A sample of how 'hard' teachers have it

[her209]

Same. My father just retired as a high school principal after 30+ yrs. He worked year round. Every job he ever looked at moving to was year round. Even the grade/middle school ones. On top of that, administrators are required to attend school athletic events. Summer was filled with follow up work from previous year, prep work for coming year. Setting up schedules, etc.. And before you say "yeah, but that's a high school", he just spent 3 weeks as a substitute at a middle school for a principal that was on maternity leave.

It's year round.

Sounds like the school is a year round school district. Either that, or he was on a summer contract for summer school and getting additional pay on top of the regular school year contract.

 

[Pens1566]

Sounds like the school is a year round school district. Either that, or he was on a summer contract for summer school and getting additional pay on top of the regular school year contract.

No and no. School year goes usually from day after labor day to first or second week in june (depending on # of days lost to weather). One 260 day contract that covers all year. No bonus/extra pay.

 

[HomerJS]

Not sure you are helping yourself out...

page 53: Persons employed as teach- ers were less likely to work in June, July, and August than during other months of the year.
Page 53: average teacher worked less than 40 hours a week...
Page 54: Thirty percent of teachers worked at home on an average day
Page 55: Teachers employed full time worked 24 fewer minutes per weekday and 42 fewer min- utes per Saturday than other full-time professionals.

So what exactly were you trying to prove? That teachers are less likely to work during the summer, work less than 40 hours a week and work less hours at home than the typical professional... :hmm:

24 min in a day doesn't really prove much.

Schools are closed during the summer and teachers have off but Jun 85% work, July 50% work and Aug 70% work

Teachers more likely then other professions to take work to do home

Teachers more likely to work Sunday then other professions. Sat is comparable

So if you add it all up teacher work hours/habits are pretty comparable to other professions

 

[PrinceofWands]

Thats not nice.

And the only thing an IQ score represents is the ability to score well on an IQ test.

He doesn't deserve nice. And no, IQ represents general intelligence, and does it fairly well.

 

[bfdd]

P&N Fingermen are at it again.

You are nothing more than pathetic goons, looking to vilify one of the things which threatens the parties that seek to gain control; education.

I would ask you go teach children, but that means you may have to come in contact with some "ethnics". Go back to your bunkers and re-arrange your canned foods, check your fresh water supply and continue waiting for when "the wall comes down".

you're such an intolerant fuck.

 

[darkewaffle]

I read the first page and ProfJohn is a pretty dumb guy is my only conclusion.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Exactly.

I have friends making teacher pay (45-55k a year) working 45-55 hours a week EVERY week year round (2 weeks vacation and holidays off of course)

If you look at hours worked vs pay teachers do very well in most cases.

Doesn't mean that I would rush off to teach in the bad part of town, but teaching in any of the schools near where I live would probably be a better life style than my current career offers. (similar pay with a hell of a lot more time off plus you can be home by 4pm every day if you need too.)

No one is stopping you from becoming a teacher...

 

[ShawnD1]

Aye. Two of my friends became teachers and anyone who think teachers have it easy is a moron. They have to deal with far more shit anyone else I know.

Tell your friends to do everything the form of multiple choice Scantron tests. It will save them HOURS of marking because it's all done by a machine.

Multiple choice tests can be crazy if done properly. In university, the chromatography instructor had the most brutal multiple choice tests. Every single question would have about 3 good sounding answers then "A and C" then "all of the above" and "none of the above". All of them were equally likely. There's no way anyone would get above 50% unless they really knew the course material.

He doesn't deserve nice. And no, IQ represents general intelligence, and does it fairly well.

Only one type of intelligence. Having charisma and the ability to bullshit people is a type of intelligence that can't be measured with a paper and pencil. Woz and Jobs were the founders of Apple computers. Woz had the paper and pencil skills, Jobs has the bullshitter skills. Arguably, Jobs is the reason the company took off and became worth millions in just a few years.

 

[bfdd]

No one is stopping you from becoming a teacher...

You do realize there are barriers to entrance right? Degrees, certifications, etc? One cannot simply "go be a teacher". It's a processes that takes awhile and if the risk/reward isn't there then why do it? I wouldn't mind being a teacher, but I make similar money, working similar amount of hours and I have less stress. I would gladly take the job of a teacher if I needed a job, I just don't.

Teachers are awesome, but some of you glorify them way to much. It's just a fucking job, just like being a soldier is. They signed up to do.

 

[Ausm]

You do realize there are barriers to entrance right? Degrees, certifications, etc? One cannot simply "go be a teacher". It's a processes that takes awhile and if the risk/reward isn't there then why do it? I wouldn't mind being a teacher, but I make similar money, working similar amount of hours and I have less stress. I would gladly take the job of a teacher if I needed a job, I just don't.

Teachers are awesome, but some of you glorify them way to much. It's just a fucking job, just like being a soldier is. They signed up to do.

And I think that is why the Right wants them to make minimum wage to "keep them in their place"

 

[cwjerome]

O RLY? I'm basing my information from a family member who works in the HR department of a school district that handles the hiring for all positions in the school district.

That's interesting, admin jobs in my district are 12 month and assistant principals start out at around $65,000 to $75,000 depending on experience and education.

Other people posting about teachers making $100,000 or $142,000 just blows my mind. A teacher with a doctorate and 30 years tops out at $75,000 in my district. Crazy.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Why all the teacher hate? I don't get it.

<--- Walker supporter

 

[postaled]

Sounds like the school is a year round school district. Either that, or he was on a summer contract for summer school and getting additional pay on top of the regular school year contract.

I believe all principals are 12 month employees in my district.

 

[cwjerome]

I don't know what you are worth. The best answer is that you are worth whatever you can make.

But I do know that society can't afford to have you work as a teach for 30 years and then retire at 55 and spend the rest of your life making 70% of your salary. (a figure I found online)

Here an example from Illinois
"The salary of Schaumburg High School business education teacher Martin Barski rose from $91,151 to $142,536 in his final years with District 211, district records show. At 55, Barski retired last year with a pension of about $72,000 ...

55 and going to make $72,000 every year for the rest of his life thanks to tax payers.

Do the math...
Assume the guy worked for 30 years at $72k per year on average after inflation
Now he is retired at 55 and lives for 30 more years at $72k per year

So he will have cost the people of Illinois $144k for every year he taught. No way he could be over paid though.... not at all... to even suggest such a thing would be despicable...

Why can't you give me a round figure? Look at my experience, education, and what I do... don't be a coward, how much do YOU think it's worth? Man up.

We can use examples all day to try and make any point you want, up or down, in any situation. If you think any K-12 teacher in Arizona makes more than $100,000 a year, let alone $142,000 you're nuts.

Police, military, fire, etc all make pretty good retirements after 20 or so years, why shouldn't teachers have a decent retirement after 30 years? If you don't value education just come out and say it. If you think there are structural problems with the nature of the education system, then focus on those problems instead of attacking teachers for being lazy and overpaid. You do realize you sound exactly like a sniveling, jealous Lib whining about a businessman's pay, only for you it's teachers.

 

[ShawnD1]

And I think that is why the Right wants them to make minimum wage to "keep them in their place"

The right just wants to destroy the union and pay them what their job is actually worth. The value of your job is determined by supply and demand. The teachers with math degrees would probably be safe, but the ones with English degrees would be screwed. 90 of these 100 applicants want to be English teachers.... how low do you think we can pay them? :hmm:

I have a chem degree. Working as a chemical analyst for a billion dollar company is worth about $16/hour. I'm just as educated as a teacher and there's just as huge a supply of us, but there isn't a union to back us up. That's why I'm not a chemist anymore.

 

[Ausm]

The right just wants to destroy the union and pay them what their job is actually worth. The value of your job is determined by supply and demand. The teachers with math degrees would probably be safe, but the ones with English degrees would be screwed. 90 of these 100 applicants want to be English teachers.... how low do you think we can pay them? :hmm:

I have a chem degree. Working as a chemical analyst for a billion dollar company is worth about $16/hour. I'm just as educated as a teacher and there's just as huge a supply of us, but there isn't a union to back us up. That's why I'm not a chemist anymore.

Can we pay Wall Street barons what they are worth after they tanked the economy?

 

[Nebor]

Can we pay Wall Street barons what they are worth after they tanked the economy?

Sure. Stop valuing their services so highly.

 

[Nebor]

I have a chem degree. Working as a chemical analyst for a billion dollar company is worth about $16/hour. I'm just as educated as a teacher and there's just as huge a supply of us, but there isn't a union to back us up. That's why I'm not a chemist anymore.

I dated a dirty hippy chemist that went to UCSD and every oil\gas company in the country was competing to hire her straight out of school with a 6 figure salary and moving expenses.

 

[cwjerome]

I keep seeing that claim, I wish someone would offer some proof as to how much time they spend in these classes a year.

BTW you realize that the typical college course only meets for what... 45 hours? Maybe less depending on the class. 3 hours a week for 15 weeks isn't exactly skewing the hour total...

Now you're just starting to be a shmuck for shmuck's sake. Rarely have I seen someone nit-pick over basic, common knowledge. Every state has educational requirements for re-certification. Districts often have their own internal requirements on top of that. Do some research if you're that skeptical.

How many jobs out there require advanced education just to continue in the profession, almost always on the worker's dime? In case you haven't checked recently, a graduate degree can cost you between $10,000-$20,000. And maybe you've never taken a graduate class, but 3 hours a week is just being in class, while another 3-6 hours is common for readings and assignments... and doing this with the full-time job and life's responsibilities.

I'm not glorifying anything, I'm just presenting a much fairer picture than your general ignorance on the subject.

 

[ShawnD1]

We can use examples all day to try and make any point you want, up or down, in any situation. If you think any K-12 teacher in Arizona makes more than $100,000 a year, let alone $142,000 you're nuts.

He said that included the value of pension. Government pensions are amazingly good. If you can ever be a government employee, do it.
Suppose you dick around for a couple years before going back to college. You graduate at 25 and be a teacher. After 30 years of service, you get full pension, so that would be age 55. Average American lives to roughly 80, so you could be on pension for about 25 years. My dad has one of those full pension deals since he was a government worker (not a teacher) and it's a really sweet deal.

Police, military, fire, etc all make pretty good retirements after 20 or so years, why shouldn't teachers have a decent retirement after 30 years? If you don't value education just come out and say it. If you think there are structural problems with the nature of the education system, then focus on those problems instead of attacking teachers for being lazy and overpaid. You do realize you sound exactly like a sniveling, jealous Lib whining about a businessman's pay, only for you it's teachers.

Police, military, and fire pensions are why governments are going bankrupt like crazy. It was anticipated that the guy would get paid $50k per year then die within a couple years of retirement, so the total cost of the employee was $50k. It turns out people live really damn long these days so now those employees retroactively cost about $100k per year. That's obviously a major concern. That would be like if you bought a car for $5k thinking it was all good, but the car is actually broken and you need to pump another $5k into it just to make it work properly. Even though the sticker price was $5k, saying the true cost of it was $10k would be more accurate.

 

[ShawnD1]

Can we pay Wall Street barons what they are worth after they tanked the economy?

Start a blog and post their home addresses. Problem solved

(idea stolen from a religious pro-life group linked to the murder of several abortion doctors)

 

[PrinceofWands]

Tell your friends to do everything the form of multiple choice Scantron tests. It will save them HOURS of marking because it's all done by a machine.

Multiple choice tests can be crazy if done properly. In university, the chromatography instructor had the most brutal multiple choice tests. Every single question would have about 3 good sounding answers then "A and C" then "all of the above" and "none of the above". All of them were equally likely. There's no way anyone would get above 50% unless they really knew the course material.



Only one type of intelligence. Having charisma and the ability to bullshit people is a type of intelligence that can't be measured with a paper and pencil. Woz and Jobs were the founders of Apple computers. Woz had the paper and pencil skills, Jobs has the bullshitter skills. Arguably, Jobs is the reason the company took off and became worth millions in just a few years.

No shit sherlock, and that's why Intelligence is Intelligence, and Charisma is Charisma. The ability to 'bullshit people' isn't either, it's immorality, which is the prime requisite for business people.

 

[cwjerome]

He said that included the value of pension. Government pensions are amazingly good. If you can ever be a government employee, do it.
Suppose you dick around for a couple years before going back to college. You graduate at 25 and be a teacher. After 30 years of service, you get full pension, so that would be age 55. Average American lives to roughly 80, so you could be on pension for about 25 years. My dad has one of those full pension deals since he was a government worker (not a teacher) and it's a really sweet deal.

Police, military, and fire pensions are why governments are going bankrupt like crazy. It was anticipated that the guy would get paid $50k per year then die within a couple years of retirement, so the total cost of the employee was $50k. It turns out people live really damn long these days so now those employees retroactively cost about $100k per year. That's obviously a major concern. That would be like if you bought a car for $5k thinking it was all good, but the car is actually broken and you need to pump another $5k into it just to make it work properly. Even though the sticker price was $5k, saying the true cost of it was $10k would be more accurate.

What you said is common knowledge. What you're implying is government workers should either be paid less or receive much smaller retirement dollars. I'll just go on record as disagreeing with you in general, and believe wasteful spending is not so much the result of overpaid salaries of police, military, fire, and teachers.

EDIT: I'll amend my post for clarity. I do believe thrift savings, 401s, etc are a better model than the old style pension and would not be opposed to their introduction in these areas.

 

[ProfJohn]

Compared to what Corp CEO's make, their counterparts in education make pennies to their billions.

Then maybe they should become CEOs.

The way the left makes it sound being a CEO and making millions is easy.

 

[ProfJohn]

24 min in a day doesn't really prove much.

Schools are closed during the summer and teachers have off but Jun 85% work, July 50% work and Aug 70% work

Teachers more likely then other professions to take work to do home

Teachers more likely to work Sunday then other professions. Sat is comparable

So if you add it all up teacher work hours/habits are pretty comparable to other professions

Next time just stick your fingers in your ears and go "nananana I'm not listening"

These two stats seem to refute every argument made about how much teachers work compared to other PROFESSIONALS.

According to YOUR link they work less hours than other professionals and are FAR less likely to work during June, July and August.

So now we have two source right from the BLS that suggest that teachers work less and earn more per hour than other professionals.


page 53: Persons employed as teach- ers were less likely to work in June, July, and August than during other months of the year.
Page 55: Teachers employed full time worked 24 fewer minutes per weekday and 42 fewer min- utes per Saturday than other full-time professionals.