6700K price going up??? Now $399.99 @ Newegg

[Techhog]

Buy a 4790K then.

That's not a full substitute to do being an older product and not supporting DDR4.

 

[Fjodor2001]

I know nothing about European taxation. I thought the VAT was in lieu of income tax, boy was I wrong. They get you coming, going, and everywhere in between over there.

Yep. Here's a worst case example to show you the effect of roughly how much is left of a salary increase of $100 in the end, assuming you buy gas for your money (which is highly taxed in most European countries):

Company pays salary: $100
After social security taxes (30%): $70
After income tax (marginal tax 55%): $31.5
After petrol tax (60%): $12.5

So of the $100, $87.5 vanishes in taxes and only $12.5 is left in the end.

Sweet!

 

[Arachnotronic]

That's not a full substitute to do being an older product and not supporting DDR4.

Runs the same programs, doesn't it?

 

[Phynaz]

Yep. Here's a worst case example to show you the effect of roughly how much is left of a salary increase of $100 in the end, assuming you buy gas for your money (which is highly taxed in most European countries):

Company pays salary: $100
After social security taxes (30%): $70
After income tax (marginal tax 55%): $31.5
After petrol tax (60%): $12.5

So of the $100, $87.5 vanishes in taxes and only $12.5 is left in the end.

Sweet!

Dude, really? An 87.5% tax rate??

And then VAT when you go to spend what's left. Explains the love for cheap CPUs.

 

[fourdegrees11]

If LGA-2011 boards werent so expensive building a 5820k based system right now would be a no-brainer vs 6700k IMO

 

[crashtech]

If LGA-2011 boards werent so expensive building a 5820k based system right now would be a no-brainer vs 6700k IMO

It's also a no-brainer if the 6700K simply can't be had for other than absurdly inflated prices.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Dude, really? An 87.5% tax rate??

And then VAT when you go to spend what's left. Explains the love for cheap CPUs.

I doubt his example holds in any country. I am sure he also forgot deductibles.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Dude, really? An 87.5% tax rate??

And then VAT when you go to spend what's left. Explains the love for cheap CPUs.

VAT was included in the petrol tax. So "only" 87.5% tax in total...

But note that this was a worst case example where marginal tax was used since the example was for an additional $100 salary. And also petrol is higher taxed than most other products except perhaps alcohol, tobacco, and similar.

A more realistic example would be to use "average income tax" of perhaps 40% (instead of 55% marginal tax), and just VAT of 20% (instead of 60% petrol tax). All else equal though.

So for such an example:

Company pays salary: $100
After social security taxes (30%): $70
After average income tax (40%): $42
After VAT (20%): $33.6

So of the $100, $66.4 vanishes in taxes and $33.6 is left in the end.

Still a lot of tax...

 

[Fjodor2001]

I doubt his example holds in any country. I am sure he also forgot deductibles.

It at least holds roughly for Scandinavian countries, and probably some other European countries too. Since you come from Denmark you should know.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It at least holds roughly for Scandinavian countries, and probably some other European countries too. Since you come from Denmark you should know.

Yes, hence your claim is false. Its not even remotely close to reality here.

Let me give you an example. A person earning 360000DKK a year only pays 123657DKK in tax (calculator at skat.dk), assuming the person lives in Copenhagen. The only tax left for that person is VAT on the items he or she purchases. So of your "100$", 47.5$ goes to the total tax including VAT. And the person is left with 52.5$. And even that may most likely not be true due to more deductibles or similar subsidized things. For example if the person also buys medicine, he or she gets money back there.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If LGA-2011 boards werent so expensive building a 5820k based system right now would be a no-brainer vs 6700k IMO

The X99 boards actually aren't too bad in price - you can get them in the same price range as some of the nicer Z170 boards in all honesty. And heck, with 5820Ks regularly going on sale in the $280-$320 range, you're still saving roughly $100 off the price of the gouged 6700s in many cases. Of course, Microcenter has many of the good deals on the 5820/5930s and they're also only charging $359 for the 6700K, so you have a lot of nice options if you're close to a Microcenter.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yes, hence your claim is false. Its not even remotely close to reality here.

Let me give you an example. A person earning 360000DKK a year only pays 123657DKK in tax (calculator at skat.dk), assuming the person lives in Copenhagen. The only tax left for that person is VAT on the items he or she purchases. So of your "100$", 47.5$ goes to the total tax including VAT. And the person is left with 52.5$. And even that may most likely not be true due to more deductibles or similar subsidized things. For example if the person also buys medicine, he or she gets money back there.

Yea, taxes are bad, but it is not the whole story. Dont you get highly subsidized medical care and college education?

I live in the US, and the highest tax rate is only 30-some %, but I also pay 10% of my income for health insurance, with still a lot of deductibles, and anyone who goes to college without rich parents can easily accrue 25 to 50,000 dollars in debt for just a 4 year degree.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yea, taxes are bad, but it is not the whole story. Dont you get highly subsidized medical care and college education?

I live in the US, and the highest tax rate is only 30-some %, but I also pay 10% of my income for health insurance, with still a lot of deductibles, and anyone who goes to college without rich parents can easily accrue 25 to 50,000 dollars in debt for just a 4 year degree.

Both are free. 1 year maternity leave too, 6 weeks paid vacation etc etc.

We do get something back. Its not like we pay tax to nothing.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Yes, hence your claim is false. Its not even remotely close to reality here.

Let me give you an example. A person earning 360000DKK a year only pays 123657DKK in tax (calculator at skat.dk), assuming the person lives in Copenhagen. The only tax left for that person is VAT on the items he or she purchases. So of your "100$", 47.5$ goes to the total tax including VAT. And the person is left with 52.5$. And even that may most likely not be true due to more deductibles or similar subsidized things. For example if the person also buys medicine, he or she gets money back there.

You're forgetting the social security tax (aka "employer social fee") that the employer pays before you even see your salary statement. In e.g. your neighboring Scandinavian country Sweden it's around 30%:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden

It's lower in e.g. Norway though.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You're forgetting the social security tax (aka "employer social fee") that the employer pays before you even see your salary statement. In e.g. your neighboring Scandinavian country Sweden it's around 30%:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden

Then you should refer to Sweden and not Scandinavia.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Then you should refer to Sweden and not Scandinavia.

Denmark has such social security taxes too, but lower.

Anyway, I said it's "roughly" true for Scandinavian countries, and some European countries. The taxation differs a bit between these countries, e.g. some have higher income tax but on the other hand lower social security taxes. But the total tax burden does not differ that much between them.

Scandinavian countries are among the highest taxed in the world.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Denmark has such social security taxes too, but lower.

No they dont.

 

[Fjodor2001]

No they dont.

Yes, you do (it's just called "Arbejdsmarkedsbidrag" in Denmark):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Denmark

All income from employment or self-employment is taxed at 8% before income tax. This tax is termed a "gross tax" (Danish: Arbejdsmarkedsbidrag).

Also, this:

Under the Danish tax system, it is possible for a high-wage earner to pay up to 51.5% of their total income after gross tax, giving a total of 57% of total income.

So up to 57%. Then 25% VAT on top of that. Then you end up at the levels I mentioned before.

 

[bystander36]

Yes, you do (it's just called "Arbejdsmarkedsbidrag" in Denmark):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Denmark

Also, this:

So up to 57%. Then 25% VAT on top of that. Then you end up at the levels I mentioned before.

Except that the 25% VAT isn't taken off your income, but off your purchases (at least this is how I've read it). So you get 43% of their currency to spend, and 25% of the 43% goes toward VAT. So it's not 82% tax. It's 68% by your numbers.

Of course I don't really understand their system, just pointing out an obvious math error.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yes, you do (it's just called "Arbejdsmarkedsbidrag" in Denmark):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Denmark

Also, this:

So up to 57%. Then 25% VAT on top of that. Then you end up at the levels I mentioned before.

Arbejdsmarkedsbidrag is part of the income tax.

Also you should really set yourself into the actual tax rules before you make a bigger fool out of yourself. To pay the taxes you try to portrait you are ranking in serious high pay. And we talk way over 250K$ a year. One of the parts that people dont get is the deductibles.

Stick to something you know, Danish tax isn't one of those.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Arbejdsmarkedsbidrag is part of the income tax.

Also you should really set yourself into the actual tax rules before you make a bigger fool out of yourself. To pay the taxes you try to portrait you are ranking in serious high pay. And we talk way over 250K$ a year. One of the parts that people dont get is the deductibles.

Stick to something you know, Danish tax isn't one of those.

No it's not part of the income tax. Again:

All income from employment or self-employment is taxed at 8% before income tax. This tax is termed a "gross tax" (Danish: Arbejdsmarkedsbidrag).

And of course, to get the absolute max tax level you'll have to earn quite much. But even mid/high level salaries get taxed a lot in Scandinavian countries, at around the levels I mentioned before.

It's really embarrassing how little you know about the tax in your own country. Matches the knowledge you have in most other areas too though.

 

[ShintaiDK]

If the wiki is your source of information I can see why you go wrong.

A person earning ~102K$ (~700K DKK) pays 291764DKK in tax. However its before deductibles. And can easily end below 35% as effective tax instead of 41.7%.

205K$ ends you at 46%. 410K$ at 49% and so on. But again, without extra deductibles like loans, transportation distance and so on.

But this all got the thread derailed when you started with your 87.5% nonsense.

 

[Headfoot]

IMO the 5820k is a no brainer over the newly increased price 6700k. You can find the Asrock X99 Extreme4 for $160 AR, which is extremely reasonable given that it has a solid featureset (at least equal if not better than similarly priced z170 boards). It ends up being about the same cost as a 6700k build since they both use DDR4. Even more of a no-brainer if you're near a microcenter

 

[ShintaiDK]

IMO the 5820k is a no brainer over the newly increased price 6700k. You can find the Asrock X99 Extreme4 for $160 AR, which is extremely reasonable given that it has a solid featureset (at least equal if not better than similarly priced z170 boards). It ends up being about the same cost as a 6700k build since they both use DDR4. Even more of a no-brainer if you're near a microcenter

An updated X99 board with multiple M.2 or simply just PCIe for SSDs is also to be preferred at that price range. Since there is no bottlenecks associated.

 

[Fjodor2001]

First I'm glad to see you admitted the "gross tax" / "Arbejdsmarkedsbidrag" in Denmark is not part of the income tax. But in your usual manner, you simply did that by failing to respond to it, instead of simply admitting you were wrong. Then this:

If the wiki is your source of information I can see why you go wrong.

If you think it's wrong, go ahead and edit it and see what the other contributors to the article will think of that.

But this all got the thread derailed when you started with your 87.5% nonsense.

As I stated, that was a "worst case scenario", and it is correct as such. I also provided a more "normal" scenario ending up at around 65% tax. That is also correct. You're yet to prove it wrong.

If you want to be living in denial thinking the tax is less in Scandinavian countries (and some other European countries), fine by me. But you're only fooling yourself, nobody else.