the knock sensor found in Australian Fords (mainly the Falcon) and GMH commodores works on temperature. not all sensor are manufactured the same, the Falcon and Commodore use the same Bosch unit, with the commodore V6 and Later falcon inline 6's it is located in the exhaust flange on earlier falcon and commodore inline 6's it is located in the cylinder head next to the exhaust, but they all work the same measuring temperature variations. of course it will be different in other vehicles they don't use the same type of sensor. but the example that i used in the EEC and Delco computers which is primarly found on the falcon and commodore measures temperature and no matter what childish bitching you guys do can change that, I didn't design it, if you have issues with this implementation of the knock sensor..take it up with ford australia and GMH.
the knock sensor found in Australian Fords (mainly the Falcon) and GMH commodores works on temperature. not all sensor are manufactured the same, the Falcon and Commodore use the same Bosch unit, with the commodore V6 and Later falcon inline 6's it is located in the exhaust flange on earlier falcon and commodore inline 6's it is located in the cylinder head next to the exhaust, but they all work the same measuring temperature variations. of course it will be different in other vehicles they don't use the same type of sensor. but the example that i used in the EEC and Delco computers which is primarly found on the falcon and commodore measures temperature and no matter what childish bitching you guys do can change that, I didn't design it, if you have issues with this implementation of the knock sensor..take it up with ford australia and GMH.
in the lastest BA falcon and VZ commodore the Knock sensor measures vibration via the exhaust manifold, but this has proven troublesome and ford will revert back to the temperature unit with the next model, as far as i know GMH will relocate the knock sensor in it ALLOYTEC V6 to the cylinder head in the next six months.
but all the earlier models from 1986 onwards all measured temperature and adjusted it according to engine conditions, this includes using different types of fuel. Its just how it works
uuuuummmmm...no....your own link showed the knock sensor of a falcon on the "exhaust side" of the head.
read the second part of it with the EL falcon with the base model engine it is located in the exhaust flange, where is the exhaust flange located??
To test the veracity of my statement, connect a timing light if the vehicle has a distributor, for DIS connect a scan tool and observe ignition timing. Now rap sharply on the engine with a wrench or screw driver and observe the resultant timing. End of experiment.
yes I know this method, last year I owned a 1987 VL commodore turbo, the VL was the only GMH car that used a nissian RB series 6 cylinder, to test the knock sensor this is the reccommend method, but with the later commodores and inline 6 falcon all that has to be done to test the sensor is disconnect it, if the engine starts to ping after 10 minutes of idling with the sensor disconnected but stop pinging once the sensor is reconnected the sensor works, if it keeps pinging after it is reconnected it doesn't work.
The exhaust manifold is generally not above the flange. However the head and intake are. Show us a diagram or quit talking out of your @ss and I don't mean one you made in MS paint.
if you have a car go and have a look how the exhaust pipe connects to the manifold the join where they bolt together is called a flange...duh
it's like trying to explain engineering to 5 yr olds...der wheres that go..der why do i have left over bits
Actually I have 5 sitting in my yard right now. I am a mechanic and I've been restoring cars since I was <10 years old. Your right about the five year old thing though. Usually one could design what the average engineer does. It takes an adult mechanic to do it right.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
OK let me rephase everything
the AUSTRALIAN ford falcon and Holden commodore use a temperature sensor that is called a knock sensor, in early models it is fitted in the cylinder head, in later models it is fitted in the exhaust manifold right above the exhaust FLANGE, the purpose of this sensor is to reduce detonation, it does this by detecting temperature changes in the engine, it is close to the combustion chamber where it is most efficent at doing it's job, it does NOT detect vibrations like those used by other manufacturers but it detects temperature changes and it adjusts the ignition timing accordingly to suit the changed engine conditions..because of this the ECA can alter the engine timing to suit fuels with different octane ratings, this allows for poorer quality fuels to be used with reduced performance without harming the engine, but it will give small improvements to fuel economy and bottom end performance when better quality fuels are used.
Australia has some of the worst quality fuel in the world, much of it is poorer than most third world countries. this type of sensor allow australian made engines to survive this, a lot of imported engines have to be detuned to suit our fuel and often have a high rate of failure because of it, the Australian manufactures have a way around this and have solved this problem.
the AUSTRALIAN ford falcon and Holden commodore use a temperature sensor that is called a knock sensor, in early models it is fitted in the cylinder head, in later models it is fitted in the exhaust manifold right above the exhaust FLANGE, the purpose of this sensor is to reduce detonation, it does this by detecting temperature changes in the engine, it is close to the combustion chamber where it is most efficent at doing it's job, it does NOT detect vibrations like those used by other manufacturers but it detects temperature changes and it adjusts the ignition timing accordingly to suit the changed engine conditions..because of this the ECA can alter the engine timing to suit fuels with different octane ratings, this allows for poorer quality fuels to be used with reduced performance without harming the engine, but it will give small improvements to fuel economy and bottom end performance when better quality fuels are used.
Australia has some of the worst quality fuel in the world, much of it is poorer than most third world countries. this type of sensor allow australian made engines to survive this, a lot of imported engines have to be detuned to suit our fuel and often have a high rate of failure because of it, the Australian manufactures have a way around this and have solved this problem.
it also has flanges which bolt to the exhaust pipe..or do you weld these together? with extractor there is no bottom flange but with most cast iron manifolds, there are flanges at both ends the top one bolt to the head, like you said the bottom one bolts to the exhaust pipe, the knock sensor is located right above the bottom flange, practicaly in the middle of the manifold...you get what i mean?
I get what you are trying to say however since you your knowledge of the subject must be derived from somewhere surely you can post a diagram or some text authored by somebody other than yourself. I can produce lots of links showing the knock sensor on the head, intake and block but I have yet to find one in the exhaust manifold. Your previous explanation doesn't do much good because I have cars where the knock sensor is "right above the exhaust flange" in the head.
unfortunatly all i can give is a list of books, no links sorry. but yes with my 1986 ford the knock sensor is right above the manifold in the head, but with the 1997 ford and my parents 1999 ford the sensor is actually in the manifold itself. the Ford OHC inline sixes other than those that have been modified by Tickford are all like this with the sensor in the manifold, the earlier OHV inline sixes have the sensor in the head.
the tickford high performance OHC inline sixes havean oxygen sensor in place of the knock sensor the knock sensor is positioned in the cylinder head, it is probably hard to describe because these type of engines are not used in any cars other than the Australian ford falcon.
the early commodore V6 is based an a Front wheel drive buick V6 but has been signifigantly redesigned to suit our rear wheel drive cars, hence it is also very different to any american or japanese engines. the only common engine i can think of is the RB series inline 6's that were used in the 1987 Commodore and the Nissan Skyline but they have the piezoelectric knock sensor in the block.
the tickford high performance OHC inline sixes havean oxygen sensor in place of the knock sensor the knock sensor is positioned in the cylinder head, it is probably hard to describe because these type of engines are not used in any cars other than the Australian ford falcon.
the early commodore V6 is based an a Front wheel drive buick V6 but has been signifigantly redesigned to suit our rear wheel drive cars, hence it is also very different to any american or japanese engines. the only common engine i can think of is the RB series inline 6's that were used in the 1987 Commodore and the Nissan Skyline but they have the piezoelectric knock sensor in the block.
actually if you remember the old EGR valves that where used on emissioned carb fed inline 6's that were tapped in to the exhaust manifold and ran to a valve on the inlet manifolds, the "aussie" knock sensor is in the same place, dead smack in the middle of the manifold
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Thank God for the internet, that most abundant fountain of misinformation and bullsh!t. :roll:
OP: take your mechanic's advice, and quit reading the FUD at about.com, or the outrageous misinformation here on ATOT. 2 tanks of premium won't hurt your minivan (they tell people that just to keep them from buying premium unnecessarily), and you already admitted it made the ping go away (at least for now). I would also recommend checking your oil at your next fill-up (with premium) and don't be surprised if consumption is up a little. There may been some blow-by, which would be good.
OP: take your mechanic's advice, and quit reading the FUD at about.com, or the outrageous misinformation here on ATOT. 2 tanks of premium won't hurt your minivan (they tell people that just to keep them from buying premium unnecessarily), and you already admitted it made the ping go away (at least for now). I would also recommend checking your oil at your next fill-up (with premium) and don't be surprised if consumption is up a little. There may been some blow-by, which would be good.
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