Aaahhhh, I understand now. Thanks.
It figures, the oil companies here choose the "better" number.....
geno
Lifer
- Dec 26, 1999
- 25,074
- 4
- 0
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: smithdj
Running 92 or even 93 (where available) will not fix the problem. The only "quick" okay not too expensive possible fix is to have the intake manifold clean which will clean the carbon deposits off of the valves and the tops of the pistons. The dealer should not be a cheap a$$ and do it for you. They hook a bottle full of cleaner stuff (cant remember the brand) to the intake via a vacuum line and let it burn through the engine, it takes about 20 minutes. The bad side, where do you think all of that crap goes? Right down the sides of the pistonsSeriously, have them do this, if not for free, it should cost $40
Yes, Mopar makes a product called Combustion Chamber Cleaner/Conditioner. Have them run a couple of cans through your engine. It'll smoke like mad, but it works.
I've heard SeaFoam works wonders...
And as for the OP, your engine shouldn't ping with 87 Octane, I'd try to have the dealership take a closer look at your motor.
Here are my points,
# 1 The knock sensor, if it has one, could be faulty....sign of dealer ripping you off..
# 2 Running higher octane than nessasary won't nessesarily hurt the engine, but it definately won't help. Except for the slight detergent properties..
# 3 You can use plain water siphoned into the intake manifold in a car at running temperature to get rid of carbon buildup.
# 4 Pinging will be a lot more prevalent in the summer months when the A/C is on. You could go up a rating if its really hot outside.
# 5 You can actually run a LOWER octane fuel in a car that is rated for premium fuel (especially in the winter) without harm. (as long as its not pinging)
# 6 that is all.....
# 1 The knock sensor, if it has one, could be faulty....sign of dealer ripping you off..
# 2 Running higher octane than nessasary won't nessesarily hurt the engine, but it definately won't help. Except for the slight detergent properties..
# 3 You can use plain water siphoned into the intake manifold in a car at running temperature to get rid of carbon buildup.
# 4 Pinging will be a lot more prevalent in the summer months when the A/C is on. You could go up a rating if its really hot outside.
# 5 You can actually run a LOWER octane fuel in a car that is rated for premium fuel (especially in the winter) without harm. (as long as its not pinging)
# 6 that is all.....
They told you to use 92 to reduce carbon build-up? Bwahahahaha!
Anything over 87 is a waste for all cars (except supercharged, turbocharged, and other high-performance cars that require "Premium Fuel"), and they were pulling your leg to get you out of the shop.
Anything over 87 is a waste for all cars (except supercharged, turbocharged, and other high-performance cars that require "Premium Fuel"), and they were pulling your leg to get you out of the shop.
87 Octane rating..BAH HAHAHA, Australia's lowest rating is 93 for our regular unleaded, our premium is rated at 95-97 and our high quality premium (VORTEX, OPTIMAX etc) is rated at 98-99. damn I would hate to have to fuel up my car in the US, the engine would run like sh*t with such a low octane rating, although i have to use an octane booster with some regular unleaded depending on where i buy it, my compression ratio is just a tad bit high for some cheaper unleaded, 9.5:1 instead of the factory 8.9:1 in my 1986 Ford Falcon S.
Actually in most EFI cars the use of premium unleaded can be very benifical, if the computer is able to recalibrate itself for different timings, most car in australia can do this and show an improvement when using premium. regular unleaded is high in toulene to help cut costs which can cause excessive carbon buildup, premium has a lower content of this and can be used to clean deposits of carbon.
with that said I would prefer to see the return of good ole SUPER - octane rating of 100, nothin like leaded petrol, much safer to handle and work with and much better for engines, despite what the government tells people unleaded petrol is far more toxic than leaded petrol, and the only reason that reason that leaded fuel was removed from the market was because it killed the catalytic converters in cars, not because it polutes more. 2000 was a sad year for Aussie motorists when leaded fuel was removed from the market, my old 1978 falcon was never the same even after having the engine converted to unleaded with hardened valve seats and a cat fitted. it's more difficult to start and is very fumey compared to how it was pre 2000.
Not going to read through all the responses, but I'll offer my advice for what it's worth. I've had just about every problem imaginable with my own car and have had to figure it out for myself (and fix it myself), so I know how hard it can be to get good advice.
The easiest thing to do is pull one or more of the spark plugs. If there's a problem in the engine, the deposits on or coloration of the spark plugs will usually give you a very good indication of what's going on. There are a lot of things that can cause pinging, and most of them will be apparent when you pull the plugs. This site has a pretty good guide with pictures. Spark plugs can be replaced for about $2 and 2 minutes per plug, so it's at least worth a shot. PM me if you have any questions, as I don't check this forum all that often.
One last thing: make sure you have a proper bit to pull spark plugs with. If you have the ratchet already, then you can pick up the bit at any auto parts store for a couple bucks.
The easiest thing to do is pull one or more of the spark plugs. If there's a problem in the engine, the deposits on or coloration of the spark plugs will usually give you a very good indication of what's going on. There are a lot of things that can cause pinging, and most of them will be apparent when you pull the plugs. This site has a pretty good guide with pictures. Spark plugs can be replaced for about $2 and 2 minutes per plug, so it's at least worth a shot. PM me if you have any questions, as I don't check this forum all that often.
One last thing: make sure you have a proper bit to pull spark plugs with. If you have the ratchet already, then you can pick up the bit at any auto parts store for a couple bucks.
hey that sounds correct, matbe the plug gap may need checking, it's not hard to muck it up, but if you have the factory maintainence guide it will tell you what the gap should be, an incorrect gap setting can cause pinging under certain conditions
What? You're saying the computer "recalibrates" itself based on the octane? With the octane sensor? :roll:
I disagree that lower grades of petrol have appeciable different amounts of carbon causing contaminents.
lower octane rated fuels may have less cleaning additives than higher octane rated fuels of the same brand.
OK, I got stuck here for longer than I thought so I did read through the entire thread.
On a 2001 car, there is no reason you should have such buildup on your engine unless something pretty unusual happened. How many miles does the car have? I assume you've followed the routine maintenance for the car (oil changes, et cetera) fairly closely? My car has almost 200,000 miles on it and I've never had buildup problems, despite not always following the maintenance guidelines. I'm not necessarily familiar with all the intimate details of newer engines (mine is a 1990), but I'm guessing there's a less severe cause for your problems. As I said before, try checking the spark plugs. I'd also check the air filter (takes two minutes and it's a simple visual inspection: if it's dirty, replace it and your problem might go away). I'd just hate to see you get taken for a ride on a newer car, so like I said, feel free to PM me if you're at all skeptical before making any kind of investment.
On a 2001 car, there is no reason you should have such buildup on your engine unless something pretty unusual happened. How many miles does the car have? I assume you've followed the routine maintenance for the car (oil changes, et cetera) fairly closely? My car has almost 200,000 miles on it and I've never had buildup problems, despite not always following the maintenance guidelines. I'm not necessarily familiar with all the intimate details of newer engines (mine is a 1990), but I'm guessing there's a less severe cause for your problems. As I said before, try checking the spark plugs. I'd also check the air filter (takes two minutes and it's a simple visual inspection: if it's dirty, replace it and your problem might go away). I'd just hate to see you get taken for a ride on a newer car, so like I said, feel free to PM me if you're at all skeptical before making any kind of investment.
The computer will advance or retard the ignition to get the best out of the gas you are running.
Common practice in cars. SAAB had it back in 1985 and they made a test and drove the car to the now defunct Soviet Union, filled it up with premium 54 octane domestic Soviet fuel and drove back again. It worked but it wasn't going fast.
no not an octane sensor, but a modern EFI engine can detect temperature changes via the knock sensor in an engine which is what occurs when you use a different fuel such as premium in a regular unleaded engine, it will then recalibrate the timing to suit, and can yeild a small improvement, most aussie efi engine have been able to due this since the introduction of the EEC computer in the falcon and the delco computer in the commodore based cars. my 1986 falcon has a mrked improvement when running premium instaed of regular, it can gain anothe 40km's per tank and is more responsive down low during acceration, the same goes for my parents 1999 Falcon and all of my friends EFI based commodores.
yes that is what the knock sensor does, it detects temperature changes in the exhaust which can because by pinging, it then instructs the computer to retard or advance the ignition timing depending on what temp read outs it sends, using fuels with different octane ratings it result in different temps being recorded by the sensor and it will dajsut accordingly.
I don't know what they teach you guy's in the US about automotive engneering but obviously it is very little.
I don't know what they teach you guy's in the US about automotive engneering but obviously it is very little.
I don't see how my knock sensor is going to detect changes in the exhaust when its mounted to the intake manifold. It detects KNOCKS hence the name.
are you sure we are talking about the same sensor, the inlet manifold sensor is called an airflow meter , maybe these sensors have different names in different countries, but here in Australia the knock sensor is located in the exhaust manifold, and is used to measure temperatures from the combustion chamber, is is impossible to detect temperature changes in the inlet manifold as fresh air is always flowing through it, engine knocks "pinging" result in far greater combustion chamber temperatures and is detected via the exhaust manifold where it is most evident.
NutBucket
Lifer
- Aug 30, 2000
- 27,127
- 616
- 126
You're talking about different things. The MAF (or mass airflow) sensor is mounted in the intake track to measure the amout of air. Other cars use MAP (manifold air pressure) to calculate the amount of incoming air. The only sensor that can measure exhaust temperature is a pyrometer and I don't know of any car that has one stock. There's an IAT (intake air temperature) sensor mounted in the manifold that measure the temperature of the incoming air.
You're full of it if you think the knock sensor is mounted on the exhuast manifold. All my factory service manuals clearly show the knock sensor mounted on the block and its function is not to measure temperature. That's what the various temperature senders are for.
I didn't read all of this but the dealer might tell you it was spark knock which is common in older cars with 87 octane. However it would only be under accelleration and would not be "loud". If it is a loud "pinging" start looking at valves. Knocks are another expensive story. It could also be carbon on the pistons. Put your foot in it and hope it goes the wat of the exhaust or settles back in.
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