9/11 Loose Change Final Cut Released Online

[alchemize]

Wow, you've gone from partisan hack to tinfoiler. Congrats!

They keep editing it as it gets debunked. Too funny.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
I am amazed people still get pulled into these conspiracy theories. It's as if they want to believe it. Yes, I think that's probably the best explanation; evidence by damned, these nuts are going to continue believing this not because they necessarily know it's true beyond a reasonable doubt, but because they believe it could be true and, based on the 1% of evidence that hasn't been explained throughly, they are damn well going to tell everyone about it.

Of course they want to believe it. It's really a "religion" for them. It gives them this feeling that "oh - everything I've ever learned is wrong, but here is this great Universal truth!". It also gives them a feeling of superiority - notice that everyone who disagrees is a "sheep".

It's much more exciting than mundane realities of inefficient governments and selfish human behavior. It's like living in an episode of 24 or the Matrix.

You could do some real interesting psychological studies on this, I honestly think it's a mental illness.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Yes, in the court of law person eye witnesses are very important.

eye witnesses are about the least reliable piece of evidence you can put on.

 

[Arkaign]

I love how three pages into the thread, and nobody on either side has put forth either evidence supporting these claims or an explanation as to how they are false.

Personally, I don't believe in any US-gov't-aided side to the 9/11 crimes.

At the same time, I have basically zero faith in my gov't. Politicians are opportunistic fucksticks who would dance at the opportunities provided by an event such as 9/11. So, on the 'knew about it/let it happen' side, I could easily believe that. I could even believe that decisions were made on the basis of reducing the readiness for such an attack. But that's about as far as I go. The precedent for my ideas is far from extreme. Our own Operation Northwoods was an official plan for an ACTIVE terrorist campaign under false flag against US citizens.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: clamum
I saw the first Loose Change and thought it was intriguing at first, but after researching for a few minutes found out and realized it was laughably stupid.

I'll check this one out but ain't expecting much. 9/11 conspiracies are hilarious.

Yup. Most truthers hate to admit that the 9/11 report is actually a very comprehensive document and leaves little doubt that it was planes that brought down the towers.


What we need to pay attention to is the sleight-of-hand pulled by these truthers. As their first theory ("The Government perpetrated 9/11") is continually debunked, they've moved towards their second theory ("the government facilitated 9/11") which, conveniently, is impossible to disprove.

 

[manowar821]

Marked for later..

Also, if you don't even watch the video ProfJohn, nobody will give a shit about anything you have to say.

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Pabster
Isn't it interesting that many of the Paulbots are 9/11 Kooks as well?

And you guys wonder, as Prof mentioned, why you aren't taken seriously.

It's sad, because Paul suffers from your delusion and paranoia. (And I'm talking effects on his campaign, not that he himself is of that mindset)

I don't know if it's interesting, but it is telling.

Do you know that if you literally take the phrase "There's a sucker born every minute." and apply it to the average annual birthrate in the US over the last 4 decades it accounts for nearly every Ron Paul supporter in the US?

Are you trying to imply that all Paul's supporters are "suckers?"

You're a bright one, Sherlock.

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: bamacre
I am not going to waste the time watching it. If for only one reason, that reason is that even IF there is significant evidence of a cover-up, then what? Then nothing. People still wouldn't want to hear the truth. Hell, people knew there were no WMD's in Iraq, they knew Bush wanted to invade Iraq before 9/11, and they STILL reelected him in '04.

Which people knew and when did they know it? And I would like to see proof of this claim.

I am sure you'll rush in with the proof just as you rushed in to provide proof that someone knew about 9-11 before it happened.

Well, we pretty much all knew, PJ.

edit so I don't post too much:

My favorite thing is that anyone who doesn't agree with the 9/11 conspiracy stuff are called 'government shills'...

Somehow we've all been manchurian-candidated and only the ronpaul supporters .. err 9/11 visionaries can see through it all!

 

[Vic]

If there is a 9/11 conspiracy, then I would have to be convinced that the makers of "Loose Change" are in it. Their "theories" are so bad they give renewed credibility to anything the government says. Or as Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone said, "I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes."

I have an even better theory though: a film school reject drafts a fictional story, a la Ludlum, that 9/11 was an inside job, but then realizes that the only way he can possibly sell it with his terrible production skills is to frame it as a non-fiction documentary.

 

[bamacre]

They wouldn't get as many eyes and ears if the current admin didn't abuse the situation, i.e., invasion of Iraq, and Patriot Act.

 

[NaughtyGeek]

The who or how of 9/11 has become irrelevant. What has been carried out in the name of 9/11 is what matters at this point. The 9/11 truth movement carries so much weight because of what has transpired in the name of 9/11, not because it happened. It's not hard to understand why people believe a myriad of "conspiracy theories" when you look at the laws passed and actions taken in response. If you don't want to see more of this, then it's time you look to your political leadership and demand they change their ways. Unprotected borders and rights stripping laws do not add up to protection of the governed one damn bit. Not to mention wars started under false pretenses and "faulty" intelligence. Until our government is reigned back in, there will continue to be support for 9/11 and other conspiracy theories because of the flagrant abuses of our rights being carried out in response to the original attack. People are merely seeking an answer as to how the hell we let our government get so farked up and out of control!

 

[yllus]

The sad thing is there probably was some measure of coverup involved in the 9/11 affair, though it's probably mostly centered around covering up someone being asleep at the wheel instead of nefarious action. But we'll never get to that because this bullshit drowns it out.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: yllus
The sad thing is there probably was some measure of coverup involved in the 9/11 affair, though it's probably mostly centered around covering up someone being asleep at the wheel instead of nefarious action. But we'll never get to that because this bullshit drowns it out.

Well, it's pretty damning that the White House was handed a document from the CIA entitled "Osama Bin Laden Intends to Attack Targets within the US Using Airplanes" or something like that in July '01.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: yllus
The sad thing is there probably was some measure of coverup involved in the 9/11 affair, though it's probably mostly centered around covering up someone being asleep at the wheel instead of nefarious action. But we'll never get to that because this bullshit drowns it out.

Well, it's pretty damning that the White House was handed a document from the CIA entitled "Osama Bin Laden Intends to Attack Targets within the US Using Airplanes" or something like that in July '01.

That's not nearly as damning as all of the Jews in the World Trade Center being absent the day of the attack! CONARPACITY!!!!!!!!!111

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: yllus
The sad thing is there probably was some measure of coverup involved in the 9/11 affair, though it's probably mostly centered around covering up someone being asleep at the wheel instead of nefarious action. But we'll never get to that because this bullshit drowns it out.

Well, it's pretty damning that the White House was handed a document from the CIA entitled "Osama Bin Laden Intends to Attack Targets within the US Using Airplanes" or something like that in July '01.

That's not nearly as damning as all of the Jews in the World Trade Center being absent the day of the attack! CONARPACITY!!!!!!!!!111

http://www.cooperativeresearch...=complete_911_timeline

Either they dropped the ball or let it happen. But after reading through a lot of that, I felt like I was the only one who didn't know it was coming.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: yllus
The sad thing is there probably was some measure of coverup involved in the 9/11 affair, though it's probably mostly centered around covering up someone being asleep at the wheel instead of nefarious action. But we'll never get to that because this bullshit drowns it out.

Well, it's pretty damning that the White House was handed a document from the CIA entitled "Osama Bin Laden Intends to Attack Targets within the US Using Airplanes" or something like that in July '01.

That's not nearly as damning as all of the Jews in the World Trade Center being absent the day of the attack! CONARPACITY!!!!!!!!!111

I've always wondered... why does every nutball conspiracy theory blame the Jews?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: yllus
The sad thing is there probably was some measure of coverup involved in the 9/11 affair, though it's probably mostly centered around covering up someone being asleep at the wheel instead of nefarious action. But we'll never get to that because this bullshit drowns it out.

Well, it's pretty damning that the White House was handed a document from the CIA entitled "Osama Bin Laden Intends to Attack Targets within the US Using Airplanes" or something like that in July '01.

That's not nearly as damning as all of the Jews in the World Trade Center being absent the day of the attack! CONARPACITY!!!!!!!!!111

http://www.cooperativeresearch...=complete_911_timeline

Either they dropped the ball or let it happen. But after reading through a lot of that, I felt like I was the only one who didn't know it was coming.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I think there's no doubt that the ball was dropped. And badly. Unfortunately (and I think this was sully's point and I know it's mine), we can't talk about that because the Loose Change and Truther whackjobs keep intruding the discussion with their moronic bleating.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: yllus
The sad thing is there probably was some measure of coverup involved in the 9/11 affair, though it's probably mostly centered around covering up someone being asleep at the wheel instead of nefarious action. But we'll never get to that because this bullshit drowns it out.

Well, it's pretty damning that the White House was handed a document from the CIA entitled "Osama Bin Laden Intends to Attack Targets within the US Using Airplanes" or something like that in July '01.

That's not nearly as damning as all of the Jews in the World Trade Center being absent the day of the attack! CONARPACITY!!!!!!!!!111

I've always wondered... why does every nutball conspiracy theory blame the Jews?

They're a physically identifiable group to whom the labels of "rich/powerful people" can be assigned? Considering the jealousy/conviction that the rich never earn their wealth legitimately we see every day I think it just works up a head of steam from there.

Also, considering we're not dealing with the brightest cross-section of humanity they're probably just easy considering the history of persecuted of the people. They need to either fit "Jews", "Illuminati" (probably also Jews) or "Aliens" into the box marked perpetrator, and we all know that the Illuminati and aliens don't exist.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: clamum
I saw the first Loose Change and thought it was intriguing at first, but after researching for a few minutes found out and realized it was laughably stupid.

I'll check this one out but ain't expecting much. 9/11 conspiracies are hilarious.

Yup. Most truthers hate to admit that the 9/11 report is actually a very comprehensive document and leaves little doubt that it was planes that brought down the towers.


What we need to pay attention to is the sleight-of-hand pulled by these truthers. As their first theory ("The Government perpetrated 9/11") is continually debunked, they've moved towards their second theory ("the government facilitated 9/11") which, conveniently, is impossible to disprove.

How so?

Even the authors of the official 9/11 report are dissatisfied with their own report. Even the official tools, appointed by the US government, to examine 9/11 are dissatisfied with the co-operation of the US government.

If the official 9/11 document is crap, why should anybody believe the official 9/11 story?

 

[alchemize]

And this thread remains open because....?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Nobody should believe the official story without doing their own research. However, anyone that has already done their own research and has a bit of intelligence and common sense, and approaches this without a bias either way realizes that while the 9/11 Report is a lot of crap, Loose Change is far, far more crap. It's not just crap, it's hideous crap that resorts to Moore-esque type trickery and slight of hand.

A theory is not composed of throwing darts in the hope that one sticks or doting on suspicions by taking snippets of audio conversations or making unfounded claims about grainy, compressed videos. Loose Change has no real facts to back up its assertions. Nothing they dwell on withstands detailed scrutiny. The only people that Loose Change convinces are those who walk into it already wanting to believe that our government is some dastardly organization out to get everyone and rule the world. iow, the truthers are fueled by paranoia and LC tells them exactly what they want to hear.

And, yes, I'm quite well versed in the 9/11 theories. I've discussed them with a number of CTs, including a few on this board and when I start bringing up details or asking hard questions they always drop out and fade away. Always.

 

[Jinru]

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: bamacre
I am not going to waste the time watching it. If for only one reason, that reason is that even IF there is significant evidence of a cover-up, then what? Then nothing. People still wouldn't want to hear the truth. Hell, people knew there were no WMD's in Iraq, they knew Bush wanted to invade Iraq before 9/11, and they STILL reelected him in '04.

Which people knew and when did they know it? And I would like to see proof of this claim.

I am sure you'll rush in with the proof just as you rushed in to provide proof that someone knew about 9-11 before it happened.

Well, we pretty much all knew, PJ.

edit so I don't post too much:

My favorite thing is that anyone who doesn't agree with the 9/11 conspiracy stuff are called 'government shills'...

Somehow we've all been manchurian-candidated and only the ronpaul supporters .. err 9/11 visionaries can see through it all!

Heres our proof that Iraq had WMD...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7075501.stm

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: clamum
I saw the first Loose Change and thought it was intriguing at first, but after researching for a few minutes found out and realized it was laughably stupid.

I'll check this one out but ain't expecting much. 9/11 conspiracies are hilarious.

Yup. Most truthers hate to admit that the 9/11 report is actually a very comprehensive document and leaves little doubt that it was planes that brought down the towers.


What we need to pay attention to is the sleight-of-hand pulled by these truthers. As their first theory ("The Government perpetrated 9/11") is continually debunked, they've moved towards their second theory ("the government facilitated 9/11") which, conveniently, is impossible to disprove.

How so?

Even the authors of the official 9/11 report are dissatisfied with their own report. Even the official tools, appointed by the US government, to examine 9/11 are dissatisfied with the co-operation of the US government.

If the official 9/11 document is crap, why should anybody believe the official 9/11 story?

Because each argument the conspiracy theorists come up with is less plausible than the last. Each piece of evidence anybody who doesn't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy presents is immediately "debunked" which basically means ignored.

There were stories that the planes were really government-fitted planes with explosives that had been swapped with the hijacked planes. There is 0 credible evidence for this scenario.

There were stories that the government fired a missile at the pentagon. This conclusion is reached based on two frames of video from a surveillance camera and the hole made in the side of the building. The official explanation, and the obvious one, is that the plane hit the building, the wings snapped off and traveled through the same hole made by the bulk of the plane. If a car hits a brick wall, do you expect to see a perfect outline of a car in the wall?

Then there were stories that the remains found from the flight shot down were upwind of the crash site, making the official story impossible. Too bad that is just a lie and the remains are located downwind of the site. There was also a report of a plane circling the wreckage than flying off. Truthers cling to this eye-witness testimony that the government was behind it. Too bad that when air traffic control lost contact with the plane they radioed the nearest available aircraft (which was a white private corporate jet) and asked it to check out the last known point of contact. The pilot did so, reported the crash and then continued on his way. Not only does the government story back this up, but the pilot's own testimony does too.

Then we have this ridiculousness about NORAD and how they can intercept flights anywhere in the US. NORAD, prior to Sept 11, had intercepted exactly ONE flight in US airspace in the history of the organization and it took the interceptor over an hour to reach the plane. Why didn't NORAD intercept the other planes? Because, prior to Sept 11, NORAD only received word of hijackings from the FAA, who appropriately notified NORAD of the situation as they became aware of it. That day NORAD had 15 planes on emergency standbye across the US and deployed F15s from MA, and F16s from Virginia to intercept the New York-bound planes. Because military craft weren't allowed to fly at supersonic speeds during intercepts prior to Sept 11, the planes didn't reach in time. This factor was also compounded by the fact that the hijackers turned off the transponders on the planes, so the FAA had to manually find the planes before they even knew where they were.

The list goes on and on, but at nearly every turn there is a reasonable explanation and the truther explanation. Sept 11 was a disaster for many US agencies. We were caught with our proverbial pants down, but to believe that there was a deliberate conspiracy with the evidence and documentation we have just isn't justifiable.

Again, there is no credible evidence that any bombs were planted. There is no evidence the planes that hit the towers weren't the ones that were hijacked. There is no evidence that any government agency deliberately delayed or inhibited the interception of those planes.

Citing evidence like "the building collapsed strangely" isn't credible either because people who blow buildings up for a living, structural engineers, and people generally qualified to make statements like that nearly unanimously agree that there is nothing suspicious.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Wow, you've gone from partisan hack to tinfoiler. Congrats!

They keep editing it as it gets debunked. Too funny.

LOL

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: yllus
The sad thing is there probably was some measure of coverup involved in the 9/11 affair, though it's probably mostly centered around covering up someone being asleep at the wheel instead of nefarious action. But we'll never get to that because this bullshit drowns it out.

Well, it's pretty damning that the White House was handed a document from the CIA entitled "Osama Bin Laden Intends to Attack Targets within the US Using Airplanes" or something like that in July '01.

That's not nearly as damning as all of the Jews in the World Trade Center being absent the day of the attack! CONARPACITY!!!!!!!!!111

I've always wondered... why does every nutball conspiracy theory blame the Jews?

cuz J00s take our money thru FED!!!111!!eleventy1