8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[marees]

got to stay in that 8GB buffer lol. It's almost like some kind of texture streaming/LOD bug.

Would it have shipped with such low texture quality if this game were not 'Nvidia Sponsored'

After all majority of the limited vram cards are nv cards & it will make nv look bad if game with high quality textures tanked fps on their cards 🤔

Please recite before booting up RT heavy games:

“Our Lord Jensen blessed us with silicon
that enabled people to build games
that look so pretty,
even if it has issues
that are partially due to
Nvidia’s influence on the developers.

We must look past them for we are lost without him.

Amen”

 

[psolord]

Honestly I can't exactly work out what the hell you are trying to prove.

The basic premise of the thread is that modern games are requiring larger and larger amounts of vram and that whereas 8gb might have been fine a few years ago it's now a bottleneck on performance.

You however seem to have taken offence at this for some reason and are entirely happy to die on the hill of finding a combination of GPUs that are bottlenecked elsewhere as if that proves that vram doesn't matter.

I mean you do you but clearly (as someone that's just played Diablo4 for a bit that's sucking up 15gb) it's a weird stance to take.

What I am proving sir, is what I have been saying from the beginning. That most of these 8GB cards, are perfectly fine with their framebuffer, within their gpu power boundaries.

Actually this 8GB framebuffer is mostly useless for older cards like the GTX 1070 and/or weaker cards like the rx6600. I have both fyi and I have tested time and again what they can muster. Moreover, everyone has been cheering how better the 3060 would be from the likes of the 3060ti/3070, just because it had more vram. The hell it would.

Moreover, when I started disputing the arguments of this thread, everyone turned against me and many have called me names and have developed a moderator applauded aggressive behavior towards me, with mocking and even encouragement to block me.

Therefore it is my duty to keep going within the boundaries of slow office days plus what fun this thread is. It is a tech thread after all.

 

[psolord]

Make no mistake, there are some seriously great posters, cool people, and they really know their stuff. I learn a lot reading the threads. Unfortunately they don't police shilling and trolling like here, so flame wars, insults, and massive thread derailments are prevalent. Here is the post I read -

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/2080-super-vs-3060ti-used-purchase.325922/post-5319211

Sound familiar?

This guy is not me. I gave him a love since he is right. Thanks.

 

[psolord]

I have made the motion several times to lock this thread. As the OP rage quit, and ghost is the only dissenting opinion. The members have majority responded they prefer the thread stay open each time. Ghost also puts a great deal of effort into defending their position so it isn't like some low effort trolling is going on.

Thank you sir for understanding that I am not trolling and I defend my position with examples and own tests. I have a username though. The ghost is from that Intel spectre vulnerability.

 

[psolord]

It is possible to incorrectly interpret the title of the tread to mean that 8GB is insufficient for any new game under any circumstances, and then spend the next 3 years railing against that despite no one actually claiming that's the case.

The force and momentum this thread has been having, really were broadcasting this message. That's why I entered it. It is giving PC a bad name. I am only trying to put things within scope and everyone is refusing to see what I am saying. And what I am saying, is that vram only matters within the boundaries of the gpu power it accompanies. That's why I keep referring to the 3060.

 

[psolord]

^Case in point, new test Final Fantasy XVI benchmarks, tested by gamegpu.



I gave you the demo link a while back. Noone responded. The tests above show why.

One more game that has nothing to do with video ram being a disaster. The 3060 is beaten by 8 video cards with less vram.

The 3060ti is again 37% faster. Keep in mind that 51fps vs 37fps carry much more weight than what the percentage difference is saying, that's why I insist between the two.

Top 8GB card vs last 8GB card have 77% difference. Top 12GB vs last 12GB have a 2.24X difference...

And if you must know, the 3060ti did quite a good at 1080p ultra, with the assist of DLSS. Here is the relevant 46 min video fml.

Spoiler: 3060ti Final Fantasy XVI

PS please note that this one does not use the Luminous Engine that Forspoken was using and has been one of your banners in this thread. So much for the importance of THAT engine, lol.

 

[psolord]

I literally just read the same nonsense he spews on TPU forums. Either he has a different username there, or there are others still repeating those tired taking points from the old days when textures were not a hugely differentiating feature to consider. And GPU power really was quite frequently more important than vram quantity.

I only post as psolord sir. It seems really incomprehensible to you, that others may have the same opinion. Yes gpu power is WAY more important for all next gen engines.

 

[WelshBloke]

Therefore it is my duty to keep going within the boundaries of slow office days plus what fun this thread is. It is a tech thread after all.

JFYI this is trolling.

 

[WelshBloke]

Yes gpu power is WAY more important for all next gen engines.

Is ther some rule that says adding vram to a card somehow reduces its rendering ability?

 

[psolord]

So much for no difference between the 8 and 16 version of 4060ti in outlaws. Only takes a 30 second test run to expose -

View attachment 106485

Sir, you are doing the same thing again. You are showing results that are homicated and fabrisexual from the testers, in order to make the 8GB framebuffer to fail.

You got this shot from this vid

What grinds my gears, is that there are perfectly usable stable settings without FG jerkiness just a little further into the video, that you again chose to omit.



There you are, perfectly playable results with the 4060ti 8GB being almost equal to 4060ti 16GB, 6800 and 7800XT. Why? Why do you keep going with this mentality, I don't get it.

 

[psolord]

Is ther some rule that says adding vram to a card somehow reduces its rendering ability?

No.

There is however some rule, that says that the idiot that will see 16GB on the box, will think that he is getting a good card and will probably steer him from a better purchase. For example 7600XT, 4060ti 16GB and 4080 have nothing in common (other than the 16GB on the box).

 

[maddie]

There are a few circumstances where monomaniacal behavior is beneficial. This is not one.

 

[WelshBloke]

Sir, you are doing the same thing again. You are showing results that are homicated and fabrisexual from the testers, in order to make the 8GB framebuffer to fail.

[redacted]

[redacted]

There you are, perfectly playable results with the 4060ti 8GB being almost equal to 4060ti 16GB, 6800 and 7800XT. Why? Why do you keep going with this mentality, I don't get it.

Because we want cards that cover all the games, just because I've got enough render for some games doesnt negate the need for vram in others.

 

[marees]

I would consider any card with 8gb vram as not suitable for 1080p high / 1080p ultra gaming.

Of course if you spent $400+ on acquiring such a card, you could somehow play at 1440p by playing around with several settings.

But you shouldn't have to do that. An 8gb vram card should only be used 1080p medium. That is $200-$250 range. Of course TSMC fab prices & fast gddr memory prices are increasing. So maybe $300 for 8gb vram card, if grudgingly, can be tolerated

Anything $350 or above should be atleast 12gb vram
Anything $500 or above should be atleast 16gb vram
Anything $700 or above should be atleast 20gb vram
Fortunately 20gb vram has been sufficient as of today for gaming purposes.

Would it have shipped with such low texture quality if this game were not 'Nvidia Sponsored'

After all majority of the limited vram cards are nv cards & it will make nv look bad if game with high quality textures tanked fps on their cards 🤔

Apologies, if someone already posted this, but I just saw this

BMW, despite all those muddy textures, with DLSS & FG being enabled, still the 8gb 4060 ti has poor 1% lows compared to 16gb card

& this is an nvidia Sponsored game

A really special card this 4060 ti 8gb

 

[WelshBloke]

No.

There is however some rule, that says that the idiot that will see 16GB on the box, will think that he is getting a good card and will probably steer him from a better purchase. For example 7600XT, 4060ti 16GB and 4080 have nothing in common (other than the 16GB on the box).

So rather than trying to prove that vram doesnt matter why not point out the cards that are a good deal and have both a decent amount of vram and a decent amount of GPU grunt? You can have both!

 

[Iron Woode]

Moreover, everyone has been cheering how better the 3060 would be from the likes of the 3060ti/3070, just because it had more vram. The hell it would.

No one here believes that. We wanted the 3060Ti and the 3070 to have more VRAM to make them better cards.

 

[yepp]

Graphs only tell half the story in Star Wars Outlaws in regards to VRAM, not all cards are rendering the game equally:

 

[WelshBloke]

No one here believes that. We wanted the 3060Ti and the 3070 to have more VRAM to make them better cards.

This is what I'm not getting in his arguments.

Everyone: card XXX8gb would be better if it was card XXX16gb
Psolord: What? Why would you think YYY16gb would be better than XXX8gb? (adds 15 bazzilion screen shots and youtube videos not showing XXX8gb vs XXX16gb)

 

[DAPUNISHER]

@yepp

Precisely. I noted this as well -

Tim mentioned a few times during his Wukong optimization vid that he wished they had included higher res textures. But that he understood it was extra time=money. I have heard 2 different devs say it is better if they just make high quality assets. That scaling them down for the sake of cards without enough vram is the extra work. I guess Game Science skipped straight to step 2.

Thanks for the more detailed and encompassing follow up.

 

[Ranulf]

Graphs only tell half the story in Star Wars Outlaws in regards to VRAM, not all cards are rendering the game equally:

Heh, beat to the punch. I just saw this vid linked elsewhere and thought of this thread. But hey, at least $300-450 cards of the past 3 years or so can hit around 60fps at 1080p. Not that I would call the game ugly besides many of the character models and animations, it really isn't a graphics beauty.

 

[Hitman928]

Graphs only tell half the story in Star Wars Outlaws in regards to VRAM, not all cards are rendering the game equally:

This same situation has been mentioned multiple times in this thread for various games. Unfortunately the person you want to understand this point will promptly ignore or hand waive it away.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Would it have shipped with such low texture quality if this game were not 'Nvidia Sponsored'

After all majority of the limited vram cards are nv cards & it will make nv look bad if game with high quality textures tanked fps on their cards 🤔

Instead of a rising tide lifting all boats, Nvidia has chosen to be the anchor around our necks. Their avarice for big margins and the need for board partners to make a buck too, is holding back gaming in all the wrong ways. Everything they sponsor is either hot garbage, or games most of us will only play maxed out 2 or 3 generations from now when we don't need a $1600+ card to do it.

 

[Ranulf]

Oh come on now. It is a privilege to spend $1600 plus $130 for early access to beta test the game. That or go PS5 for $500 plus $130 and get told to start the game over again if you played during early beta testing er early access weekend because the patch borks old saves eventually. I hear Ubisoft did give people 100 ubi coins to buy cosmetics or a 20% discount on future games.

 

[igor_kavinski]

View attachment 106530

There you are, perfectly playable results with the 4060ti 8GB being almost equal to 4060ti 16GB, 6800 and 7800XT. Why? Why do you keep going with this mentality, I don't get it.

Man, you are so funny. Why are you ignoring the fact that 4060 Ti 16GB is doing considerably well compared to 4060 Ti 8GB? That's the point DAPUNISHER was making.

And stop whining about people being rude to you. We have been very patient and very nice to you, considering what you have subjected us to. So shut up and post

 

[MrTeal]

Man, you are so funny. Why are you ignoring the fact that 4060 Ti 16GB is doing considerably well compared to 4060 Ti 8GB? That's the point DAPUNISHER was making.

And stop whining about people being rude to you. We have been very patient and very nice to you, considering what you have subjected us to. So shut up and post

Again just ignoring the content to post a bar chart. Steve explained in the video how the game will run fine on 8GB cards but automatically lower texture quality.

It's a real problem, since that kind of stuff is terrible when actually playing games for ruining immersion. It'd be better just to run with lower quality textures everywhere so you don't have texture pop, in the same way it feels better to have a game run at 40 or 60 fps steady than at 70-80 with 20fps lows.