A sample of how 'hard' teachers have it

[Engineer]

Bullshit!

That McDonalds job is going to require 45-50 hours a week every week for 50 weeks a year.

Compared to 50 hours a week for 9 months a year.

A 45-50 hour week is pretty much standard for white collar employees these days. So the typical working making similar pay as a teacher is working as many hours a week as a teacher and doesn't get 14 weeks off a year.

They can get a new job as a teacher since it's so easy and so well paid and get out of the rat race that is McDonalds, eh?

 

[ProfJohn]

PJ should see the sweet contracts that are offered to the higher ups.

You talking 12 month employees?

They don't have it nearly as good.

My sister was offered a 12 month job as director or coordinator of what she does now and turned it down. She didn't think the extra money was worth the time off she would have to give up.

 

[K1052]

Exactly.

I have friends making teacher pay (45-55k a year) working 45-55 hours a week EVERY week year round (2 weeks vacation and holidays off of course)

If you look at hours worked vs pay teachers do very well in most cases.

Doesn't mean that I would rush off to teach in the bad part of town, but teaching in any of the schools near where I live would probably be a better life style than my current career offers. (similar pay with a hell of a lot more time off plus you can be home by 4pm every day if you need too.)

So basically you'd be fine doing a half-assed job for a bunch of middle class/upper middle class white kids who probably won't stab you on the way to your car if you put them into detention.

Carry on brave soul.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Rather than repost everything I just said:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2185449&page=2

That more or less takes care of most of what pj spewed. Think they're underpaid, well-paid, or overpaid, at least base it on REALITY rather than ignorant blather.

What pj, I kicked your ass over there so you thought you'd try your crap here instead? Really?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Exactly.

I have friends making teacher pay (45-55k a year) working 45-55 hours a week EVERY week year round (2 weeks vacation and holidays off of course)

If you look at hours worked vs pay teachers do very well in most cases.

Doesn't mean that I would rush off to teach in the bad part of town, but teaching in any of the schools near where I live would probably be a better life style than my current career offers. (similar pay with a hell of a lot more time off plus you can be home by 4pm every day if you need too.)

Then go do it. I want you to do it for 3 years at an average public school and then report back to us on rather it was better or not. I don't think it would be much worse for most people, but neither is it a cakewalk. Especially if the dice come up craps and you're the one fighting off a vindictive students sexual abuse lawsuit, or defending your job against a high school dropout parent who objects to how you're educating their precious snowflake.

 

[Attic]

ProJo is willing to back up his claims with factual information, he's not using emotionally charged first hand accounts that are like bringing a water gun to a pistol fight for anyone who takes the discussion seriously.

I'm sure most teachers work extremely hard and put in after hours, but truth is so does everybody who struggles to make a living. Using this type of "fluff" to disregard the large amount of extra time off teachers are given in the discussion of their compensation is ridiculous.

The first hand accounts you are all sharing is touching in a molesting kind of manner to the discussion.

 

[Balt]

Heh. I used to think being a teacher would be okay. Then I had to prepare a 15 minute lecture and I realized how long it freaking takes to actually fill 15 minutes with something both informative and interesting. Then you have to prepare tests, grade tests, deal with kids. They couldn't pay me enough, to be honest. I hate jobs where you have to take your work home with you, and a lot of what teachers do has to be prepared outside of the classroom.

 

[her209]

You talking 12 month employees?

They don't have it nearly as good.

My sister was offered a 12 month job as director or coordinator of what she does now and turned it down. She didn't think the extra money was worth the time off she would have to give up.

I'm including the 12-month employees but I'm more focused on the Principals and Vice Principals. They clear 100k easily in pay alone. They work during the same time as the teachers and aren't obligated to work during the summer vacation.

 

[ProfJohn]

You didn't answer my question on the educational requirements for McDonald's manager....you brought that up now answer it.

You are missing the point.

I was comparing similar salaries.

Entry level teacher $40k
McD assistant manger $40k No degree, but you general need a few years of experience


But as I showed in that chart when you compare teachers to other people with BA degrees they come out okay. Not great, but not bad.

Simply hired says the average college grad makes $46k
http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-college+graduate

That is for a 235 day a year job.

Average teacher is around $40k for 187 day year.

So teachers actually make a little more per day, plus they have better benefits.

 

[sunzt]

Bullshit!

That McDonalds job is going to require 45-50 hours a week every week for 50 weeks a year.

Compared to 50 hours a week for 9 months a year.

A 45-50 hour week is pretty much standard for white collar employees these days. So the typical working making similar pay as a teacher is working as many hours a week as a teacher and doesn't get 14 weeks off a year.

Teachers Work the Same Number of Hours as Average U.S. Worker

As reported by the Wall Street Journal and according to a 2008 report from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), American primary-school educators spend 1,913 hours working a year including hours teachers spend on work at home and outside of the classroom. Data from a Labor Department survey that same year showed that the average full-time employee in the United States worked 1,932 hours spread over 48 weeks. This statistic shows that teachers work about the same number of hours as the average worker in the United States. This statistic refutes the argument that teachers should be paid considerably less than other workers because "teachers only work 9 months of the year." Any effective teacher has always known that is simply not true. The OECD reported that primary-school educators spent 1,097 hours a year teaching in the classroom--the most of any of the 27 members nations tracked. That same report showed the class sizes in the United States were on average the 10th highest of the 31 nations for which this data was reported. According to data from 2006, salaries for teachers in the United States were ranked 12th when adjusted for purchasing power parity and GDP per capita.

http://americansocietytoday.blogspot.com/2011/06/teachers-work-same-number-of-hours-as.html

Any Q?

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Forget that... college professor is where it's at!

- Students are expected to learn
- You teach a few hours per week alongside work or research (you hopefully enjoy)
- Outside of classes, schedule is flex
- Get a TA to do all the grading
- Money!

 

[Engineer]

http://americansocietytoday.blogspot.com/2011/06/teachers-work-same-number-of-hours-as.html

Any Q?

This is nothing more than a union bashing thread. If there were not unions involved, PJ wouldn't say a fucking thing about this subject.

Thanks for the link and information....

/thread

 

[ProfJohn]

Then go do it. I want you to do it for 3 years at an average public school and then report back to us on rather it was better or not. I don't think it would be much worse for most people, but neither is it a cakewalk. Especially if the dice come up craps and you're the one fighting off a vindictive students sexual abuse lawsuit, or defending your job against a high school dropout parent who objects to how you're educating their precious snowflake.

Not sure it would be worth my time investment at this point in my life.

Am nearing the point where salary lost while going to school vs. higher pay won't equal out in the long run. Plus I am on a career path where I can make more long term

BTW if you want me to respond to what you said in other thread then link or quote THAT post. Not going to dig through 7 pages to find what you want me to respond too.

 

[ProfJohn]

http://americansocietytoday.blogspot.com/2011/06/teachers-work-same-number-of-hours-as.html

Any Q?

I think you answered everything right there.

Teachers work the same hours per year and get pay and benefit similar as well.

All is good.


BTW I don't think we should cut their pay. But their benefits are a problem. We can't pay them to work for 25 years and retire at 50 and live off the state the rest of their lives.

 

[MovingTarget]

Reality is the union contract in that link that lays it out right in front of you.

Sure a lot of teachers do extra work and do home work and stay late.

But do you really think they are putting in 3 hours a day for everyday of the school year doing that?

And what about the teachers who suck and do exactly what the contract requires?
7 hours a day, 187 days a year and it is nearly impossible to get fired... :hmm:

ProfJohn, kindly STFU about what you think teachers do and don't do. Do you really think that lesson planning, grading, conferencing, extracirricular responsibilities, etc. etc. are a once in a blue moon occurrance for teachers. I assure you, they aren't.

I'm in my third year of teaching and I spend from 7:30-4:30 with students. I'm only required to be there from 7:30-3:30 as per my contract, but any teacher ceasing to work at that time would find themselves out of a job before the quarter is over. The hardest part about firing a teacher isn't the union....its quickly finding someone new to replace them that is qualified, then acclimating them to the particulars of the school/community, having the students/parents adjust, and then hoping that they have the time to teach all the information to the kids that they are required to learn. Firing bad teachers is much easier than those in the media and politics make it out to be.

I routinely spend 12 hour days at school, and THEN take my work home. I spend countless hours grading at home on top of that. I spend my weekends supporting our computer lab because we can't afford a full time IT person. I sponsor certain clubs not out of the goodness of my heart (okay, maybe a little....I am a teacher afterall...), but because I am contractually obligated to. I, along with my entire department, ran the summer math enrichment program for, you guessed it, no increase in pay. It was what those students needed at that point in their lives, so, we did what we had to do.

This is what is expected of a teacher. My colleagues work just as hard as I do. Teachers everywhere do much more than even I do because we have small class sizes by comparison. Many teachers donate a portion of their checks back for things like classroom and student school supplies as well, especially in poorer districts.

And guess what....I can only dream of making the kind of salary and benefits of the OP. I don't begrudge them that, because they damn well earned it. I just happen to live in Alabama, which isn't exactly swimming in money to fund its educational system.

You wouldn't last 5 minutes in any high school. That much is obvious from your posts here. So kindly STFU about our profession. You know nothing.

 

[ProfJohn]

Forget that... college professor is where it's at!

- Students are expected to learn
- You teach a few hours per week alongside work or research (you hopefully enjoy)
- Outside of classes, schedule is flex
- Get a TA to do all the grading
- Money!

Don't forget Co-Eds!

 

[sandorski]

Cluelessly railing against Teachers. Anyone surprised?

 

[Engineer]

I think you answered everything right there.

Teachers work the same hours per year and get pay and benefit similar as well.

All is good.


BTW I don't think we should cut their pay. But their benefits are a problem. We can't pay them to work for 25 years and retire at 50 and live off the state the rest of their lives.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/backpedaling

 

[Fenixgoon]

ProfJohn, kindly STFU about what you think teachers do and don't do. Do you really think that lesson planning, grading, conferencing, extracirricular responsibilities, etc. etc. are a once in a blue moon occurrance for teachers. I assure you, they aren't.

I'm in my third year of teaching and I spend from 7:30-4:30 with students. I'm only required to be there from 7:30-3:30 as per my contract, but any teacher ceasing to work at that time would find themselves out of a job before the quarter is over. The hardest part about firing a teacher isn't the union....its quickly finding someone new to replace them that is qualified, then acclimating them to the particulars of the school/community, having the students/parents adjust, and then hoping that they have the time to teach all the information to the kids that they are required to learn. Firing bad teachers is much easier than those in the media and politics make it out to be.

I routinely spend 12 hour days at school, and THEN take my work home. I spend countless hours grading at home on top of that. I spend my weekends supporting our computer lab because we can't afford a full time IT person. I sponsor certain clubs not out of the goodness of my heart (okay, maybe a little....I am a teacher afterall...), but because I am contractually obligated to. I, along with my entire department, ran the summer math enrichment program for, you guessed it, no increase in pay. It was what those students needed at that point in their lives, so, we did what we had to do.

This is what is expected of a teacher. My colleagues work just as hard as I do. Teachers everywhere do much more than even I do because we have small class sizes by comparison. Many teachers donate a portion of their checks back for things like classroom and student school supplies as well, especially in poorer districts.

And guess what....I can only dream of making the kind of salary and benefits of the OP. I don't begrudge them that, because they damn well earned it. I just happen to live in Alabama, which isn't exactly swimming in money to fund its educational system.

You wouldn't last 5 minutes in any high school. That much is obvious from your posts here. So kindly STFU about our profession. You know nothing.

i would bold the parts that are QFMFT, but that'd be the whole thing.

profjohn, you have no idea what being a teacher is like, so please kindly stfu. i can't begin to tell you how many hours teachers put in outside of the classroom. it really is insanity.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Not sure it would be worth my time investment at this point in my life.

Am nearing the point where salary lost while going to school vs. higher pay won't equal out in the long run. Plus I am on a career path where I can make more long term

BTW if you want me to respond to what you said in other thread then link or quote THAT post. Not going to dig through 7 pages to find what you want me to respond too.

That's funny, since I replied to YOUR posts in that thread, providing the information YOU asked for.

 

[Red Dawn]

You are missing the point.

I was comparing similar salaries.

Entry level teacher $40k
McD assistant manger $40k No degree, but you general need a few years of experience


But as I showed in that chart when you compare teachers to other people with BA degrees they come out okay. Not great, but not bad.

Simply hired says the average college grad makes $46k
http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-college+graduate

That is for a 235 day a year job.

Average teacher is around $40k for 187 day year.

So teachers actually make a little more per day, plus they have better benefits.

It's a real tough occupation and it seems to be the Republicans number 1 target of late. Republicans never question their coporate overlords but they always go after the hard working American who is the real backbone of America.

Calling you scum would be an insult to scum.

 

[ProfJohn]

ProfJohn, kindly STFU about what you think teachers do and don't do. Do you really think that lesson planning, grading, conferencing, extracirricular responsibilities, etc. etc. are a once in a blue moon occurrance for teachers. I assure you, they aren't.

Nicely said.

Hope you enjoy the job and stick with it.

A lot of people say the first 5 years are the worst which is why so many drop out. But eventually they say you get to the point where you out of school time starts to drop.

And of course Alabama means low pay, but also low cost of living.

Question: Do you think you are fairly paid for the job you do and the amount of time you work?

Do you think you could find a similar job in private industry that would give you the amount of time off and benefits you get?

I think the time off is the big attraction. Sure you work a lot of hours during the school year, but then you get 10 weeks off every summer.

 

[Red Dawn]

Nicely said.
Do you think you could find a similar job in private industry that would give you the amount of time off and benefits you get?

I think the time off is the big attraction. Sure you work a lot of hours during the school year, but then you get 10 weeks off every summer.

They are more important to our country than what you do for a living I can assure you that.

 

[ProfJohn]

It's a real tough occupation and it seems to be the Republicans number 1 target of late. Republicans never question their coporate overlords but they always go after the hard working American who is the real backbone of America.

Calling you scum would be an insult to scum.

Perhaps you should read about the good things happening in Wisconsin due to minor changes brought on by the union law.

One school district was looking at laying off 100 teachers this year. But they were able to make some minor changes and make teachers pay for some of their retirement and healthcare and boom NO layoffs!

Another one was in similar situation. $1.5 million deficit. They changed a few rules about time in classroom and hours worked per week and NO deficit and SMALLER classroom size

The left calls for shared sacrifice all the time, but never wants to sacrifice anything themselves.

 

[BeauJangles]

I think the time off is the big attraction. Sure you work a lot of hours during the school year, but then you get 10 weeks off every summer.

A few of my classmates who became teachers have enjoyed some longer breaks, but many take that time to write / improve lesson plans, attend classes to further their education, and/or run summer programs at schools.

Being a teacher is a hard, thankless job. There's no respect for your time, no respect for your skill, and no respect for how hard you work for so little.