8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[psolord]

10GB VRAM at 1080 very low ☠️

View attachment 106371

Sir, please don't omit information. You got this from here.

Star Wars Outlaws Performance Benchmark Review - 35 GPUs Tested

Star Wars Outlaws is a new title in the iconic Star Wars universe, which lets you play as member of the criminal underworld. The game uses the Snowdrop engine, and delivers great graphics. In our performance review, we'll looks at the game's graphics quality, VRAM consumption, and how it runs...

www.techpowerup.com

It clearly says:

Please read the conclusion on how the game engine manages VRAM.

And the conclusion is here

Star Wars Outlaws Performance Benchmark Review - 35 GPUs Tested

Star Wars Outlaws is a new title in the iconic Star Wars universe, which lets you play as member of the criminal underworld. The game uses the Snowdrop engine, and delivers great graphics. In our performance review, we'll looks at the game's graphics quality, VRAM consumption, and how it runs...

www.techpowerup.com

and says

Our VRAM testing shows that Star Wars Outlaws will use a ton of memory—when it's available. On cards with less VRAM it does a reasonably good job at memory management. Our results confirm this, the RTX 4060 Ti 8 GB runs at virtually the same FPS as the RTX 4060 Ti 16 GB, even at 1440p and 4K.

and here are the results

 

[psolord]

If I ever have to define what "reductio ad absurdum" means I'm linking to psolords posts in this thread!

If you want to see denial, see the above post and add this to it as well.

Black Myth Wukong In-Game Performance Benchmark Review - 35 GPUs Tested

Black Myth Wukong has over two million gamers playing the game. This souls-like action RPG is a huge hit, especially in China. Powered by Unreal Engine 5, the graphics look great, but hardware requirements are definitely not on the light side, we had to use upscaling. In our performance review...

www.techpowerup.com

Looking at 4060ti 8/16, you will need even more correct settings to make it playable, meaning even less vram, which is already irrelevant.

The 4060ti is effectively on 6800XT level. I don't see its 16GBs helping. The 4060ti 8GB is 38% faster than the 7600XT 16GB. Who is the abserdum here?

Wukong reached 2.5 million users on steam and will go higher. Please show me Deliver Us Mars at 1440p Ultra+RT to show the 20 people that played it how bad 8GB cards are. JFC

 

[psolord]

Which varies by user and is subjective.

It is a matter of human biology my friend. Sure not everybody is the same, but we are not slugs to be ok with 30fps. Seriously we had 60fps decades ago in the arcades. We are not going to backtrack now. I certainly will not.

 

[psolord]

It's not that hard in theory. Upon launch, they could simply check VRAM and if it's insufficient for the high quality assets, do the downscaling/downgrading on the gamer's PC in real time as a one time process. Then they don't need to include several different quality texture assets with the game. Should reduce game size even.

And that would lead to some cursing from the dude when he tries to run such a game on his old hardware with 8GB GPUs: "Time remaining: 48 days 10 hours 33 minutes and 9 seconds...".

8GBs are a huge amount of data and it's really sad that people do not get that. They can fit glorious looking textures. All that is needed, is for the dev to not try to render sub pixel sized 4k textures on a 1080p display, for which these cards are aimed at.

With UE5 even low textures look good. From here

Why? It's called asset streaming and has been a thing for decades, only now it's done better.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Question:



Why haven't they mentioned which NVMe drives they are using? And why two of them? Are they configured in RAID 0? This could be an attempt to mitigate the effect of a slow SSD to get a better picture of a GPU's performance potential without any I/O effects coming into play but then this will also prevent the fps from dipping because data can be provided fast enough to the GPU during texture streaming. Point is, this doesn't reflect a typical use case for the majority of users. This is basically a best case scenario and it would fail to show any effect of VRAM running out. A card with enough VRAM would be able to keep frame rates higher with more I/O pauses while something with lesser VRAM could run out of data and then have to wait for data, causing an fps dip.

So is the dude advocating that someone spend $400 for a 4060 Ti 8GB GPU and then splurge $1000+ on the rest of the PC?

 

[WelshBloke]

...

Honestly I can't exactly work out what the hell you are trying to prove.

The basic premise of the thread is that modern games are requiring larger and larger amounts of vram and that whereas 8gb might have been fine a few years ago it's now a bottleneck on performance.

You however seem to have taken offence at this for some reason and are entirely happy to die on the hill of finding a combination of GPUs that are bottlenecked elsewhere as if that proves that vram doesn't matter.

I mean you do you but clearly (as someone that's just played Diablo4 for a bit that's sucking up 15gb) it's a weird stance to take.

 

[MrTeal]

Honestly I can't exactly work out what the hell you are trying to prove.

The basic premise of the thread is that modern games are requiring larger and larger amounts of vram and that whereas 8gb might have been fine a few years ago it's now a bottleneck on performance.

You however seem to have taken offence at this for some reason and are entirely happy to die on the hill of finding a combination of GPUs that are bottlenecked elsewhere as if that proves that vram doesn't matter.

I mean you do you but clearly (as someone that's just played Diablo4 for a bit that's sucking up 15gb) it's a weird stance to take.

It is possible to incorrectly interpret the title of the tread to mean that 8GB is insufficient for any new game under any circumstances, and then spend the next 3 years railing against that despite no one actually claiming that's the case.

 

[WelshBloke]

It is possible to incorrectly interpret the title of the tread to mean that 8GB is insufficient for any new game under any circumstances, and then spend the next 3 years railing against that despite no one actually claiming that's the case.

I mean I'm impressed that he's put this much effort into arguing that other bottlnecks occur when no one else has ever argued that they don't.
I'm not sure that I've ever been so invested in anything as much as he seems to be invested in this!

 

[igor_kavinski]

He's a true visionary!

Expect that from a person who enjoys Jensen Sparkling Water and makes sure to touch the Book of Jensen every night on his bedside table before dozing off!

 

[marees]

He's a true visionary!

Expect that from a person who enjoys Jensen Sparkling Water and makes sure to touch the Book of Jensen every night on his bedside table before dozing off!

Please recite before booting up RT heavy games:

“Our Lord Jensen blessed us with silicon
that enabled people to build games
that look so pretty,
even if it has issues
that are partially due to
Nvidia’s influence on the developers.

We must look past them for we are lost without him.

Amen”

 

[Iron Woode]

Why anyone would want textures popping in and out or worse, muddy textures, all for the sake of "correct settings" on subpar VRAM cards in new games makes absolutely no sense to me.

So, are we all in agreement that he is wrong and needs to stop posting this nonsense?

 

[marees]

I have a question

Is UE5's virtual shadow map of nanite the kryptonite for low vram cards, when there is fast camera movement necessitating textures not yet loaded to be pulled from outside the cache ?

Virtual Shadow Maps. Is it suitable for fast-paced?

It’s not much related to my topic. You don’t have to use Nanite if you don’t need it also. Overall, Nanite have nothing to do with core of this problem. Yes it does and for any future reader I’m going to elaborate. You’re worried about performance in fast motion. VSM’s on non-nanite meshes...

forums.unrealengine.com

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Why anyone would want textures popping in and out or worse, muddy textures, all for the sake of "correct settings" on subpar VRAM cards in new games makes absolutely no sense to me.

So, are we all in agreement that he is wrong and needs to stop posting this nonsense?

I have made the motion several times to lock this thread. As the OP rage quit, and ghost is the only dissenting opinion. The members have majority responded they prefer the thread stay open each time. Ghost also puts a great deal of effort into defending their position so it isn't like some low effort trolling is going on.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

So much for no difference between the 8 and 16 version of 4060ti in outlaws. Only takes a 30 second test run to expose -

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I have a question

Is UE5's virtual shadow map of nanite the kryptonite for low vram cards, when there is fast camera movement necessitating textures not yet loaded to be pulled from outside the cache ?

Virtual Shadow Maps. Is it suitable for fast-paced?

It’s not much related to my topic. You don’t have to use Nanite if you don’t need it also. Overall, Nanite have nothing to do with core of this problem. Yes it does and for any future reader I’m going to elaborate. You’re worried about performance in fast motion. VSM’s on non-nanite meshes...

forums.unrealengine.com

I watched their vid on the topic a couple of days ago. Interesting stuff.

 

[marees]

Why anyone would want textures popping in and out or worse, muddy textures, all for the sake of "correct settings" on subpar VRAM cards in new games makes absolutely no sense to me.

So, are we all in agreement that he is wrong and needs to stop posting this nonsense?

I would consider any card with 8gb vram as not suitable for 1080p high / 1080p ultra gaming.

Of course if you spent $400+ on acquiring such a card, you could somehow play at 1440p by playing around with several settings.

But you shouldn't have to do that. An 8gb vram card should only be used 1080p medium. That is $200-$250 range. Of course TSMC fab prices & fast gddr memory prices are increasing. So maybe $300 for 8gb vram card, if grudgingly, can be tolerated

Anything $350 or above should be atleast 12gb vram
Anything $500 or above should be atleast 16gb vram
Anything $700 or above should be atleast 20gb vram
Fortunately 20gb vram has been sufficient as of today for gaming purposes.

 

[blckgrffn]

Why anyone would want textures popping in and out or worse, muddy textures, all for the sake of "correct settings" on subpar VRAM cards in new games makes absolutely no sense to me.

So, are we all in agreement that he is wrong and needs to stop posting this nonsense?

I am fine with it. It reminds me of the silly debates back in the mid 2000’s. Nostalgia and always a thread update for me to wonder at

 

[igor_kavinski]

Anyone not wonder why he is only one? I mean, where are his friends? Why aren't they supporting him? Is he the only one in his community who plays videogames?

 

[blckgrffn]

Anyone not wonder why he is only one? I mean, where are his friends? Why aren't they supporting him? Is he the only one in his community who plays videogames?

I think the user count here is too low. Which is actually nice, because its not a sea of strangers. Just like a little backwater of strangers, some of whom have been kind enough to DM me and be less of stranger and are now an Internet acquaintance

And many that I have seen post for 5-20 years and so I get an idea of how they think, which is also cool.

For me, some of my friends IRL I can and do argue with about trivial things like this, so I am not sure that would help either

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Anyone not wonder why he is only one? I mean, where are his friends? Why aren't they supporting him? Is he the only one in his community who plays videogames?

I literally just read the same nonsense he spews on TPU forums. Either he has a different username there, or there are others still repeating those tired taking points from the old days when textures were not a hugely differentiating feature to consider. And GPU power really was quite frequently more important than vram quantity. As we have lived. died. repeated here so often; Textures are arguably the single most important IQ improvement while costing very little to no impact on performance in modern games. Frame pacing issue, muddy textures, textures not loading, pop-in; all among the most egregious IQ issues and all caused by low vram. When everything else is identical between cards, more vram FTMFW in late 2024.

Those forums are a reality distortion field anyways. It's is obvious Intel swag and ad revenue influences the staff and their postings. And they have accumulated the most fanatical pro Intel following I've seen. We are talking copium overdose levels. Some of the stuff I read there is straight up alternate reality and or denial of reality nonsense, just like the contentions being made in this thread.

And many that I have seen post for 5-20 years and so I get an idea of how they think, which is also cool.

Or as your observations apply to me in particular, you get an idea of my random synaptic firings that can hardly be considered thoughts at all.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Those forums are a reality distortion field anyways. It's is obvious Intel swag and ad revenue influences the staff and their postings. And they have accumulated the most fanatical pro Intel following I've seen. We are talking copium overdose levels. Some of the stuff I read there is straight up alternate reality and or denial of reality nonsense, just like the contentions being made in this thread.

Wow! Good thing their forum results rarely (if ever?) show up in my searches so never needed to read crap like that.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Wow! Good thing their forum results rarely (if ever?) show up in my searches so never needed to read crap like that.

Make no mistake, there are some seriously great posters, cool people, and they really know their stuff. I learn a lot reading the threads. Unfortunately they don't police shilling and trolling like here, so flame wars, insults, and massive thread derailments are prevalent. Here is the post I read -

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/2080-super-vs-3060ti-used-purchase.325922/post-5319211

Sound familiar?

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/2080-super-vs-3060ti-used-purchase.325922/post-5319211

Nice. The forum look and feel reminds me of Tech Report. That post, could be a disciple of the dude (maybe they take turns while the other sleeps).

 

[Mopetar]

So maybe $300 for 8gb vram card, if grudgingly, can be tolerated

I wouldn't pay more than $200 for an 8 GB card. At that point just get an APU and save yourself some money. The APU might not have as many cores, but if the VRAM is going to be a limiting factor in so many cases going forward, why spend the extra money?

I'd also knock $50-$100 off your suggested prices. I should be able to get 16 GB with a $400 card. A $300 card should have at least 12 GB.

Sound familiar?

A little, but there weren't five consecutive posts filled with charts arguing a completely different point so I don't think it's the same guy.

The 3060 Ti wasn't a bad card when it came out, but games have changed a lot since then. At launch there weren't many titles that would use more than 8 GB, some even in 4K. I even argued that it made a decent entry-level 4K card for its price if you didn't need to have the best frame rates for the games you were playing.

However, the new console generation increased the amount of memory that games could utilize and easily allowed for more than 8 GB to be dedicated to video memory without squeezing the rest of the game. As the old saying goes, software is a gas that expands to fill the available container.

 

[yepp]

Some of the texture work in Wukong is absolutely terrible for 2024, got to stay in that 8GB buffer lol. It's almost like some kind of texture streaming/LOD bug. Game is pretty decent but way overhyped on Steam, it's on around the same level as the much underappreciated Surge 2, Metacritic score of 8/10 is fair. Nioh 2 dances circles around this game even without a jump button.

Both HUB and DF mentions how bad some of the textures looks: