900 Catholic Students suspended for not having vaccination records

[Brainonska511]

Here in America we have freedom of choice, freedom of religion. Take your fascism elsewhere. If we're making it illegal to be selfish, we might as well ban your childish namecalling and label it hate speech.

Here in America, your freedom is not infinite. State public health authorities have broad leeway in making vaccinations mandatory.

But there is currently there are no universal mandatory vaccination. It's simply mandatory if you want to attend school. If you don't want to be vaccinated or have your kids vaccinated, you're free to home school.

 

[Rakehellion]

So, what you're saying is, because we don't have vaccines for every illness, people shouldn't be required to be vaccinated against the major diseases for which we do?

It isn't necessary to force anyone to do anything.

I gave unvaccinable illnesses as examples of why it's silly to think an epidemic will happen if vaccine rates fall slightly.

 

[cbrunny]

It isn't necessary to force anyone to do anything.

I gave unvaccinable illnesses as examples of why it's silly to think an epidemic will happen if vaccine rates fall slightly.

you don't really get facts, do you?

 

[abj13]

It isn't necessary to force anyone to do anything.

I gave unvaccinable illnesses as examples of why it's silly to think an epidemic will happen if vaccine rates fall slightly.

Your examples aren't based on anything but ignorance. You don't even recognize all of the various infections cited in this thread have lead to profound effects of their respective populations. Added to it, one infection like measles, is one of the most contagious viruses known to man.

 

[Rakehellion]

This is moronic. Around 1.5 million people die each year of HIV, that is in no way "under control." And this is a virus that is very difficult to transmit (the risk of a health care worker directly injecting blood into him/herself is only 0.4%). At least this is one virus we can manage with daily medications. Ebola killed over 10,000 in a single region in one year. SARS has one of the highest death rates of any viral infection. Swine flu infected millions, ask any healthcare worker the impact of that virus in the 2009 season.

Globally, not in developed countries. The HIV population is 1% in America compared to 20% in some countries. Because a vaccine is not the most important tool in fighting an infection.

A vaccine can save millions of hospitalizations, thousands of medical complications and secondary infections, save thousands of lives

Ad that's exacty what they're doing.

 

[MongGrel]

Here in America we have freedom of choice, freedom of religion. Take your fascism elsewhere. If we're making it illegal to be selfish, we might as well ban your childish namecalling and label it hate speech.

You are just being flat out pathetic at this point.

 

[Rakehellion]

the various infections cited in this thread have lead to profound effects of their respective populations.

And in the populations they didn't affect, what was different?

 

[Rakehellion]

You are just being flat out pathetic at this point.

Hate speech! Help!

No need to throw a hissy fit because we don't agree on things. Try to stay on topic.

 

[abj13]

Because a vaccine is not the most important tool in fighting an infection.

The dumbest statement yet. So we could

1) Utilize a vaccine in a single (or series) to prevent a disease that costs tens of dollars a person.

or

2) Utilize billions of dollars, medical personal, equipment, and facilities to take care of patients who get infected with the virus

Your analysis once again demonstrates how very little you have actually thought about these concepts. Just more stupidity.

 

[MongGrel]

Hate speech! Help!

No need to throw a hissy fit because we don't agree on things. Try to stay on topic.

I'm not throwing a fit.

You are just embarrassing yourself really atm though.

I am on topic, not having your children vaccinated in this day and age they should be excluded from social contact.

Is like saying the earth is flat.

 

[Rakehellion]

I'm not throwing a fit.

You are just embarrassing yourself really atm though.

I am on topic, not having your children vaccinated in this day and age they should be excluded from social contact.

Is like saying the earth is flat.

So you have an absolutist view on a divisive topic. Not good.

 

[MongGrel]

So you have an absolutist view on a divisive topic. Not good.

You seem to be a majority of 1 in your mind.

Or probably about .0000001 of the general population as far as the subject goes.

That is not divisive, it is just moronic.

Have a nice day.

 

[Rakehellion]

The dumbest statement yet. So we could

1) Utilize a vaccine in a single (or series) to prevent a disease that costs tens of dollars a person.

or

2) Utilize billions of dollars, medical personal, equipment, and facilities to take care of patients who get infected with the virus

Your analysis once again demonstrates how very little you have actually thought about these concepts. Just more stupidity.

Ooh, I like how you say tens of dollars in the first scenario vs billions of dollars in the second. Makes it seem like a bigger difference. Very sensationalist, but I think you forgot to label your axes.

So we don't want to put up a billboard for a few dollars to educate people when we can spend millions on vaccines?

How about answering this one?

the various infections cited in this thread have lead to profound effects of their respective populations.

And in the populations they didn't affect, what was different?

 

[abj13]

Ooh, I like how you say tens of dollars in the first scenario vs billions of dollars in the second. Makes it seem like a bigger difference. Very sensationalist, but I think you forgot to label your axes.

So we don't want to put up a billboard for a few dollars to educate people when we can spend millions on vaccines?

Hilarious. So now its about putting up a billboard to prevent diseases?

What's this going to be, titled

DON'T GET SMALLPOX

And in the populations they didn't affect, what was different?

There's many factors. Considering you don't even understand the impact of those diseases on those populations, you aren't even here for an actual discussion. But when you consider the billions of dollars our own medical system used to try to prevent transmission on a poorly contagious virus like Ebola, vaccination would be a highly cost effective intervention.

We are still awaiting for your corrections to your following dumb statements:

The diseases for which vaccines are available are not the most deadly. It's a fallacy of convenience.

Cherry picking. How many vaccinable illnesses are not generally deadly? How many deadly diseases are not vaccinable.

Because a vaccine is not the most important tool in fighting an infection.

So we don't want to put up a billboard for a few dollars to educate people when we can spend millions on vaccines?

What else will you add to this list?

 

[Rakehellion]

Hilarious. So now its about putting up a billboard to prevent diseases?

What's this going to be, titled

DON'T GET SMALLPOX

When you see this, what comes to mind?

Is it telling to to get vaccinated against colon cancer?

Or this:

Get the vaccine against bacteria?

There's many factors.

Such as? You're dodging the question.

But when you consider the billions of dollars our own medical system used to try to prevent transmission on a poorly contagious virus like Ebola, vaccination would be a highly cost effective intervention.

Why do some countries have mass Ebola outbreaks whereas developed countries don't? Why do some countries have mass HIV infections whereas others don't?

 

[abj13]

When you see this, what comes to mind?

Is it telling to to get vaccinated against colon cancer?

Or this:

Get the vaccine against bacteria?

I just want to make sure I have your argument correct. Putting up billboards promoting health interventions is more cost effective than vaccination. That's what your advocating, right? Before I want to assume you'd advocate something so dumb, I want to make sure that's what you're really advocating for.

If so, what billboard will you put up to prevent measles? If contagious virus can hang in the air for hours, how do you prevent that?

Such as? You're dodging the question.

The entire answer is already there in that post and you even quoted it.

Why do some countries have mass Ebola outbreaks whereas developed countries don't? Why do some countries have mass HIV infections whereas others don't?

What is the natural reservoir of Ebola?
What is this "epidemic" of HIV in the United States all about?

Once again, you demonstrate zero understanding of medicine. Why should we spend billions of dollars, man-hours, facilities, medications, time lost in worker hours by the infected individual etc in treating something, when we can prevent it with an inoculation? Vaccines remain one of the greatest medical inventions ever made.

And when will you correct these inane statements:

The diseases for which vaccines are available are not the most deadly. It's a fallacy of convenience.

Cherry picking. How many vaccinable illnesses are not generally deadly? How many deadly diseases are not vaccinable.

Because a vaccine is not the most important tool in fighting an infection.

So we don't want to put up a billboard for a few dollars to educate people when we can spend millions on vaccines?

 

[Rakehellion]

Putting up billboards promoting health interventions is more cost effective than vaccination.

Guess what? You can do both!

99.99% of diseases that affect humanity can't be vaccinated against. Why haven't they wiped us out yet?

If so, what billboard will you put up to prevent measles? If contagious virus can hang in the air for hours, how do you prevent that?

Cherry picking. We're talking about prevention of disease, and you keep pulling measles out of your ass.

What is the natural reservoir of Ebola?
What is this "epidemic" of HIV in the United States all about?

*zip* *ping* Still dodging that question.

The entire answer is already there in that post and you even quoted it.

That's one answer. you said there were "many" factors. Dollars spent on what, exactly?

Billions were not spent on Ebola, by the way. And in America, just a tiny fraction of that.

What is the natural reservoir of Ebola?
What is this "epidemic" of HIV in the United States all about?

Those are questions, not answers. Put that MD to good use.

Once again, you demonstrate zero understanding of medicine. Why should we spend billions of dollars, man-hours, facilities, medications, time lost in worker hours by the infected individual etc in treating something, when we can prevent it with an inoculation?

1. We have vaccines. They're being used.
2. There are other ways to prevent infections. They're being used.
3. All of these methods are not mutually exclusive as you're implying.

Man-hours and facilities? There's no quarantine in America for any of the diseases I've mentioned. Hyperbole.

 

[Strk]

Ooh, I like how you say tens of dollars in the first scenario vs billions of dollars in the second. Makes it seem like a bigger difference. Very sensationalist, but I think you forgot to label your axes.

So we don't want to put up a billboard for a few dollars to educate people when we can spend millions on vaccines?

How about answering this one?

You do realize that all the vaccines kids are given when added up only amount to around 1k-1.5k over their lifetime? I wonder if that is more or less than a hospital visit, round of medication and time from lost work for one ailment?

Your whole argument on cost is complete bullshit. Even one day of calling out from work costs more than most vaccines, let alone doing anything to treat the sick kid.

 

[cbrunny]

Guess what? You can do both!

99.99% of diseases that affect humanity can't be vaccinated against. Why haven't they wiped us out yet?



Cherry picking. We're talking about prevention of disease, and you keep pulling measles out of your ass.



*zip* *ping* Still dodging that question.




That's one answer. you said there were "many" factors. Dollars spent on what, exactly? Billions were not spent on Ebola, by the way.




Those are questions, not answers. Put that MD to good use.



1. We have vaccines. They're being used.
2. There are other ways to prevent infections. They're being used.
3. All of these methods are not mutually exclusive as you're implying.

Good old Sunday afternoon trolling. What a waste.

 

[Rakehellion]

You do realize that all the vaccines kids are given when added up only amount to around 1k-1.5k over their lifetime?

Times millions of children = billions of dollars. Who's paying for it? You?

Even one day of calling out from work costs more than most vaccines, let alone doing anything to treat the sick kid.

You're giving the obtuse oversimplification that a vaccine will keep you from getting sick and no vaccine will make you sick.

 

[abj13]

99.99% of diseases that affect humanity can't be vaccinated against. Why haven't they wiped us out yet?

Because we vaccinate. Remember that time you survived smallpox? Oh yeah, you don't because smallpox vaccination eradicated that disease.

Cherry picking. We're talking about prevention of disease, and you keep pulling measles out of your ass.

Keep trolling. Measles is a highly contagious disease and a vaccine is available. Hundreds of thousands die because of measles each year. This one disease contradicts every BS statement you've said in this thread, and in order to dodge it you claim "cherrypicking." Keep on trolling that boat.

Billions were not spent on Ebola, by the way. And in America, just a tiny fraction of that.

Amazing. You realize every major medical facility in the United States prepared an Ebola action plan, with training, facilities, equipment set aside for potential cases? Nope you did not. You realize the planning the CDC put into place? You do not.

Stop claiming things you have zero understanding of.

1. We have vaccines. They're being used.
2. There are other ways to prevent infections. They're being used.
3. All of these methods are not mutually exclusive as you're implying.

Another off the mark statement. Vaccines are above and beyond the most effective and cost-effective means of intervening on infectious diseases. You still don't seem to grasp the idea of:


1) Utilize a vaccine in a single (or series) to prevent a disease that costs tens of dollars a person.

or

2) Utilize billions of dollars, medical personal, equipment, and facilities to take care of patients who get infected with the virus

We all know you are trolling and aren't here for actual discussion. Go troll somewhere else with your stupidity, because we are still waiting on your correction of statements of:

The diseases for which vaccines are available are not the most deadly. It's a fallacy of convenience.

Cherry picking. How many vaccinable illnesses are not generally deadly? How many deadly diseases are not vaccinable.

Because a vaccine is not the most important tool in fighting an infection.

So we don't want to put up a billboard for a few dollars to educate people when we can spend millions on vaccines?

And I'll ask again

Why should we spend billions of dollars, man-hours, facilities, medications, time lost in worker hours by the infected individual etc in treating something, when we can prevent it with an inoculation?

 

[abj13]

Times millions of children = billions of dollars. Who's paying for it? You?

Who's paying for everyone who gets infected? You? Such absurd statements.

You're giving the obtuse oversimplification that a vaccine will keep you from getting sick and no vaccine will make you sick.

The benefits greatly outweigh the risk of vaccination. Here is the benefits of one vaccine in reducing:

1/10 risk of otitis media
1/10 risk of severe diarrhea
1/20 risk of pneumonia
1/1000 risk of encephalitis
1/1,000,000 risk of SSPE

What is the risk associated with that vaccine?

 

[Strk]

Who's paying for everyone who gets infected? You? Such absurd statements.



The benefits greatly outweigh the risk of vaccination. Here is the benefits of one vaccine in reducing:

1/10 risk of otitis media
1/10 risk of severe diarrhea
1/20 risk of pneumonia
1/1000 risk of encephalitis
1/1,000,000 risk of SSPE

What is the risk associated with that vaccine?

And even if the kid doesn't get any of those complications from the measles, but one of the parents calls out for a day or two to stay home with the kid, cost of getting the MMRV is completely justified.

 

[abj13]

^ Exactly. There are many costs that cannot be calculated.

If anyone is interested, here's the prices that UNICEF purchases the Measles vaccine at:

http://www.unicef.org/supply/files/Measles.pdf

We're talking about 10-50 cents A DOSE.

 

[Rakehellion]

Because we vaccinate. Remember that time you survived smallpox? Oh yeah, you don't because smallpox vaccination eradicated that disease.

How in the hell is this a response to what I said about diseases that can't be vaccinated against?

Hundreds of thousands die because of measles each year.

Only in undeveloped countries. Try that strawman some more.

Amazing. You realize every major medical facility in the United States prepared an Ebola action plan, with training, facilities, equipment set aside for potential cases? Nope you did not. You realize the planning the CDC put into place? You do not.

How many *billions* or dollars was that? How many vaccines did they make again? How many people were randomly tested for Ebola at airports?

1) Utilize a vaccine in a single (or series) to prevent a disease that costs tens of dollars a person.

or

2) Utilize billions of dollars, medical personal, equipment, and facilities to take care of patients who get infected with the virus

False dichotomy.

Why should we spend billions of dollars, man-hours, facilities, medications, time lost in worker hours by the infected individual etc in treating something, when we can prevent it with an inoculation?

False dichotomy.

-There are ways to prevent disease other than vaccines.
-An unvaccinated person is still protected through herd immunity.

You've dodged these two points for the third time in a row. Nice.