A thread about Christianity

[DaviDaVinci]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
one other thing I'd like to add, since some of it has come up.

You can summarize various reasons for having/believing in a religion without any need to prove there is a God, Gods, Godesses, or just a pile of fluff named 'Pete'.

Start each of these with "People want":

1) to belong to something....

2) to be able to control others....

3) to be better than others....

4) a purpose

5) hope after death

6) someone to solve their problems

etc

AMEN BROTHER!!

 

[DaviDaVinci]

Originally posted by: OmegaRedd
God is the biggest hoax of all time. If there is a god "he" is an alien with great power nothing more. As for homo sexuals they need strong moral aid. They justify their actions by saying this is the way I was born. If so it's a genetic defect but that is still no excuse. I wanna kill my boss and I am sure I am not the only one, does that make it right. I personally feel sorry for them. They should learn self control. Church is a money making machine that preys on the weak and a tool to gain political power. My veiws are not popular so I will get flamed. Boss if you can't think for yourself then by all means go to church no brain included.

OmegaRedd Can you please turn your PM's on or profile. I was gonna send you a PM instead of posting here and making this thread even longer.

Anyhow, I agree with you but i want to give GOD the benefit of the doubt. Most of the world can't be wrong can it? SO i'm not saying he/she/it doesn't exist, but I'm not saying he does either. I want to believe in him/her/it if he/she/it can prove that he/she/it exists. In summary, I'm waiting to see the so called "light". I thought I saw it last night but I was waking up to the honking sound of an 18 wheeler headed towards me with its brights on......i need to stop falling asleep at the wheel...

Ciao

D
a
v
i

ps did u know that God spelled backwards is Dog? One leads, the other follows....

 

[DaviDaVinci]

PM from EXman:
"god loves you

<hands you my Gods phamplet>

just kidding "

LMAO(ON mY DiRtY QWiky MArt FLOOR) AHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!!!


Oh my GOD!!! That just cracked me up.

Damn you EXman, my customer almost dropped his forty of OE. And you know that's a biznatch to mop up!

but thanks for the laugh

Ciao

Davi

My Qwiky Marts ownz urz.

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: amcdonald
There are a handful of christians who seem to make it their determination to make the other 95% of christians look like jerks.
There's a huge difference in asking someone if they want to come to church sometime and telling them they are going to hell.
I don't get how these people don't understand how insulting it can be to hear someone say that to you.
Of course if you don't believe in god it should be no big deal to hear that you are going to go to a hell that doesn't exist.
I don't fear punishment from a hindu god, so if a hindu for whatever reason told me I deserved said punishment, I would ignore it without a second thought.

Awesome. This is again exactly what I am looking for. Do you believe in God? Do you consider yourself a Christian? How often do you ecounter those people? Just 5% of the time?

Thanks

I run into lots of Christians. Seems like every Sunday there's about 700 of em all sittin in the same room with me. Go figure!

Gravity

 

[petrek]

And also, if you do believe in god then remember, there is ONE god, the same god for all of us. Don't say MY god or YOUR god. If you believe in ONE almighty being, then don't think that your god is different from say a muslims god or jews god. That's the whole point of ONE almighty being.

That's like saying that everyone with the same name is the same person, which is simply not true.

Dave

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: petrek
Astaroth 33

What exactly is "fellowship" with God?

Fellowship with God is like friendship, and personally, I enjoy the company of good friends. God however, is better than the best friend because he knows what is best for us and cares more about us than we do ourselves.

True friendship is something that is shared between equals; it is a relationship that has give and take, compromise, dialogue, and the occasional argument or fight. I like the company of good friends too; a "relationship" with God, however, strikes me more as a relationship between a dog and its master.

Bask all together in Glory?

Actually, he's the only one that is basking in glory, we bask in His glory.

See above. If God's radiating all this "glory" that I'm basking in, how can He and I possibly share a friendship of equals? And what, exactly, is "glory", and what's the point of basking in it? It strikes me as akin to being friends with a famous actor, or CEO, or head of state; being around someone whose accomplishments and abilities are so much greater than your own will diminish your own accomplishments by comparison, and deny you the right to be proud of who you are and what you've done with your life. I'm happy with who I am, thank you, and do not feel the need or desire to bask in anyone's "glory".

And regarding the angels, does God need slaves or errand boys to do grunt work for Him?

No. Angels are no more the servants of God than men are. And I should point out that being a servant isn't a bad thing or a negative thing unless you look at it from the me, me, me perspective. The reason why the non fallen angels and the real believers serve Christ is because we enjoy it. It brings us joy to serve the Most High God. He doesn't need people to serve him, He created everything, He knows everthing, and He sees all. This is what makes the fact that He came down here and walked on earth so amazing, because not only did He spend 30 odd years on earth, he allowed his creation to turn on him and kill Him, so that anyone who wants to spend eternity with Him in Heaven can.

I think we need to define what we mean by "serve".. To me it has a negative connotation, one most definitely NOT consistent with "friendship", as I do not "serve" my friends, and nor do they "serve" me.

Did Lucifer rebel of his own free will? If so, this indicates that angels have free will and sort of indicates that there is no reason for humans to exist (according to GtPrOjEcTX's answer to a previous question). Or did Lucifer not have free will; was his rebellion scripted by God as God's means of creating evil?

Ya, I looked at some of GtPrOjEcTX's answers to the questions and said...WHAT! (no offence man)

Yes Lucifer rebelled of his own free will. You see, God knew all along what would happen. He has always known. He lives outside of time, time only exists in the universe He created about 6,000 years ago. Before then, there was no such thing as time. No script. Lucifer choose his fate of his own free will.

Ok, I'll accept that answer, with the exception of the 6000 year aspect.

Intuitively, I have trouble reconciling this. We all know evil when we see it, yet many people who are not evil in their hearts reject God. An evangelistic athiest, who otherwise leads a good life, is by definition then, evil? How do you compare such a person to, say, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Hitler, et al?

THAT is the epitomy of evil. Only God knows what is in peoples hearts, and it is ones heartfelt rejection of God that leads to eternal separation from God.

I wholeheartedly disagree. If I choose to be an athiest or agnostic, to not follow the path of Christianity and to reject the very concept of a God in my heart, yet continue as I do to treat my fellow human beings on this planet with courtesy and respect, how can I possibly be considered truly evil? I am not evil, I am fairly certain of this.

What makes killing evil if you are an evolutionist? death is natural regardless of how it occurs. Killing is wrong, because God says it is. Nonetheless, the Bible tells us not to worry about people who can destroy the physical body, but about Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (KJV Mathew 10:28)

Evolution (and nature itself, really) only cares about survival of the species; if a species can survive long enough to reproduce and ensure its survival, anything that comes after is irrelevent. Whether or not one is an "evolutionist" has nothing to do with whether or not one considers killing evil (for the record, I believe it depends on the motive behind it). But I'm not sure I understand what you're saying next: Killing is wrong because God says it is, but don't worry about it, according to the Bible? That makes no sense. Why is killing wrong? Saying that "because God said so" is no more valid now than it was when you were a kid and your parents told you "because I said so".

In response to this question " Is God powerless to remove evil from Creation? If not, why does evil exist?" I said "Theoretically no. Technically yes.", you responded with "God wants evil to exist. Check."

So I will restate my response in a different way. Yes God is powerless to remove creatures that disagree with him because He guarentees us the freedom to choose our own destiny and He has also stated what will occur to those that reject Him. So, because He cannot change His mind. He cannot remove evil from this world.
Keep in mind that in the near future a new heaven and a new earth will be created where evil (those that oppose God) will not exist because they will be in Hell for eternity.

So in guaranteeing us free will, God denies it to Himself. Interesting. I don't think that's correct; I think it should read "He chooses not to change His mind, and chooses not to remove evil from this world". Is choosing not to remove evil from the world an act of goodness, or a truly evil deed in itself?

As far as I can tell, your answer doesn't address my question. Ok, so the angels were created during the six days of creation. So what's stopping Gabriel or some other angel from giving God the middle finger, as Lucifer did? If God is preventing it, then that indicates that angels do not have free will, and that God indeed wishes evil to exist. If angels do have free will, I can intuitively imagine (hypothetically) Gabriel rejecting God but also viewing the actions and attitude of Lucifer with distaste. Instead of looking at everything as either good or evil or somewhere inbetween, why can there not be a third point of view?

God knows what is going to happen. It is written in the Bible. God can't deceive, it cannot happen. The Bible tells us what the future holds...new Heaven, new Earth, eternity with God for those that choose Him, eternity without God for those that reject Him.
There can be no third point of view. Either you are with God, or you are against Him. There is no middle ground.
Your following two concerns are contained in this answer.

My limited understanding is that the Book of Revelations is what supposedly tells us what will happen in the future. That same limited understanding also tells me that Revelations is not exactly the most straightforward prose ever written, and is subject to interpretation as to what it means.

So you are saying that the choice to be "without God" is and only is equal to "against God". This is explicitly stated in the Bible? Why, and does it cover those who are not familiar with Christianity?

Again my questions regarding free will come to mind. If angels have free will, what's the difference between us and them? Why create two separate groups of entities?

Why not create two separate types of creature (there might be more than two as there are cherubims and I can't recall at this moment whether they are a type of angel or another creature)? Is there a problem with having more than one type of creature with a soul? I find the fact that I will have the opportunity to get to know some Angels in the future fascinating.

Here are just a few differences between angels and humans
-Angels were created with knowledge
-Angels were created in Heaven
-Angels do not have a physical body in the sense that we have a physical body
-Angels do not have to sort through what is true and what is a lie

So the answer is "why not create angels"? Given the differences, it's almost as if God is conducting a scientific experiment, and they're the control group.

Finally, a friend just phoned me to take a look outside because there was a thunderstorm brewing, so I took a break to check out the action, and man it's good to be alive, and to be counted worthy to serve the Lord.

Dave

Thunderstorms are indeed an interesting and impressive display of nature equalizing electrical potentials in the Earth's atmosphere and the ground.

 

[petrek]

True friendship is something that is shared between equals; it is a relationship that has give and take, compromise, dialogue, and the occasional argument or fight. I like the company of good friends too; a "relationship" with God, however, strikes me more as a relationship between a dog and its master.


See above. If God's radiating all this "glory" that I'm basking in, how can He and I possibly share a friendship of equals? And what, exactly, is "glory", and what's the point of basking in it? It strikes me as akin to being friends with a famous actor, or CEO, or head of state; being around someone whose accomplishments and abilities are so much greater than your own will diminish your own accomplishments by comparison, and deny you the right to be proud of who you are and what you've done with your life. I'm happy with who I am, thank you, and do not feel the need or desire to bask in anyone's "glory".

I think we need to define what we mean by "serve".. To me it has a negative connotation, one most definitely NOT consistent with "friendship", as I do not "serve" my friends, and nor do they "serve" me.

I'm not going to tell you that your not entitled to your opinions, because you are. Your opinions are your opinions, and you are by every account entitled to them. I disagree with them, and I'll tell you why.

God is God. He can't change who he is. He always was and always will be. He doesn't increase in knowledge, nor does he decrease in knowledge. He is God. He can't change who He is.
I can tell you lies about who He is, create a god that you want to have, but I'd be lying, and nobody in their right mind wants to be lied to.

True friendship is something that is shared between two or more individuals who care for one another. Age, race, success, money, power have nothing to do with real friendship. Real friendship is about the heart, and the fact of the matter is that God cared enough about us to be born as one of us, live 30 odd years here on earth, and then be crucified for a crime he didn't commit. That sounds like friendship to me. He knows what it's like to be a human, he was one once.

And let's not forget that God doesn't need anything from us. He can create out of nothing. It's not like God actually needs the 10% in tithes, in far less than the blink of an eye he could produce a mountain of gold, or a mountain of diamonds, no effort needed on his part. Tithing is about teaching. Just as "serving" Him is about teaching. Both are intended to better ourselves, to bring us (Christians) closer to him, to help us understand him better.

About servitude. If a friend asks me for a favor and I do it. Do I necessarily feel like I was used? Of course not. In a lot of cases those doing the favor are greatful they could be of service. Such is the case for the true servant of God, happy to be of service.

Glory is a word used to describe the greatness of God. God can't change who or what He is. He is what He is. And let me remind you that if it weren't for Him, you wouldn't exist.

I wholeheartedly disagree. If I choose to be an athiest or agnostic, to not follow the path of Christianity and to reject the very concept of a God in my heart, yet continue as I do to treat my fellow human beings on this planet with courtesy and respect, how can I possibly be considered truly evil? I am not evil, I am fairly certain of this.

Like I was saying above, if it weren't for God you wouldn't be here. You have what you have because God has created you, He has created everything around you, and He came down to earth and died on a cross for you so that you can have eternal life.
You in turn not only reject Him, but deny his very existance. I'd say that's evil.

Evolution (and nature itself, really) only cares about survival of the species; if a species can survive long enough to reproduce and ensure its survival, anything that comes after is irrelevent. Whether or not one is an "evolutionist" has nothing to do with whether or not one considers killing evil (for the record, I believe it depends on the motive behind it). But I'm not sure I understand what you're saying next: Killing is wrong because God says it is, but don't worry about it, according to the Bible? That makes no sense. Why is killing wrong? Saying that "because God said so" is no more valid now than it was when you were a kid and your parents told you "because I said so".

To be honest, nature doesn't care about anything. It has no conscience. It just is.
Realistically, if one is an evolutionist, killing could hardly be considered evil regardless of the motive. Death is a fact of reality.
Physical death can't destroy the soul. Physical death solidifies ones fate (as once physical death occurs an individual either goes to heaven or hell)
Your not thinking deeply enough about it, your not going far enough back. Ultimately, God told man that murder was wrong. Man told men, etc, etc, your parents told you. I must still disagree with you and say that "because God said so" is valid, because God did say so, and God is God, and God exists. (Again, I could lie to you and say that the God of the Bible doesn't exist, or that the Bible doesn't actually mean what it clearly says, but that would be lying, and any reasonable man wants to know the truth so that He can make a clear decision based on accurate facts.) I cannot change what is.

So in guaranteeing us free will, God denies it to Himself. Interesting. I don't think that's correct; I think it should read "He chooses not to change His mind, and chooses not to remove evil from this world". Is choosing not to remove evil from the world an act of goodness, or a truly evil deed in itself?

What you think is as irrelevant as what I think...totally. God can't change who or what He is. Man can deny who or what He is, but God cannot change His character. And in guaranteeing free will for men and angels he is unable to remove people or angels who strive against His will because then free will would not exist. Part and parcel of allowing people and angels to make their own choices means that some will choose to do their own will in opposition to the will of God. Believe it or not, God is powerless to prevent them from making their own choices, because if he denied them the freedom to choose He would be a liar, and it is impossible for God to lie.

My limited understanding is that the Book of Revelations is what supposedly tells us what will happen in the future. That same limited understanding also tells me that Revelations is not exactly the most straightforward prose ever written, and is subject to interpretation as to what it means.

It's not so much that it's not straightforward, it's that it tells us what will happen but not how exactly the events leading up to it will take place, and with the limited ability that men have, there are bound to be some errors. Chances are almost a hundred percent that anyone making predictions about end time scenarios will have some errors in their suggestions because unlike God who knows everything, man does not. So while Revelation and the other books that deal with end time events are entirely accurate, mens understanding of how the events will unfold usually contain some error.

So you are saying that the choice to be "without God" is and only is equal to "against God". This is explicitly stated in the Bible? Why, and does it cover those who are not familiar with Christianity?

KJV I John 5:10-12 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

As to the second part, I suggest you read KJV Romans 2:13-15 and Psalms 19:1-2

So the answer is "why not create angels"? Given the differences, it's almost as if God is conducting a scientific experiment, and they're the control group.

Seeing as you had the happy face, I'll take it as though you understood what I was saying.


Dave