9/11 victims angered by bush ads

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: digitalsm
If Bush "lied to us" and to congress who saw exactly what Bush saw.

I've seen people say this lots of times. Is it true?

Absolutely its true...its part of the system of checks and balances in our government.

No, it is not. Only a select few see whole intelligence reports, and they do not see all of the information the President receives. Several Congressmen have said they would NOT have supported the force resolution if they had the whole reports with all the caveats and disclaimers.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
You know what - there was only one individual that stepped up and showed a
leadership capacity in the wake of 9/11 attacks in New York, and is wasn't Bush.

Rudy Guliani kept his composure - clearly under duress, and provided leadership and hope.

Everyone else used it as a photo op to been seen at the site for thier own gain.

To Bush it was a blessed event that he grabbed onto - to elevate his failure, and distract the
country, not unite it, but devide the country and the world into a 'Us versus Them'.

:beer:

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: digitalsm
If Bush "lied to us" and to congress who saw exactly what Bush saw.

I've seen people say this lots of times. Is it true?

Absolutely its true...its part of the system of checks and balances in our government.

No, it is not. Only a select few see whole intelligence reports, and they do not see all of the information the President receives. Several Congressmen have said they would NOT have supported the force resolution if they had the whole reports with all the caveats and disclaimers.

The CIA must inform the Intelligence committee of all activity other than covert actions.

Law regarding Intelligence

You can find more info Here

National Security Act of 1947 is the big one.

 

[Gaard]

Bow, do you know if Kerry was one of these select few? There seems to be at least one member in every 'Kerry' thread who cites the "he saw everything Bush did" phrase...and I'd just like to know if they actually are stating fact or just repeating what they read in another thread.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Gaard
Bow, do you know if Kerry was one of these select few? There seems to be at least one member in every 'Kerry' thread who cites the "he saw everything Bush did" phrase...and I'd just like to know if they actually are stating fact or just repeating what they read in another thread.

As a ranking member of Foreign Relations Committee he most likely was shown everything/

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Gaard
Bow, do you know if Kerry was one of these select few? There seems to be at least one member in every 'Kerry' thread who cites the "he saw everything Bush did" phrase...and I'd just like to know if they actually are stating fact or just repeating what they read in another thread.

As a ranking member of Foreign Relations Committee he most likely was shown everything/

A better question was if he actually showed up to work that day And if he did - did he not read it and go with the popular idea or did he read it and actually agree with it.

CkG

 

[GoPackGo]

A better question was if he actually showed up to work that day And if he did - did he not read it and go with the popular idea or did he read it and actually agree with it.

CkG

Who knows what he truly stands for!

He changes his stance so often its hard to tell.

Plus...if I lived in Mass, I would be ticked that he will be spending a 1 1/2 years running for prez.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Shanti
OK, this feels wrong, but...
RedDawn is NOT narrow minded and is NOT just some liberal bush-hater (think DealMonkey and Pers) who twists everything to make it anti-bush.
He has strong opinions on Iraq and expresses his opinions clearly and with intelligent thought.

Stooping low again, eh Shanti?

Just making sure people know what I mean.

By the way, I'm interested in your response in the Arnold thread. I need a good laugh.

Well, I guess if following me around thread-to-thread calling me names rocks your world, more power to you.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Gaard
Bow, do you know if Kerry was one of these select few? There seems to be at least one member in every 'Kerry' thread who cites the "he saw everything Bush did" phrase...and I'd just like to know if they actually are stating fact or just repeating what they read in another thread.

As a ranking member of Foreign Relations Committee he most likely was shown everything/

They are informed of all intel?

So can we assume that Kerry knows what the solid evidence of WMD was tht Bush said he had back in Dec '02? Wonder if he's sworn to secrecy. ...or maybe he'll share with us what that little tidbit was. After all, it sure caused a stir back then.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Gaard
Bow, do you know if Kerry was one of these select few? There seems to be at least one member in every 'Kerry' thread who cites the "he saw everything Bush did" phrase...and I'd just like to know if they actually are stating fact or just repeating what they read in another thread.

As a ranking member of Foreign Relations Committee he most likely was shown everything/

They are informed of all intel?

So can we assume that Kerry knows what the solid evidence of WMD was tht Bush said he had back in Dec '02? Wonder if he's sworn to secrecy. ...or maybe he'll share with us what that little tidbit was. After all, it sure caused a stir back then.

"The Foreign Relations Committee domain extends to proposed legislation, messages, and other matters relating to foreign policy matters including, treaties and executive agreements; national security; intervention abroad and declarations of war; foreign economic, military, technical, and humanitarian assistance; foreign loans; international conferences, congresses and laws relating to foreign policy; measures to foster and safeguard international commerce, protection of United States citizens abroad and expatriation, U.S. policy toward and participation in international organizations such as the United Nations, International Monetary Fund and the World Bank; and the U.S. diplomatic service. "

from
Source

If that committee drafts the legislation for war and use of force...they better darn well see the real deal.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Gaard
Bow, do you know if Kerry was one of these select few? There seems to be at least one member in every 'Kerry' thread who cites the "he saw everything Bush did" phrase...and I'd just like to know if they actually are stating fact or just repeating what they read in another thread.

As a ranking member of Foreign Relations Committee he most likely was shown everything/

First, there's a difference between the Intelligence committees and the Foreign Relations committees. Intelligence gets to see the most classified stuff.

Second, "inform[ing] the Intelligence committee of all activity other than covert actions" has pretty much nothing to do with the question at hand, i.e., if Congress "saw exactly what Bush saw". According to several Congressmen, the did NOT. You can speculate all you want about what you think the Foreign Relations Committee gets to see, but those opinions have ZERO basis in fact. Congress simply did NOT see everything Bush saw. Period.


Gaard - I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I don't believe Kerry was on the Intelligence Committee. IIRC, Edwards was, and Edwards explicitly stated they did not see all of the same intel Bush did, nor were they participants in Bush's private briefings. Further, much of the mis-intel used by Bush & Co. came from the DIA and Rumsfeld's other DOD, custom neo-con, intelligence-manufacturing ... err ... analysis group. This information was not shared with Congress except in highly-filtered form. (Sorry, their name escapes me at the moment but it has been mentioned in some of the intel-related threads.)

 

[CaptnKirk]

All modern presidents have been severely incompetent, that goes back to pre WWII...

Are you including Saint Reagan in your list of Incompetentcy ? I thought he was.
I witnessed 12 years of his California Governorship - that now Arnold is still trying to fix.

Seems most Repiblicans and Conservative Right want to Cannonize him.
I think he is given credit for things he did not precipitate, like the collapse of the Soviet Union,
but NOT given credit for things that he actually did have an active roll in - like the spread of AIDS across the planet,
when his 'Advisors' convinced him that it was a 'Gay Plague' thing and the punishment of God.

Earlier 'DoubleL' made a statement of my referal to 9/11 as Bush's 'Blessed Event'.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bush Himself tell the world that he had
"Talked with God - and God told Him to smite them"
That is when he was called by the Lord to lead a'Merica into the New Crusades.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Abbas said that at Aqaba, Bush promised to speak with Sharon about the siege on Arafat.
He said nobody can speak to or pressure Sharon except the Americans.

According to Abbas, immediately thereafter Bush said: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them,
and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East.
If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Funny how some minds work ain't it ?

 

[heartsurgeon]

Schaitberger [Union leader critical of Bush]...said his union is politically independent even though it endorsed Kerry

only a Bush-Hating Uber-Liberal could make a statement that blatantly bizarre with a straight face. You've got to be an utter moron to believe anything this dolt claims. You've got to question the ethics of the author of the article to have chosen this partisan hack to interview.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
<STRONG>All modern presidents have been severely incompetent, that goes back to pre WWII...</STRONG>

Are you including Saint Reagan in your list of Incompetentcy ? I thought he was.
I witnessed 12 years of his California Governorship - that now Arnold is still trying to fix.

Seems most Repiblicans and Conservative Right want to Cannonize him.
I think he is given credit for things he did not precipitate, like the collapse of the Soviet Union,
but NOT given credit for things that he actually did have an active roll in - like the spread of AIDS across the planet,
when his 'Advisors' convinced him that it was a 'Gay Plague' thing and the punishment of God.

Earlier 'DoubleL' made a statement of my referal to 9/11 as Bush's 'Blessed Event'.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bush Himself tell the world that he had
<STRONG>"Talked with God - and God told Him to smite them"
</STRONG>That is when he was called by the Lord to lead a'Merica into the New Crusades.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<STRONG>"Abbas said that at Aqaba, Bush promised to speak with Sharon about the siege on Arafat.
He said nobody can speak to or pressure Sharon except the Americans. </STRONG>

<STRONG>According to Abbas, immediately thereafter Bush said: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them,
and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East.
If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
</STRONG>Funny how some minds work ain't it ?

Are you drunk?
Normally you make fairly logical arguments (although with a hint of conspiracy theorist), but you seem to have gone off the deep end today.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
You know what - there was only one individual that stepped up and showed a
leadership capacity in the wake of 9/11 attacks in New York, and is wasn't Bush.

Rudy Guliani kept his composure - clearly under duress, and provided leadership and hope.

Everyone else used it as a photo op to been seen at the site for thier own gain.

To Bush it was a blessed event that he grabbed onto - to elevate his failure, and distract the
country, not unite it, but devide the country and the world into a 'Us versus Them'.

it appears kirk has already been beamed up, because he is obviously on another planet.

Nope, that's how I remember it too. Kirk is spot on. Perhaps you're one of those historical revisionists I keep hearing about?

i was in the tech shop today and heard a song that made me think of you..here are a few words:

"these rose colored glasses...that i am loooking through..show only the the beauty..."

i remember the dems using it almost from day one to somehow blame bush for it, then in the height of hypocrasy try to criticize bush for using 911 for political gain(hoping no one is smart enough to notice that is what they are doing). just as the dems on this board are now doing.

 

[CaptnKirk]

There is an old saying about 'Ignorance is Bliss'
I'll leave you guys to your blissful opinions of Bush.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
i was in the tech shop today and heard a song that made me think of you..here are a few words:

"these rose colored glasses...that i am loooking through..show only the the beauty..."

i remember the dems using it almost from day one to somehow blame bush for it, then in the height of hypocrasy try to criticize bush for using 911 for political gain(hoping no one is smart enough to notice that is what they are doing). just as the dems on this board are now doing.

Look, I don't know what you're talking about, because clearly Kirk had it right. Rudy Giuliani showed real leadership, courage and dignified compassion while he tried to rally his city at the very heart of ground zero. The rest of the gov't, including Bush, went into hiding in their secret bunkers, or by flying air force one is some circuitous route across America, or by disappearing to an undisclosed location. You, and some of the others with lips firmly planted to Bush's posterior, seem to be the ones with the rose colored glasses on.

Next, we'll probably hear about how the "mighty Bush" wrestled the terrorists single-handed, marched on Kabul with only a survival knife clamped between his teeth, and then led the coalition troops right to Saddam's spider-hole, where he arm wrestled Hussein for control of Iraq. What a larger-than-life figure our president is! Truly the Hemmingway of our generation!

 

[Oneness]

What's even more dispicable is that Bush is scheduling a visit to Ground Zero during the NYC GOP Convention. All this while sidestepping the inquiry commission at every turn, including of course, his administration's adamant efforts to stop the commission from ever being formed in the first place! I plan to join the other million citizens that will be decending on NYC during the GOP convention to protest his decision to use Ground Zero and the events of 9/11 for his own personal and political gains.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
i was in the tech shop today and heard a song that made me think of you..here are a few words:

"these rose colored glasses...that i am loooking through..show only the the beauty..."

i remember the dems using it almost from day one to somehow blame bush for it, then in the height of hypocrasy try to criticize bush for using 911 for political gain(hoping no one is smart enough to notice that is what they are doing). just as the dems on this board are now doing.

Look, I don't know what you're talking about, because clearly Kirk had it right. Rudy Giuliani showed real leadership, courage and dignified compassion while he tried to rally his city at the very heart of ground zero. The rest of the gov't, including Bush, went into hiding in their secret bunkers, or by flying air force one is some circuitous route across America, or by disappearing to an undisclosed location. You, and some of the others with lips firmly planted to Bush's posterior, seem to be the ones with the rose colored glasses on.

Next, we'll probably hear about how the "mighty Bush" wrestled the terrorists single-handed, marched on Kabul with only a survival knife clamped between his teeth, and then led the coalition troops right to Saddam's spider-hole, where he arm wrestled Hussein for control of Iraq. What a larger-than-life figure our president is! Truly the Hemmingway of our generation!

of course you dont know what i am talking about! your a dem! reality is meaningless to you!

do you really think he was doing nothing but flying around in a plane? your really not THAT dumb are you? ROFL!! he was following the same protocol a dem would. your not a stupid person, you know this as well as i do. but like most hypocrites you will milk the 911 situation for all the political $^&#@ it's worth while pointing your finger at others.

i cannot wait to see komrade kerry get his butt handed to him in november.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Oneness
What's even more dispicable is that Bush is scheduling a visit to Ground Zero during the NYC GOP Convention. All this while sidestepping the inquiry commission at every turn, including of course, his administration's adamant efforts to stop the commission from ever being formed in the first place! I plan to join the other million citizens that will be decending on NYC during the GOP convention to protest his decision to use Ground Zero and the events of 9/11 for his own personal and political gains.

I wouldn't be suprised if he held a fundraiser at ground zero

Dems should run Ads with quotes from that firefighter chastising Bush for using 9/11 for political gain.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
of course you dont know what i am talking about! your a dem! reality is meaningless to you!

do you really think he was doing nothing but flying around in a plane? your really not THAT dumb are you? ROFL!! he was following the same protocol a dem would. your not a stupid person, you know this as well as i do. but like most hypocrites you will milk the 911 situation for all the political $^&#@ it's worth while pointing your finger at others.

i cannot wait to see komrade kerry get his butt handed to him in november.

Shows you what you know: Nothing. I'm not a democrat.

 

[Oneness]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Oneness
What's even more dispicable is that Bush is scheduling a visit to Ground Zero during the NYC GOP Convention. All this while sidestepping the inquiry commission at every turn, including of course, his administration's adamant efforts to stop the commission from ever being formed in the first place! I plan to join the other million citizens that will be decending on NYC during the GOP convention to protest his decision to use Ground Zero and the events of 9/11 for his own personal and political gains.

I wouldn't be suprised if he held a fundraiser at ground zero

Dems should run Ads with quotes from that firefighter chastising Bush for using 9/11 for political gain.

there's more to this story... while Bush wants to portray himself as this great patriot with his arms around Mr. Fireman's shoulders he has for the past two years cut the firefighting budget significantly, leaving fire stations undermanned if not completely put out of service.

I don't think most people would have a problem with these ads and intentions to campaign from Ground Zero in time for the third anniversary of 9/11 if he were at least putting forth genuine effort to cooperate with the 9/11 commission. No, like the immature child he is, he wants his cake and to eat it too.

If I may, there's an excellent article on this issue at salon.com: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/03/05/bush_ads/print.html

 

[DanceMan]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Oneness
What's even more dispicable is that Bush is scheduling a visit to Ground Zero during the NYC GOP Convention. All this while sidestepping the inquiry commission at every turn, including of course, his administration's adamant efforts to stop the commission from ever being formed in the first place! I plan to join the other million citizens that will be decending on NYC during the GOP convention to protest his decision to use Ground Zero and the events of 9/11 for his own personal and political gains.

I wouldn't be suprised if he held a fundraiser at ground zero

Dems should run Ads with quotes from that firefighter chastising Bush for using 9/11 for political gain.

Heck yes! I have said what the Dems should do is buy time right after one of the 9/11 adds go up, and produce an ad that is simple white-on-black text (with voiceover, since most Americans don't seem to like to read) that brings up the point that if Bush is admant about not having another attack and protecting the American people, why isn't he trying to cooperate more at getting to the bottom of it? Then, I would fade out the ad with video of the family members (especially of mothers and children!) who have lost loved ones saying "You owe it to the American People, and you owe it to us". Granted, it's taking advantage of the tragedy too, but you sometimes gotta fight fire with fire.

You can see I have taken my training from the late, great Lee Atwater!

 

[TheGameIs21]

You know what is really getting old? All of the people who thing that the US made up the fact that IRAQ had WMD's.

Here are the facts for anyone who cares to take off their "I Hate GWB" hats.

1. At the end of aggressions in Gulf War 1, Saddam submitted paperwork to the UN stating his WMD inventory. The UN said (in a nutshell) "you must destroy all of these WMD's and provid proof of said destruction."

2. Proof of said destruction was never provided that proved complete destruction.

3. From what was shown to not be destroyed, IRAQ had a stockpile.

4. It wasn't the UN's or the US's job to prove the WMD's existed... It was IRAQ's responsibility to prove they were gone.

5. It only makes since that since we were already setting up a supply line in Aghganistan, we might as well go take care of IRAQ since they have known and proven ties to AQ and according to IRAQ Paperwork, they still had a large stockpile of WMD's.

If Iraq trully doesn't have WMD's (no they haven't looked everywhere but most likely none will be found) then it is their own damn fault for lying about having them in the first place.

It doesn't matter anyway. No democrat will ever think of the possibility that GWB did the correct thing.

Back to the Bush Ad... I finally saw it in it's entirety... I think it was a very strong piece that was very tastefull. And yes, I'd say the same thing if this was all done on Clinton's watch.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: TheGameIs21
You know what is really getting old? All of the people who thing that the US made up the fact that IRAQ had WMD's.

They cherry picked at what was best Dodgy Intel and then presented as unrefutable fact (which is the lie) to fool the American Public in to supporting the Dub's excellent and ill advised adventure in Iraq