A thread about Christianity

[gopunk]

How is Christians spreading their beliefs any different that Republicans and Democrats spreading theirs? They have pamphlets and monuments put up of their greatest members. Sorta the same thing to me.

yea, i find that immensely annoying as well (the pamphlets). i hate activists of all kinds... because if you think about it, they are actively trying to disrupt my life.

i don't view the debates that go on in congress as the same thing as an attempted conversion however, because most of those debates involve facts and trying to show that the facts support your viewpoint, whereas most conversion attempts involve something along the lines of "well, i know i'm right.. there is no way for you to verify this, but trust me, i know better than you because i've seen the light and you haven't". if the argument during conversion was based solely on verifyable facts, i wouldn't have such a large problem with it. but the nature of christianity requires blind faith, and to me, arguing about that is a huge waste of my time.

I guess I can understand you find it offensive, but in the same way don't you think there are lots of people that find certain ways of life offensive? Cussing and drinking are offensive to some but people just learn to deal with it.

well yes, but i draw a line, and i think there is a fundamental difference, when the action directly involves me. if somebody wants to cuss, i may get offended, but it is their right to cuss... now if they are calling me up and cussing at me, i might take offense to that. i believe in as much personal freedom as possible, provided you don't interfere with my life. you can drink all you want, just don't come up puking on me or drunk driving into my car.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

I do, however, believe in Creationism to some degree because I think evolutionary theory doesn't properly account for the start of the earth.

Not to harp on you or anything, but in my opinion the choice to ditch evolutionary theory entirely on whatever inconsistency for Creationism (which is supported mostly, if not completely, by words written in the Bible) doesn't strike me as completely logical. It would make more sense to modify evolutionary theory as needed based on any new facts that arise. It is also perfectly acceptable to simply say that you don't know, and to not have a personal belief as to how the earth was formed and how humans got here.

What is a "Hell House"?

The problem that I have with Christianity is the same that I have with Islam: It's largely intolerant of people who don't see eye to eye.

To me Creationism is the most logical thing considering we don't know. I do believe humans have evolved over time. How could anyone think different when you think of Cro-Magnon man and Neanderthals. But that doesn't mean that I don't think SOMETHING had to create that first man. gopunk said that Evolutionary theory doesn't say it created the earth so I will say ok to that. What does say it knows though? The Big-Bang theory?

Personally I don't know what happens, but the only thing that makes sense to me is that some higher being created the earth.

I think it's possible that some higher power (not necessarily a "higher being" in the Judeo-Christian monotheistic tradition) may have created the universe, but given the size and location of Earth within that immensity, I also believe it's unlikely that such a higher power would have a personal interest in Earth itself or the beings that inhabit it. I also think it's utterly silly that such a higher power would require our adoration and worship.

Quoting Robert Heinlein, from the novel "Time Enough for Love":

The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, withou a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history.

I can understand that point of view, but I can't say that I agree with it. Right now I am presupposing that the Bible for the most part is "true." But hey that is why we have the freedom to choose. Interesting quote, however, and I will have to remember that for future pontification.

 

[dartworth]

I have been to churches that are more of a social club than anything else. It's strange to see people checking each other out and catching up on the latest gossip. Really makes you wonder where people are coming from. Reasons like these have turned me off to going to church. Or if I didn't go every week, there are those certain few that would try to make you feel guilty.

Yes, I am going to hell because I missed Sunday service

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Blain
"The morals however are essentially similar to the Golden Rule -- don't infringe on my freedom and I won't infringe on yours."

That's really not the theme of the Golden Rule. What you've described is a more "tit for tat" world view.
The Golden Rule doesn't allow for retaliation in the case of another doing you wrong.

You're right, that was very poorly phrased. The golden rule is simply "do unto others as you would have others do unto you," IIRC. What I am suggesting is, I suppose more of a combination of the Golden rule with 'tit for tat' - If a person murders another, he should at least lose his freedom, which I guess is, in a sense, 'tit for tat'. But I don't believe that anyone who acts rationally would commit a crime, since it is not moral to infringe on another's freedom (i.e. the golden rule).

So more like. "Don't infringe on my freedom, it's not right. If you force me to, I will protect my freedom."

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: gopunk

How is Christians spreading their beliefs any different that Republicans and Democrats spreading theirs? They have pamphlets and monuments put up of their greatest members. Sorta the same thing to me.

yea, i find that immensely annoying as well (the pamphlets). i hate activists of all kinds... because if you think about it, they are actively trying to disrupt my life.

i don't view the debates that go on in congress as the same thing as an attempted conversion however, because most of those debates involve facts and trying to show that the facts support your viewpoint, whereas most conversion attempts involve something along the lines of "well, i know i'm right.. there is no way for you to verify this, but trust me, i know better than you because i've seen the light and you haven't". if the argument during conversion was based solely on verifyable facts, i wouldn't have such a large problem with it. but the nature of christianity requires blind faith, and to me, arguing about that is a huge waste of my time.

I guess I can understand you find it offensive, but in the same way don't you think there are lots of people that find certain ways of life offensive? Cussing and drinking are offensive to some but people just learn to deal with it.

well yes, but i draw a line, and i think there is a fundamental difference, when the action directly involves me. if somebody wants to cuss, i may get offended, but it is their right to cuss... now if they are calling me up and cussing at me, i might take offense to that. i believe in as much personal freedom as possible, provided you don't interfere with my life. you can drink all you want, just don't come up puking on me or drunk driving into my car.

Fair enough, but I don't think a lot of people get to choose if they encounter a drunk or profanity. Also, I was thinking more along the lines of the political parties espousing their views on television and/or in rallies and grassroots campaigns. It is annoying to have people ringing your doorbell or calling you to ask you to vote for candidate X just as it is if Christians do that. That is why I drew the comparison.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Millennium
BTW, Astaroth a hellhouse is like a situational drama in which people's choices result in either heaven or hell. Basically you build a set with different rooms and there are actors in each room. Each one commits a sin: rape, abortion, homosexuality, etc and then they are basically given the choice to repent. Maybe google has more because I don't know of a better way to explain it.

That is not to say I consider homosexuality as a sin.

Interesting. The first couple of Google links, here and here seem to indicate that the purpose is different, and a bit more sinister. It's purpose seems to be in part to scare some young people into Christianity, and to socially ostracize those people whom Christianity deems as "sinners".

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: amcdonald

Originally posted by: Millennium
Awesome. This is again exactly what I am looking for. Do you believe in God? Do you consider yourself a Christian? How often do you ecounter those people? Just 5% of the time?

Thanks

I'm a christian, and I really don't run into people like I described that often. Its sad to see it though. I hang out with all kinds of people, and I can't stand the self-righteous/judgemental type. Judgemental people aren't exclusively christian though... you'll find many an athiest who would consider someone an idiot just because they believe in something greater than themselves. That's what I used to think.

i don't thikn there's anything wrong with judging people... it's only natural... but people should keep their judgements to themselves, imo

 

[So]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: amcdonald

Originally posted by: Millennium
Awesome. This is again exactly what I am looking for. Do you believe in God? Do you consider yourself a Christian? How often do you ecounter those people? Just 5% of the time?

Thanks

I'm a christian, and I really don't run into people like I described that often. Its sad to see it though. I hang out with all kinds of people, and I can't stand the self-righteous/judgemental type. Judgemental people aren't exclusively christian though... you'll find many an athiest who would consider someone an idiot just because they believe in something greater than themselves. That's what I used to think.

i don't thikn there's anything wrong with judging people... it's only natural... but people should keep their judgements to themselves, imo

You make a good point. I do reserve the right to make judgements, on things, or even on people, but I try to judge people for who they are, not because they must agree completely with every opinion (especially political / religious) that I hold. I reserve the right to judge someone an asshole.

 

[amcdonald]

So mentioned he has a friend who tries to bring God into conversations, and I had a friend in high school who would do the same thing. I wrote him off as ignorant/naive because of his beliefs... back then I was a hardcore atheist. I mean I was reading freaking Sartre in 9th grade. I wasn't the stupid metal kid with an offensive streak, I was genuinely into philosophy because it was interesting to me. I'm rambling because its late, but my point is this... When my good friend from high school talked with me about what we believed, he did so purely out of love. He actually cared about me and wanted to know what and why I believed. He wasn't looking at me as a "soul" ...I was a judgemental dick back then, and I would tear into his faith ruthlessly. Since I believed in nothing I couldn't grasp that insulting someone's faith is the same as insulting them. oh well. another lesson learned.
There are undoubtedly christians who talk to hear themselves speak or make themselves feel good, but there are sincere people out there too. It may be hard to believe unless you meet someone like that. I try now to surround myself with altruistic people.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: amcdonald

Originally posted by: Millennium
Awesome. This is again exactly what I am looking for. Do you believe in God? Do you consider yourself a Christian? How often do you ecounter those people? Just 5% of the time?

Thanks

I'm a christian, and I really don't run into people like I described that often. Its sad to see it though. I hang out with all kinds of people, and I can't stand the self-righteous/judgemental type. Judgemental people aren't exclusively christian though... you'll find many an athiest who would consider someone an idiot just because they believe in something greater than themselves. That's what I used to think.

i don't thikn there's anything wrong with judging people... it's only natural... but people should keep their judgements to themselves, imo

You make a good point. I do reserve the right to make judgements, on things, or even on people, but I try to judge people for who they are, not because they must agree completely with every opinion (especially political / religious) that I hold. I reserve the right to judge someone an asshole.

Yeah well I have to agree with that as well.

 

[dc]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Blain
"I would be happier rotting in hell, knowing that I had beaten an omnipotent being because I didn't submit to his irrational demand that I bow before him."

Couldn't a prisoner on death row say the same thing about his situation? "Cool... I'm stickin' it to the man!"

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

yea... but it wouldn't be quite the same because the prisoner had presumably done something wrong, something to hurt others. though i guess from a christian standpoint, not believing is wrong. but from an atheist standpoint, it would be like if plea bargaining would get you out of a death sentence but you know you were innocent so you refuse to plea bargain and thus get sent to the chair.

actually, from a christian standpoint, man is born sinful/with a sinful nature and is deserving of death/hell/seperation from God.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Millennium
BTW, Astaroth a hellhouse is like a situational drama in which people's choices result in either heaven or hell. Basically you build a set with different rooms and there are actors in each room. Each one commits a sin: rape, abortion, homosexuality, etc and then they are basically given the choice to repent. Maybe google has more because I don't know of a better way to explain it.

That is not to say I consider homosexuality as a sin.

Interesting. The first couple of Google links, here and here seem to indicate that the purpose is different, and a bit more sinister. It's purpose seems to be in part to scare some young people into Christianity, and to socially ostracize those people whom Christianity deems as "sinners".

Like I said I don't know that much about them but I have been to one once. The thing that bothers me about them is what you said. No sense in ostracizing anyone or scaring anyone into believing what you believe.

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: amcdonald
So mentioned he has a friend who tries to bring God into conversations, and I had a friend in high school who would do the same thing. I wrote him off as ignorant/naive because of his beliefs... back then I was a hardcore atheist. I mean I was reading freaking Sartre in 9th grade. I wasn't the stupid metal kid with an offensive streak, I was genuinely into philosophy because it was interesting to me. I'm rambling because its late, but my point is this... When my good friend from high school talked with me about what we believed, he did so purely out of love. He actually cared about me and wanted to know what and why I believed. He wasn't looking at me as a "soul" ...I was a judgemental dick back then, and I would tear into his faith ruthlessly. Since I believed in nothing I couldn't grasp that insulting someone's faith is the same as insulting them. oh well. another lesson learned.
There are undoubtedly christians who talk to hear themselves speak or make themselves feel good, but there are sincere people out there too. It may be hard to believe unless you meet someone like that. I try now to surround myself with altruistic people.

This is so true. It's amazing how our points of view change though the years.

 

[gopunk]

Fair enough, but I don't think a lot of people get to choose if they encounter a drunk or profanity.

yea, so you run into this problem of where you draw the line... i mean what if people are offended at clothed people? so the approach i generally take on this is reciprocation. this is somewhat arbitrary, but i really think this offers the most amount of harmony. don't try to bug others, and they don't try to bug you. i think any other system would cause way too many problems, and a strict adherence would result in gridlock. for example, if we take saying certain words to be unacceptable because they offend someone, what's to prevent the rest of the english language as also being outlawed? imo, people shouldn't impose their sense of morality unto others unless they are fully prepared to receive the same from others.

of course there might be some that would say "okay" and proceed to bug me.. don't know how to take care of those people... ice pick perhaps...

It is annoying to have people ringing your doorbell or calling you to ask you to vote for candidate X just as it is if Christians do that. That is why I drew the comparison.

ah yes i completely agree... wish i could do something to them... especially people that hold up traffic... but alas, vehicular manslaughter is still a crime

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Millennium
BTW, Astaroth a hellhouse is like a situational drama in which people's choices result in either heaven or hell. Basically you build a set with different rooms and there are actors in each room. Each one commits a sin: rape, abortion, homosexuality, etc and then they are basically given the choice to repent. Maybe google has more because I don't know of a better way to explain it.

That is not to say I consider homosexuality as a sin.

Interesting. The first couple of Google links, here and here seem to indicate that the purpose is different, and a bit more sinister. It's purpose seems to be in part to scare some young people into Christianity, and to socially ostracize those people whom Christianity deems as "sinners".

Like I said I don't know that much about them but I have been to one once. The thing that bothers me about them is what you said. No sense in ostracizing anyone or scaring anyone into believing what you believe.

So many people fail to realize this. They end up just pushing them further away.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: amcdonald
So mentioned he has a friend who tries to bring God into conversations, and I had a friend in high school who would do the same thing. I wrote him off as ignorant/naive because of his beliefs... back then I was a hardcore atheist. I mean I was reading freaking Sartre in 9th grade. I wasn't the stupid metal kid with an offensive streak, I was genuinely into philosophy because it was interesting to me. I'm rambling because its late, but my point is this... When my good friend from high school talked with me about what we believed, he did so purely out of love. He actually cared about me and wanted to know what and why I believed. He wasn't looking at me as a "soul" ...I was a judgemental dick back then, and I would tear into his faith ruthlessly. Since I believed in nothing I couldn't grasp that insulting someone's faith is the same as insulting them. oh well. another lesson learned.
There are undoubtedly christians who talk to hear themselves speak or make themselves feel good, but there are sincere people out there too. It may be hard to believe unless you meet someone like that. I try now to surround myself with altruistic people.

I have ran into mostly sincere people. In the documentary tonight there was a part that I find pretty funny. One little punk who said he was offended by the display come outside cussing and saying "he didn't like that lovely human Christian stuff and it was what he expected." Then he goes on to say that he has gay friends and they would be offended too yet he just used a slur against gay people. It had me scratching my head as I continued to watch him cuss this minister out and flip him off. The entire time the minister never got upset or raised his voice. He said "each person has a decision to make on whether or not they want to believe as we do. If they don't then that is their prerogative and they have the right to not believe. However, he said that he understood the kids point of view, but that he should look at the scripture that their hellhouse is based on." The kid pretty much backed down and seemed almost apologetic but then he received a second wind and went back to cussing and walked off and said "I need a cigarette." To me the kid was guilty of what he was accusing the minster of being. He went their to argue and cram his beliefs down their throats and was a bigot to boot.

It really amazed me how calm the minister remained and that the end of the scene he said he hopes the kid can become happy one day. You could tell that he was really genuine.

 

[Blain]

"I don't thikn there's anything wrong with judging people..."

You're right about that. We have to make judgments about people all the time. What Jesus was teaching was not to judge people from a distorted viewpoint, and with no motivation towards helping them. Giving people a fair hearing (mentally), is the point.

The apostle Paul criticized the Corinthian church for turning a blind eye to immorality going on in their midst. Telling them that it was important for them to judge things that were going on in the "church" (not a building, but a congregation of likeminded believers). He also came down on them for members taking other members to civil judges and not having their disputes settled "in house".

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Fair enough, but I don't think a lot of people get to choose if they encounter a drunk or profanity.

yea, so you run into this problem of where you draw the line... i mean what if people are offended at clothed people? so the approach i generally take on this is reciprocation. this is somewhat arbitrary, but i really think this offers the most amount of harmony. don't try to bug others, and they don't try to bug you. i think any other system would cause way too many problems, and a strict adherence would result in gridlock. for example, if we take saying certain words to be unacceptable because they offend someone, what's to prevent the rest of the english language as also being outlawed? imo, people shouldn't impose their sense of morality unto others unless they are fully prepared to receive the same from others.

It is annoying to have people ringing your doorbell or calling you to ask you to vote for candidate X just as it is if Christians do that. That is why I drew the comparison.

ah yes i completely agree... wish i could do something to them... especially people that hold up traffic... but alas, vehicular manslaughter is still a crime

What you propose is assuming a slippery slope type of deal but I guess I can agree that if you start outlawing things based on their offensive nature not much is left. See the whole PC movement has done the same and has made useful yet crude terms into some kind of horrid offense.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: amcdonald
So mentioned he has a friend who tries to bring God into conversations, and I had a friend in high school who would do the same thing. I wrote him off as ignorant/naive because of his beliefs... back then I was a hardcore atheist. I mean I was reading freaking Sartre in 9th grade. I wasn't the stupid metal kid with an offensive streak, I was genuinely into philosophy because it was interesting to me. I'm rambling because its late, but my point is this... When my good friend from high school talked with me about what we believed, he did so purely out of love. He actually cared about me and wanted to know what and why I believed. He wasn't looking at me as a "soul" ...I was a judgemental dick back then, and I would tear into his faith ruthlessly. Since I believed in nothing I couldn't grasp that insulting someone's faith is the same as insulting them. oh well. another lesson learned.
There are undoubtedly christians who talk to hear themselves speak or make themselves feel good, but there are sincere people out there too. It may be hard to believe unless you meet someone like that. I try now to surround myself with altruistic people.

I have ran into mostly sincere people. In the documentary tonight there was a part that I find pretty funny. One little punk who said he was offended by the display come outside cussing and saying "he didn't like that lovely human Christian stuff and it was what he expected." Then he goes on to say that he has gay friends and they would be offended too yet he just used a slur against gay people. It had me scratching my head as I continued to watch him cuss this minister out and flip him off. The entire time the minister never got upset or raised his voice. He said "each person has a decision to make on whether or not they want to believe as we do. If they don't then that is their prerogative and they have the right to not believe. However, he said that he understood the kids point of view, but that he should look at the scripture that their hellhouse is based on." The kid pretty much backed down and seemed almost apologetic but then he received a second wind and went back to cussing and walked off and said "I need a cigarette." To me the kid was guilty of what he was accusing the minster of being. He went their to argue and cram his beliefs down their throats and was a bigot to boot.

It really amazed me how calm the minister remained and that the end of the scene he said he hopes the kid can become happy one day. You could tell that he was really genuine.

well, just keep in mind that not all atheists are like that... he's in a small minority, just like the fundies are a small minority of the christian population.

 

[gopunk]

alright gonna go to sleep now... nice talking with y'all, good to see that everything stayed civil

 

[So]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: amcdonald
So mentioned he has a friend who tries to bring God into conversations, and I had a friend in high school who would do the same thing. I wrote him off as ignorant/naive because of his beliefs... back then I was a hardcore atheist. I mean I was reading freaking Sartre in 9th grade. I wasn't the stupid metal kid with an offensive streak, I was genuinely into philosophy because it was interesting to me. I'm rambling because its late, but my point is this... When my good friend from high school talked with me about what we believed, he did so purely out of love. He actually cared about me and wanted to know what and why I believed. He wasn't looking at me as a "soul" ...I was a judgemental dick back then, and I would tear into his faith ruthlessly. Since I believed in nothing I couldn't grasp that insulting someone's faith is the same as insulting them. oh well. another lesson learned.
There are undoubtedly christians who talk to hear themselves speak or make themselves feel good, but there are sincere people out there too. It may be hard to believe unless you meet someone like that. I try now to surround myself with altruistic people.

I have ran into mostly sincere people. In the documentary tonight there was a part that I find pretty funny. One little punk who said he was offended by the display come outside cussing and saying "he didn't like that lovely human Christian stuff and it was what he expected." Then he goes on to say that he has gay friends and they would be offended too yet he just used a slur against gay people. It had me scratching my head as I continued to watch him cuss this minister out and flip him off. The entire time the minister never got upset or raised his voice. He said "each person has a decision to make on whether or not they want to believe as we do. If they don't then that is their prerogative and they have the right to not believe. However, he said that he understood the kids point of view, but that he should look at the scripture that their hellhouse is based on." The kid pretty much backed down and seemed almost apologetic but then he received a second wind and went back to cussing and walked off and said "I need a cigarette." To me the kid was guilty of what he was accusing the minster of being. He went their to argue and cram his beliefs down their throats and was a bigot to boot.

It really amazed me how calm the minister remained and that the end of the scene he said he hopes the kid can become happy one day. You could tell that he was really genuine.

well, just keep in mind that not all atheists are like that... he's in a small minority, just like the fundies are a small minority of the christian population.

The problem, for both sides, is that the militantly ignorant / closed minded minorities are the loudest ones.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: dc

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Blain
"I would be happier rotting in hell, knowing that I had beaten an omnipotent being because I didn't submit to his irrational demand that I bow before him."

Couldn't a prisoner on death row say the same thing about his situation? "Cool... I'm stickin' it to the man!"

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

yea... but it wouldn't be quite the same because the prisoner had presumably done something wrong, something to hurt others. though i guess from a christian standpoint, not believing is wrong. but from an atheist standpoint, it would be like if plea bargaining would get you out of a death sentence but you know you were innocent so you refuse to plea bargain and thus get sent to the chair.

actually, from a christian standpoint, man is born sinful/with a sinful nature and is deserving of death/hell/seperation from God.

yea that's true... so i guess the guy wouldn't be beating anybody, just failing himself.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: gopunk
alright gonna go to sleep now... nice talking with y'all, good to see that everything stayed civil

Likewise, gopunk.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: amcdonald
So mentioned he has a friend who tries to bring God into conversations, and I had a friend in high school who would do the same thing. I wrote him off as ignorant/naive because of his beliefs... back then I was a hardcore atheist. I mean I was reading freaking Sartre in 9th grade. I wasn't the stupid metal kid with an offensive streak, I was genuinely into philosophy because it was interesting to me. I'm rambling because its late, but my point is this... When my good friend from high school talked with me about what we believed, he did so purely out of love. He actually cared about me and wanted to know what and why I believed. He wasn't looking at me as a "soul" ...I was a judgemental dick back then, and I would tear into his faith ruthlessly. Since I believed in nothing I couldn't grasp that insulting someone's faith is the same as insulting them. oh well. another lesson learned.
There are undoubtedly christians who talk to hear themselves speak or make themselves feel good, but there are sincere people out there too. It may be hard to believe unless you meet someone like that. I try now to surround myself with altruistic people.

I have ran into mostly sincere people. In the documentary tonight there was a part that I find pretty funny. One little punk who said he was offended by the display come outside cussing and saying "he didn't like that lovely human Christian stuff and it was what he expected." Then he goes on to say that he has gay friends and they would be offended too yet he just used a slur against gay people. It had me scratching my head as I continued to watch him cuss this minister out and flip him off. The entire time the minister never got upset or raised his voice. He said "each person has a decision to make on whether or not they want to believe as we do. If they don't then that is their prerogative and they have the right to not believe. However, he said that he understood the kids point of view, but that he should look at the scripture that their hellhouse is based on." The kid pretty much backed down and seemed almost apologetic but then he received a second wind and went back to cussing and walked off and said "I need a cigarette." To me the kid was guilty of what he was accusing the minster of being. He went their to argue and cram his beliefs down their throats and was a bigot to boot.

It really amazed me how calm the minister remained and that the end of the scene he said he hopes the kid can become happy one day. You could tell that he was really genuine.

well, just keep in mind that not all atheists are like that... he's in a small minority, just like the fundies are a small minority of the christian population.

Oh yes I agree. In fact I have never encountered anyone like him except online. It doesn't bother me because I think the Christian fundies can match wits with them and leave the rest of us to live in bliss.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: amcdonald
So mentioned he has a friend who tries to bring God into conversations, and I had a friend in high school who would do the same thing. I wrote him off as ignorant/naive because of his beliefs... back then I was a hardcore atheist. I mean I was reading freaking Sartre in 9th grade. I wasn't the stupid metal kid with an offensive streak, I was genuinely into philosophy because it was interesting to me. I'm rambling because its late, but my point is this... When my good friend from high school talked with me about what we believed, he did so purely out of love. He actually cared about me and wanted to know what and why I believed. He wasn't looking at me as a "soul" ...I was a judgemental dick back then, and I would tear into his faith ruthlessly. Since I believed in nothing I couldn't grasp that insulting someone's faith is the same as insulting them. oh well. another lesson learned.
There are undoubtedly christians who talk to hear themselves speak or make themselves feel good, but there are sincere people out there too. It may be hard to believe unless you meet someone like that. I try now to surround myself with altruistic people.

I have ran into mostly sincere people. In the documentary tonight there was a part that I find pretty funny. One little punk who said he was offended by the display come outside cussing and saying "he didn't like that lovely human Christian stuff and it was what he expected." Then he goes on to say that he has gay friends and they would be offended too yet he just used a slur against gay people. It had me scratching my head as I continued to watch him cuss this minister out and flip him off. The entire time the minister never got upset or raised his voice. He said "each person has a decision to make on whether or not they want to believe as we do. If they don't then that is their prerogative and they have the right to not believe. However, he said that he understood the kids point of view, but that he should look at the scripture that their hellhouse is based on." The kid pretty much backed down and seemed almost apologetic but then he received a second wind and went back to cussing and walked off and said "I need a cigarette." To me the kid was guilty of what he was accusing the minster of being. He went their to argue and cram his beliefs down their throats and was a bigot to boot.

It really amazed me how calm the minister remained and that the end of the scene he said he hopes the kid can become happy one day. You could tell that he was really genuine.

well, just keep in mind that not all atheists are like that... he's in a small minority, just like the fundies are a small minority of the christian population.

The problem, for both sides, is that the militantly ignorant / closed minded minorities are the loudest ones.

yup, i totally agree. i really think that in order for human civilization to advance, it will at some point, need to address this issue of how fanatics are created and how to avoid doing that in future generations. personally, i think a lot of it has to do with a healthy, loving upbringing, good education, and being taught to respect others.