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8: The Mormon Proposition

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PokerGuy said:
No, they didn't endorse any political group. They simply pushed a proposition that agreed with their belief system, and apparently the majority of people in CA agreed with them. Then the whiners came out in droves. A proposition is not the same as a candidate or group.
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TAX FREE

pfft.. Religion is a sickness that America needs healed from
 
If the "documentary" doesn't give significant credit for Prop 8 passing to the fact that many Latinos (who are deeply Catholic) and inner-city/urban blacks (where being gay can be a death sentence) voted 'Yes' then it's completely worthless.
 
sactoking said:
If the "documentary" doesn't give significant credit for Prop 8 passing to the fact that many Latinos (who are deeply Catholic) and inner-city/urban blacks (where being gay can be a death sentence) voted 'Yes' then it's completely worthless.
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see now THESE are constructive points that I didn't think of. Thanks for suggesting them (unlike previous posters).
 
sactoking said:
If the "documentary" doesn't give significant credit for Prop 8 passing to the fact that many Latinos (who are deeply Catholic) and inner-city/urban blacks (where being gay can be a death sentence) voted 'Yes' then it's completely worthless.
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Homerboy said:
see now THESE are constructive points that I didn't think of. Thanks for suggesting them (unlike previous posters).
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I agree. Thank you sactoking.
 
PokerGuy said:
No, they didn't endorse any political group. They simply pushed a proposition that agreed with their belief system, and apparently the majority of people in CA agreed with them. Then the whiners came out in droves. A proposition is not the same as a candidate or group.
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So your disagreeing with Pisa, Mormons (not the church, the people who go to the church) do not back any candidates or groups?
I was talking in general, not just this proposition.
 
Homerboy said:
see now THESE are constructive points that I didn't think of. Thanks for suggesting them (unlike previous posters).
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Are you going to answer my question from before?

Do you think that the LDS involved in any way with the initiatives in Arizona and Florida?
 
Yes, keep blaming it on the Mormons, instead of the idiots that voted for it.


It makes people feel better to be able to blame something other than the fact that people have something against gays. This is across religion/race/party/etc.
 
Drako said:
Are you going to answer my question from before?

Do you think that the LDS involved in any way with the initiatives in Arizona and Florida?
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I have no idea... I'm waiting for the documentary on it 😉
If you back-read the thread, you never answered MY question on what was so bad about the documentary. In fact it took a 3rd party, sactoking, to point out some of the potential flaws.

So why would I answer yours before you answered mine?
 
PokerGuy said:
The only ones "afraid" of anything are the idiots on the left who seem to be against anyone having an opinion they don't approve of.
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What kind of idiocy is that?

Righty: I'm for not letting gays marry!

Lefty: I think you are immorally discriminating against gays with that inequality.

Pokerguy: "You're afraid that I have an opinion you don't approve of!"
 
OCGuy said:
Yes, keep blaming it on the Mormons, instead of the idiots that voted for it.


It makes people feel better to be able to blame something other than the fact that people have something against gays. This is across religion/race/party/etc.
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Oh i blame those idiots as much if not more. My point is that these idiots (be definition, they'd be easily influenced by commercials, rallies, flyers, door-to-door, etc) fell for the lobbying of which, per this documentary, strongly suggests was supported (mostly out of State) by the LDS church.
 
OCGuy said:
Yes, keep blaming it on the Mormons, instead of the idiots that voted for it.
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The lie in this part of your post is that you misrepresent the fact the polls were very much against prop 8 until the Mormon money. They deserve blame for their position.

It makes people feel better to be able to blame something other than the fact that people have something against gays. This is across religion/race/party/etc.
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The lie in this part of your post is that frequent church goers had a large majority FOR discrimination, non-church goers had a large majority AGAINST discrimination; Republicans had a large majority FOR discrimination while Democrats had a large majority AGAINST discrimination.

You equate them like it's the same regardless of religion and political party.

That's false.
 
OCGuy said:
Yes, keep blaming it on the Mormons, instead of the idiots that voted for it.


It makes people feel better to be able to blame something other than the fact that people have something against gays. This is across religion/race/party/etc.
Click to expand...

It is kind of absurd that people are blaming Mormons from another state when they couldn't even vote. It comes down the fact that California residents are the ones that voted, LDS mobilizing more people to vote for it just means that even more Californians were for it. If the people aren't for it they could have spent a billion dollars and it would have failed. Taking into consideration what Sactoking brought up, I doubt even more that they had as much of an effect as some wish they did.
 
^ Polls dont mean shit. That is why we actually vote.

When someone calls and polls people, they can say whatever they want. But in the privacy of a voting booth, the biggotry may come out.

Majority of (D) voting against prop 8 isnt good enough. If they are supposed to be the party of tolerance, and the party of the non-fundie religious people, it should be damn near unanimous.

There is no excuse for such a solid Blue state passing that law. The fact is that people, even in the most liberal states, generally are against gay marriage.
 
Craig234 said:
The lie in this part of your post is that you misrepresent the fact the polls were very much against prop 8 until the Mormon money. They deserve blame for their position.
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Yea sure the majority was against it till them dirty Mormons started spending their money, then they all just changed their minds 🙄
 
Homerboy said:
I have no idea... I'm waiting for the documentary on it 😉
If you back-read the thread, you never answered MY question on what was so bad about the documentary. In fact it took a 3rd party, sactoking, to point out some of the potential flaws.

So why would I answer yours before you answered mine?
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I answered you question in one simple to understand statement, and here it is again:

There were a lot of factors involved with Prop 8 getting passed - the movie completely glosses over most of them.

A browse through wikipedia points out many of these factors.

There are a lot of nuances that happen during elections, and some things will push the buttons of certain people different ways. One example of this is Gavin Newsom's infamous "whether you like it or not" quote from that time. If seemed to piss of a lot of people for some reason. So blame Gavin Newsom, not the LDS 🙂.
 
Drako said:
I answered you question in one simple to understand statement, and here it is again:

There were a lot of factors involved with Prop 8 getting passed - the movie completely glosses over most of them.

A browse through wikipedia points out many of these factors.

There are a lot of nuances that happen during elections, and some things will push the buttons of certain people different ways. One example of this is Gavin Newsom's infamous "whether you like it or not" quote from that time. If seemed to piss of a lot of people for some reason. So blame Gavin Newsom, not the LDS 🙂.
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So this was your response to my question... and you feel that YOU didn't "gloss over most [all] of them" yourself?
 
PokerGuy said:
The only ones "afraid" of anything are the idiots on the left who seem to be against anyone having an opinion they don't approve of.
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So it is a left thing to care about the rights of a minority group being trampled on because of a ignorant populace. The right, strong believers of the constitution and personal rights, could give a shit less.
 
let me ask this question, and again I'm not trying to institute a war, or for that matter, designate out which side of the fence I am on...

but for those of you saying that the majority voted the way they were going to vote, do you not think that the countless barrage of "advertising" that was pro-8 didn't influence the voting at all? Do you think all those campaign commercials, fliers, rallies, radio spots, door-to-door salesmen for election candidates do not sway voters at all?
 
FuzzyBee said:
QFT.

You'd think Craig, in his infinite wisdom, would know this.
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Craig is a staunch proponent of direct democracy. Until the voters disagree with him, at which point they are idiots.

In the world of a leftist, true freedom is the right to agree with them.
 
Homerboy said:
let me ask this question, and again I'm not trying to institute a war, or for that matter, designate out which side of the fence I am on...

but for those of you saying that the majority voted the way they were going to vote, do you not think that the countless barrage of "advertising" that was pro-8 didn't influence the voting at all? Do you think all those campaign commercials, fliers, rallies, radio spots, door-to-door salesmen for election candidates do not sway voters at all?
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For me, it actually had the opposite of the intended affect.

I probably would have abstained from voting on prop 8, as I don't feel strongly either way about it.
 
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