how Christians are unaccepting of those different/etc....see that is a flawed argument, as it assumes just because one is a Christian (said as a blanket statement and not assuming every Christian follows the same tenants) makes them a perfect one. If you look at my list above, some people want religion to say they are better than everyone else....most people like that aspect of life "I am better than you" "My car is nicer" "My shoes are nicer" "My religion is off the hook y0!" etc

I am willing to be if one were to take 100 random individuals who say they know everything about their religion, and follow it exactly and test them on it, they would fail and prove to be hypocritical.

 

[idfubar]

I am just wondering why people have a problem with Christianity? How exactly does it bother you if someone wants to do their own thing?

Evan,

For me the issue is that we live in, as Dick Cheney has called it, a "judeo-christian" society with "judeo-christian" values. For a Hindu like me, that amounts to 'love it or leave it' - either learn to accomodate the masses, get out of the way, or don't complain when you get run over.

While I find the Christian pantheon fastinating and extensive, things like inherrent sin and individual persecution for mass fault just don't seem to sit well with me. But, in all fairness, I'm a little tweaked since it's the hardcore faces of Christianity (like Southern Baptist) that tend to appeal to my imagination and catch my curiousity.

-Rishi

PS: Here's a rude but interesting question (not my own) - did Jesus need intelligence? All he had to do was suffer and bear persecution - does that take wit and guile, or just profound love and high thresholds of pain?

 

[petrek]

did Jesus need intelligence? All he had to do was suffer and bear persecution - does that take wit and guile, or just profound love and high thresholds of pain?

He didn't just suffer and bear persecution, he taught. Nonetheless, He had to have all knowledge. If He wasn't all knowing than he wouldn't be God, and if he wasn't God, then he was just a man, and if he was just a man, he was also a sinner, and if he was a sinner than he can't possibly save other sinners with His blood, and the death He suffered on the cross would be vain if it weren't for the fact that He is all knowing.

So, YES, Jesus Christ needed intelligence. He needed to be all knowing, because God is all knowing, and He is God.

Dave

 

[idfubar]

I thought he was the son of God.... Was he still all knowing?

 

[TravisT]

Jesus is the son of God but also part of the trinity which is one. More or less he was God in the flesh.

 

[alkemyst]

Assuming a non-religious point of view:

Jesus could have been the actual son of God or just another son of God

Jesus could have been the messiah or a false one

Jesus could have volunteered to be the scapegoat to allow the real 'prophet' to continue.

Jesus could have been God in human form.

there are many more possibilities.

 

[petrek]

I thought he was the son of God.... Was he still all knowing?

Yes of course. Man is made in the image of God, and just as I am made up of three parts (soul, body, and spirit), so too is God made up of three parts (Father(Soul), Son(Body), and Holy Spirit(Spirit)). The three parts are One. So, yes, Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, and God being all knowing, Jesus Christ was all knowing.

Dave

 

[alkemyst]

not trying to be the Devil's Advocate here (pun intended)....but the three parts thing can be applied to many things and you could use other numbers....

I got tired of listening to my priest spout off things that could be considered more coincidence than true solid comparisions.

 

[petrek]

You could use other numbers and other things, but that would not be relevant to the point I was making.

Dave

 

[DaviDaVinci]

How exactly does it bother you if someone wants to do their own thing?

Now if that was true......

Shoving pamphlets down my throat, telling me that i'm a sinner and need to be saved DURING MY B-DAY on 6th st downtown Austin at 10:30pm. Oh yah, they are doing their own thing alright....

It's a religion, not a consumer product, PLEASE quit advertising.

 

[Broohaha]

I'm a late arriver. Can I get Cliffs notes of this thread?

 

[EXman]

Shoving pamphlets down my throat, telling me that i'm a sinner and need to be saved DURING MY B-DAY on 6th st downtown Austin at 10:30pm. Oh yah, they are doing their own thing alright....

As a Christian I do not like that practice either I get it from my Fundy Baptist friends and I tell them I go to church every Sunday and enjoy my church just fine but thanks anyhow. There is a way to get people closer to Jesus and ramming it down peoples throats is not one of them in my experience. I do admire their boldness but it is too over the top for me.

Also to the guy saying leading a good life should get you into heaven... good luck...

 

[DaviDaVinci]

Originally posted by: EXman

Shoving pamphlets down my throat, telling me that i'm a sinner and need to be saved DURING MY B-DAY on 6th st downtown Austin at 10:30pm. Oh yah, they are doing their own thing alright....

As a Christian I do not like that practice either I get it from my Fundy Baptist friends and I tell them I go to church every Sunday and enjoy my church just fine but thanks anyhow. There is a way to get people closer to Jesus and ramming it down peoples throats is not one of them in my experience. I do admire their boldness but it is too over the top for me.

Also to the guy saying leading a good life should get you into heaven... good luck...

First of all, I agree regarding how not EVERYONE is like that.
Second, 'good life should get you into heaven" I believe in leading a good life, But NOT so I can get into heaven. There's a difference there. People who said they don't believe in god can't say they believe in Heaven and Hell and thus wouldn't make sense if anyone says "leading a good life should get u into heaven"

And also, if you do believe in god then remember, there is ONE god, the same god for all of us. Don't say MY god or YOUR god. If you believe in ONE almighty being, then don't think that your god is different from say a muslims god or jews god. That's the whole point of ONE almighty being.

Last rant, I used to believe in God. I still am afraid to disrespect the Holy Book (Adi Granth). (i'm a born Sikh). But when i think about it, IMHO, I think humans created God, in order to give explanations to the unexplained. "God gave us a blue eyed son." "God burned that tree down (lightning)" Everyday we eliminate another 'It was God'

i don't believe humans have the capacity beyond infinity (why we can't think of what's in the black hole and beyond, where does it end) and thus will always have something to blame onto God's doing. Our life is one big quest to seek answers. Easiest is to say "god did it"

Sorry about the rambling, prollly don't make sense, BUT I DO IN MY OWN HEAD, THAT "GOD GAVE ME"

Ciao

Davi