60 minutes eviscerates Lumber Liquidators

[brycejones]

I'm not an expert, but I do watch Flipping Vegas occasionally... On that show they say you need to let the laminate sit in the house for a while before you install it, so that it "acclimates" to the local humidity, etc. This prevents warping, according to the show.

Your supposed to do that with any wood floor product.

 

[Ns1]

is there a non video link or related article?

 

[irishScott]

is there a non video link or related article?

For a quick summary:

Lumber Liquidators Chinese-made laminate flooring violates federal and California state safety standards by containing as much as 20x the maximum allowed amount of formaldehyde.

Formaldehyde at those levels can cause cancer and asthma among other nastiness, especially in kids. Hence the safety standards.

Said laminated flooring is falsely marked as standards-compliant at the Chinese factories, all of them.

Founder/CEO of Lumber Liquidators denies everything until he's shown video of Chinese plant managers stating, quite bluntly, that the stickers are a lie and that it isn't standard compliant. So at best there's a severe breakdown in communication/oversight, at worst it's authorized by said CEO because it's 10% cheaper. The fact that the CEO acted guilty as hell and answered questions so evasively would seem to indicate complicity, I'm surprised he agreed to be interviewed.

 

[Ns1]

:thumbsup:

 

[Humpy]

It is amazing to me how many contractors are out there that are terrible at their jobs. I suspect it is because the consumer just doesnt know any better. It isnt like going to a retail outlet with branding. These are a lot of times small organizations or a crew that goes from house to house. But one would think for them to continue to get new business. It would often times be passed word of mouth. Which in like the case you are talking about end their ability to find new work pretty quick.

An endless supply of consumers who shop solely by price will lead to a supply of contractors who compete solely on price. They deserve each other.

American's can't get enough cheap crap wrapped in shiny marketing. I don't feel even a twitch of empathy when they get bit by their choices. 🙂

 

[Fanatical Meat]

For a quick summary:

Lumber Liquidators Chinese-made laminate flooring violates federal and California state safety standards by containing as much as 20x the maximum allowed amount of formaldehyde.

Formaldehyde at those levels can cause cancer and asthma among other nastiness, especially in kids. Hence the safety standards.

Said laminated flooring is falsely marked as standards-compliant at the Chinese factories, all of them.

Founder/CEO of Lumber Liquidators denies everything until he's shown video of Chinese plant managers stating, quite bluntly, that the stickers are a lie and that it isn't standard compliant. So at best there's a severe breakdown in communication/oversight, at worst it's authorized by said CEO because it's 10% cheaper. The fact that the CEO acted guilty as hell and answered questions so evasively would seem to indicate complicity, I'm surprised he agreed to be interviewed.

Just imagine if TPP gets fast tracked this level of formaldehyde could be legal and you could actually be taken to court for suggesting its dangerous

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I look forward to watching this, did explain what the reason is for adding that much formaldehyde was?

 

[DrPizza]

I only got three planks as a sample, but I'm now concerned that the wood itself may have been cut illegally. I even wondered if that might not be the case since their hardwood prices are in my opinion, outstanding. 3.99 a sq foot for solid 3/4 in x 3 maple on sale and 5.?? for 3/4 x 5 in with aluminum oxide in the finish. Installation is 4 bucks a foot and 1 dollar for premium padding, which I will also now wonder about what it contains.

Premium padding... for 3/4 inch hardwood? :\ Educate me please. I'll be installing 1000 sq ft of 3/4 x4" oak soon. What's this padding? (Usually, you would use something like felt paper - its purpose is to prevent wood from squeaking from being against the wood subfloor. IMHO, premium underlayment is merely an upsell for no particular purpose.)

 

[Jimzz]

I'm not an expert, but I do watch Flipping Vegas occasionally... On that show they say you need to let the laminate sit in the house for a while before you install it, so that it "acclimates" to the local humidity, etc. This prevents warping, according to the show.

Laminate should not need to acclimate if its a good product. Cheaper laminates that use cheaper fiber board materials and questionable glues may need to sit in the house but chances are it will have problems from quality down the line no matter.

Real hardwood does need to acclimate and its recommended for engineered as well. We let our hardwood sit for about 5-6 days before we started to use it. Also used a moisture meter to gauge the air to make sure it was also in range. You don't want to install hardwood in a dry cold season without setting the conditions correct or you will have issues.

 

[Jimzz]

Premium padding... for 3/4 inch hardwood? :\ Educate me please. I'll be installing 1000 sq ft of 3/4 x4" oak soon. What's this padding?

Never used a padding for solid hardwood. Just a vapor barrier like tar paper for example when I installed.

 

[MongGrel]

I was going to watch it but the thing asking for too many no script links and not bothering.

My whole house is laminate nowadays, but most of it is Pergo, or Armstrong or older versions I suppose....

It all has vapor barrier and pretty thick felt padding, I did it myself I guess.

I always thought the padding was more for laminate myself, I doubt it's needed on hardwood.

 

[MongGrel]

Premium padding... for 3/4 inch hardwood? :\ Educate me please. I'll be installing 1000 sq ft of 3/4 x4" oak soon. What's this padding? (Usually, you would use something like felt paper - its purpose is to prevent wood from squeaking from being against the wood subfloor. IMHO, premium underlayment is merely an upsell for no particular purpose.)

The premium felt padding is mostly for laminate I believe, it muffles it, so I used a reasonably high grade myself, as laminate can be loud when walking on without a buffer and gives it some flex for expansion as its a thinner floor.

 

[DrPizza]

The premium felt padding is mostly for laminate, it muffles it as laminate can be loud when walking on without a buffer and give it some flex I believe.

Right - it has some advantages for sound dampening. But that's not going to matter with a 3/4" product.

Rings a bell though - when I was checking prices at a LL, some salesman kept bouncing a golf ball off two laminates and was already working on some sort of upsell before I even told him what product I was even interested in. Looks like an Ethan Allen hardwood; from Lowes, unless someone knows where to get similar quality for cheaper.

 

[irishScott]

I look forward to watching this, did explain what the reason is for adding that much formaldehyde was?

It wasn't "added", just made with a cheaper manufacturing method. Apparently the Formaldehyde is in the glue used on all laminate flooring, but the cheaper glues have a lot more. It's only about 10% cheaper, but we're talking a billion dollar industry, so 10% is a lot of money.

 

[MongGrel]

Right - it has some advantages for sound dampening. But that's not going to matter with a 3/4" product.

:thumbsup:

 

[Humpy]

Premium padding... for 3/4 inch hardwood? :\ Educate me please. I'll be installing 1000 sq ft of 3/4 x4" oak soon. What's this padding? (Usually, you would use something like felt paper - its purpose is to prevent wood from squeaking from being against the wood subfloor. IMHO, premium underlayment is merely an upsell for no particular purpose.)

Padding would only be used for a floating floor, which could be nearly any thickness/type flooring material, to dampen the sound of the finished floor slapping on the subfloor when walked over.

Nail down (and of course glue down) will not use padding. The purpose of felt paper (tar paper, rosin paper, etc.) is to act as a vapor barrier to slow down any moisture (i.e. from a basement) that may enter the unfinished side of the flooring and cause cupping. Squeaks are overwhelmingly caused by floor boards rubbing against each other and against fasteners. Though the paper certainly isn't going to increase squeaking, it won't do much to damp them.

 

[shabby]

Just imagine if TPP gets fast tracked this level of formaldehyde could be legal and you could actually be taken to court for suggesting its dangerous

But its the state that says its dangerous, would the tpp basically say that all health and safety regulations are simply suggestions now?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

From what I understand standards could end up being more agreed upon by everyone in the treaty, so yes it could. I'll admit there is a huge amount of speculation because nobody is brave enough to talk about the terms.

This is about food safety
http://www.exposethetpp.org/TPPImpacts_FoodSafety.html

Seems like the States that produce stuff are responsible for inspection to international standards.

 

[MustISO]

It's made in China, what did you expect.

 

[theeedude]

Wasn't there an issue with Chinese drywall too? Seems like consumers never learn.

 

[Greenman]

People are going to have their flooring tested now, and if it contains to much formaldehyde their going to demand that it be removed and replaced at the very least. If they're having health issues as well, LL is going to be sued out of business, rightfully so.

 

[Ns1]

Wasn't there an issue with Chinese drywall too? Seems like consumers never learn.

LOLchina

 

[stormkroe]

Lol at padding under 3/4" hw, felt or craft paper also cuts down enormously on dust from the sub floor (osb is the worst offender).
Also, while tile will usually solve the look/durability trade dilemma, I've grown very fond of the distressed or hand scraped hard wood floor. Every new ding just adds to its custom design.

 

[Moonbeam]

Premium padding... for 3/4 inch hardwood? :\ Educate me please. I'll be installing 1000 sq ft of 3/4 x4" oak soon. What's this padding? (Usually, you would use something like felt paper - its purpose is to prevent wood from squeaking from being against the wood subfloor. IMHO, premium underlayment is merely an upsell for no particular purpose.)

What Humpty said. I will float the floor on concrete. The pad is a thin layer of felt and a plastic sheet.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Carpets. Every room.