A sample of how 'hard' teachers have it

[ProfJohn]

Nope, average American worker makes $46,000+/yr. But keep trolling that boat!

But that doesn't mean that the person at that point is working 33 hours a week.

Keep in mind that the number of part employees is going to drag the average hours worked WAY down.

Find a study of people BA degrees and then we can make a good comparison.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'll provide them when you provide a study that shows how much harder teachers have it than any other job.

Jesus Christ we got soldiers getting shot and killed in Obama's war on brown people and do we see .000001% of the complaining from them? My god.. you'd think by the way teachers act they are throwing themselves on grenades to save students lives.

If the job sucks so bad, quit.. there are 20 people waiting to take your job.

Obamas war? I think all that fat has gone to your head.

 

[MovingTarget]

This is no surprise here but I agree with PJ. Teachers are perhaps the biggest bunch of whiners on the planet. As PJ so eloquently pointed out, corporate white collar America is routinely asked to work WELL over 40 hours per week. They have to deal with demanding assholes for customers like anyone else. They are often required to be available 24/7 on call. They often go home and fire up their laptops and work into the night.

Boo-Fucking-Hoo. Got to correct some papers.. OMG, so stressful. Have to coach some intramural team.. OMG.. so tough. You have bulletproof job protections, you often pay little to nothing for your retirement and healthcare, and you can retire well before age 65, cash out your sick days and get an even bigger payment. Got to buy some pen and papers for the kids? I've bought all sorts of stuff I need to do my jobs.. books to help me learn new products/technologies, a bigger monitor for at home because my company won't provide me one for my laptop, training classes, clothes and suits to meet with customers, etc.. Stop whining.

As for those calling out PJ saying 'You don't know what we do so STFU'.. then the same goes for YOU.. You don't know what non-government working Americans have to put up with.. you have NO idea what its like to not have ANY retirement except for the money you put in and watching it all slip away as the stock market tanks. You could be let go at any moment for almost any reason and you have no way of 'filing a grievance'. You get to work at 7, leave at 7pm, then go home and work for a couple more hours with no overtime, no comp time, etc.

Everyone's job sucks for the most part right now. Everyone is being expected to take on more and more projects, everyone is getting paid less, being appreciated less, etc.

Suck it up, the rest of us do. Or quit and find a new job.. there is no shortage of teachers and its not wonder why people line up for the job.. it isn't because they are such wonderful caring people.. its because the job isn't that difficult, has great benefits, and honestly doesn't require a rocket scientist to do.

PJ was wrong in his assessment of what teachers do and how much time they spend doing it. You have taken that wrongness to a new level. I called out PJ because he was wrong, but at least PJ is somewhat open to what others say. I can honestly say that there isn't one single thing in your post that applies to me or any of my colleagues.

Is it that hard? Yes.

Bulletproof job protections? Hardly. Besides, not all of us teach in the public systems. See my previous post about firing teachers. Dealing with the union (if there is one) is the least of your real concerns.

Grading papers not stressful as any other corporate job? Bullshit. It sucks your time, sucks your soul, and is every bit as difficult as any private sector job. Hell, I worked in IT for a while troubleshooting corporate systems before I got my masters in math and started teaching. Teaching is loads more difficult. Even doing phone support is less stressful depending on the class.

Benefits? I have a 401k, thats it. A small percentage of what my salary would be is contributed by the company, but no matching. Thats it. Sure, we have medical, but schools are notorious as breeding grounds for illness. Teachers really are on the front lines of any epidemic, from the stomach flu to the common cold to what-have-you. You have to have an industrial-grade immune system to stay as healthy as the average worker. And sick days? We can accumulate up to 90, but we can't cash them out. Personal days do not accumulate - use 'em or lose 'em.

You know, maybe you'd have an argument about salary if we did much better during the boom times, but oh yeah, we didn't see that kind of boom that corporate America did. We sucked it up when the rest of America was gourging themselves on an unprecedented binge of greed.

 

[Fear No Evil]

If you look at the level of vitriol being spouted in this thread you can tell PJ is on to something. People don't get this angry and bitter over something they know is untrue. If someone calls you a alcoholic and you aren't you generally laugh and ignore it. When you call someone an alcoholic who then freaks out, starts screaming yelling name calling and denying it while frothing at the mouth.. guess what? There was probably some truth to it.

 

[ProfJohn]

You must have been asleep during your great Northern education.

That is what I get for not proof reading.

I think I have some type of typing dyslexia too. Will type something and then read it and be like "WTF was I trying to say"

 

[Red Dawn]

If you look at the level of vitriol being spouted in this thread you can tell PJ is on to something. People don't get this angry and bitter over something they know is untrue. If someone calls you a alcoholic and you aren't you generally laugh and ignore it. When you call someone an alcoholic who then freaks out, starts screaming yelling name calling and denying it while frothing at the mouth.. guess what? There was probably some truth to it.

Something you'd know about?

 

[First]

But that doesn't mean that the person at that point is working 33 hours a week.

Keep in mind that the number of part employees is going to drag the average hours worked WAY down.

Slow down there Columbo; since the converse is also true, that professionals working 60-80 hr weeks also skews said results in the opposite direction, your point is entirely moot. And I mean entirely, as in you don't have a leg to stand on.

Find a study of people BA degrees and then we can make a good comparison.

You're going to deny the results anyway so why pretend citing a study will change your mind, lol.

Oh, average private U.S. hrs for those who are curious: http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceshighlights.pdf

 

[First]

If you look at the level of vitriol being spouted in this thread you can tell PJ is on to something. People don't get this angry and bitter over something they know is untrue. If someone calls you a alcoholic and you aren't you generally laugh and ignore it. When you call someone an alcoholic who then freaks out, starts screaming yelling name calling and denying it while frothing at the mouth.. guess what? There was probably some truth to it.

Indeed, who can argue with this purely correlational logic. Bravo Kool-Aid.

 

[ProfJohn]

Grading papers not stressful as any other corporate job? Bullshit. It sucks your time, sucks your soul, and is every bit as difficult as any private sector job. Hell, I worked in IT for a while troubleshooting corporate systems before I got my masters in math and started teaching. Teaching is loads more difficult. Even doing phone support is less stressful depending on the class.

I am with you 100% on that.

Spent time as an english tutor. (my actual writing is amazing compared to typing in a forum real fast)

And I have to say that trying to help college kids who can't write figure out their english problems was very challenging mentally. Especially the ESL student. NOTHING worse than helping an asian who writes like the asian stereotype and try to explain to them how to write proper english.

For most people you can say "you don't speak like this so why would you write like this" but them it is a totally different ball game. At least they were cute, should offered some one-on-one time

 

[JSt0rm]

I wanna know what job pj has. He has mad freetime, sitting on these forums 17 hours a day. Probably collecting unemployment.

 

[MovingTarget]

PJ, I know you place most of the blame on Unions, but most teachers will likely agree that they need serious reform. Unions still do provide essential protections for teachers even if in many cases they do go too far. Lets not make this about union vs. nonunion. We would still be facing a serious retirement problem without unions. Most governments planned badly for the retirement of their workers, and now we're left to clean up the mess.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Thank you, your agreeing with ProJo just proves how out of touch he is.

It's not that their job is tough, they are willing to do it. It's that animals like you, Projo and the rest of the Republican party have singled them out. What they do is multitudes more important to society than what either of you do.

Seriously? The guy who is too lazy to go out and get a full time job is going to be judging us on what we provide to society? At least we are out there paying our own way.. not sucking off disability checks, unemployment, social security, or whatever bullshit excuse you have because you once got a hangnail while pounding a nail in and got too depressed to work any more.

Of course if ethugging were a paying job you would be a millionaire. I guess if there is one group that is an even bigger whiner than the teachers is people like you who do nothing but insult others while sitting at home blaming Bush and the Republicans for why nobody will hire you and wanting to cut off your free money.

 

[ProfJohn]

You're going to deny the results anyway so why pretend citing a study will change your mind, lol.

Oh, average private U.S. hrs for those who are curious: http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceshighlights.pdf

I already posted a graph from the same source that shows that teachers make a little more per hour than people with similar education levels.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I'll provide them when you provide a study that shows how much harder teachers have it than any other job.

Jesus Christ we got soldiers getting shot and killed in Obama's war on brown people and do we see .000001% of the complaining from them? My god.. you'd think by the way teachers act they are throwing themselves on grenades to save students lives.

If the job sucks so bad, quit.. there are 20 people waiting to take your job.

I never said they had it worse. I just said neither was it easy.

Oh, and I believe you mean W's war on brown people?

 

[JSt0rm]

Slow down there Columbo;

 

[MovingTarget]

I am with you 100% on that.

Spent time as an english tutor. (my actual writing is amazing compared to typing in a forum real fast)

And I have to say that trying to help college kids who can't write figure out their english problems was very challenging mentally. Especially the ESL student. NOTHING worse than helping an asian who writes like the asian stereotype and try to explain to them how to write proper english.

For most people you can say "you don't speak like this so why would you write like this" but them it is a totally different ball game. At least they were cute, should offered some one-on-one time

I can see that. ESL students can be a challenge. I see it from the opposite perspective though. Even though they don't understand English very well in some cases, math translates really well.

 

[PrinceofWands]

If you look at the level of vitriol being spouted in this thread you can tell PJ is on to something. People don't get this angry and bitter over something they know is untrue. If someone calls you a alcoholic and you aren't you generally laugh and ignore it. When you call someone an alcoholic who then freaks out, starts screaming yelling name calling and denying it while frothing at the mouth.. guess what? There was probably some truth to it.

OR it's people freaking out over stupidity. I treat all ignorance the same...it's offensive to me.

 

[ProfJohn]

PJ, I know you place most of the blame on Unions, but most teachers will likely agree that they need serious reform. Unions still do provide essential protections for teachers even if in many cases they do go too far. Lets not make this about union vs. nonunion. We would still be facing a serious retirement problem without unions. Most governments planned badly for the retirement of their workers, and now we're left to clean up the mess.

We are beyond being a mess.

We are screwed. Sad, but the truth.

Unions and their close relationship with Democrats are a huge part of the problem. For year the unions gave to Democrats and the Democrats gave back through cushy contracts. And now the bills are coming due and it aint pretty.

Just look at GM and see what happens when your have too generous of retirement packages.

 

[gotsmack]

A few of my classmates who became teachers have enjoyed some longer breaks, but many take that time to write / improve lesson plans, attend classes to further their education, and/or run summer programs at schools.

Being a teacher is a hard, thankless job. There's no respect for your time, no respect for your skill, and no respect for how hard you work for so little.

So is mining coal. Both professions know that they are getting into before starting, so no crying.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I never said they had it worse. I just said neither was it easy.

Oh, and I believe you mean W's war on brown people?

W isn't the President anymore. Try to keep up here.

 

[ProfJohn]

I can see that. ESL students can be a challenge. I see it from the opposite perspective though. Even though they don't understand English very well in some cases, math translates really well.

Thank god you are a math teacher

 

[First]

I already posted a graph from the same source that shows that teachers make a little more per hour than people with similar education levels.

Except it's flawed since BLS openly admits not including additional hrs worked outside of campus.

Durrrr.

 

[Red Dawn]

Seriously? The guy who is too lazy to go out and get a full time job is going to be judging us on what we provide to society? At least we are out there paying our own way.. not sucking off disability checks, unemployment, social security, or whatever bullshit excuse you have because you once got a hangnail while pounding a nail in and got too depressed to work any more.

Of course if ethugging were a paying job you would be a millionaire. I guess if there is one group that is an even bigger whiner than the teachers is people like you who do nothing but insult others while sitting at home blaming Bush and the Republicans for why nobody will hire you and wanting to cut off your free money.

I get no free money, I earn everything I get. I'm also not depressed but if I were like you, 6' 300+ lbs, I probably would be very depressed over how funny I looked and trust me, you look tragically ridiculous.

Granted I can't afford to go to all you can eat buffets every night like you can but then I'll probably live to be at least 70, something that seems very unlikely for you given to slovenly condition you are in.

 

[MovingTarget]

Thank god you are a math teacher

Damn skippy!

I really should proofread my posts on occasion though.

ProfJohn, I hereby tip my hat to you for grammar pwnage. I deserved that one, and likely many more.

 

[PrinceofWands]

W isn't the President anymore. Try to keep up here.

The wars were started 7 October 2001 under George W Bush you 65IQ piece of ignorant lying dog shit.