60 minutes eviscerates Lumber Liquidators

[Blanky]

It is amazing to me how many contractors are out there that are terrible at their jobs. I suspect it is because the consumer just doesnt know any better. It isnt like going to a retail outlet with branding. These are a lot of times small organizations or a crew that goes from house to house. But one would think for them to continue to get new business. It would often times be passed word of mouth. Which in like the case you are talking about end their ability to find new work pretty quick.

I have an otherwise fairly intelligent co-worker who, on advice of a third co-worker, used a guy to tile his bathroom. As an amateur fixer-upper dude around my own house I can say simply that this guy had no business tiling a bathroom. He had no idea whatsoever how to properly tile a shower and keep it from leaking. This was affirmed by a plumber who came in and said the guy had no idea what he was doing. But, my co-worker is so impressed with the handyman's ability to cut tile (seriously), that he nonetheless had the same guy come in and tile his back splash recently and this was AFTER the bathroom started to subsequently leak due to aforementioned incompetency with tiling. My co-worker has thrown caulk everywhere all throughout his bathroom to try to repair an underlying fault in how it was tiled, and he doesn't seem to know any better. Doesn't know that the guy who did it just didn't know what he was doing, and never asked/researched the proper way.

So, some people are just stupid and don't learn.

 

[Blanky]

Right - it has some advantages for sound dampening. But that's not going to matter with a 3/4" product.

Rings a bell though - when I was checking prices at a LL, some salesman kept bouncing a golf ball off two laminates and was already working on some sort of upsell before I even told him what product I was even interested in. Looks like an Ethan Allen hardwood; from Lowes, unless someone knows where to get similar quality for cheaper.

Perhaps you mean Allen Roth. I bought a thousand square feet of Allen Roth from Lowes on Saturday. Not a great deal about the product online, but it seems to be made by Unilin, and when I contacted Lowes yesterday online the guy on the chat window assured me the stuff is made in the USA. If it shows up at the store with Made in China stickers, just to be safe, I will refuse delivery and buy something else. This stuff is well reviewed, though, and $1.99/square 10mm with pad already attached. pergo is $2.50. There is also clickable hardwood (bamboo of various colors), which is compelling, but not at the $5/square cost.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Carpets. Every room.

Carpets.

Who the hell wants a bare floor?

Well, hardwood last longer, easier to clean, especially if you have pets and or children. The only rooms I have carpeting in my house is the 3 bedrooms.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Wasn't there an issue with Chinese drywall too? Seems like consumers never learn.

Yes

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_drywall

 

[highland145]

I look forward to watching this, did explain what the reason is for adding that much formaldehyde was?

The high formaldehyde glue was cheaper.

Wasn't there an issue with Chinese drywall too? Seems like consumers never learn.

And pet food, iirc.

The problem is that Americans don't/didn't know. This is one area where testing/intervention by the government would be very welcome. Same with the food products that come in.

Carpets. Every room.

Carpets.

Who the hell wants a bare floor?

Must not have allergies.

 

[1prophet]

The high formaldehyde glue was cheaper.

And pet food, iirc.

The problem is that Americans don't/didn't know. This is one area where testing/intervention by the government would be very welcome. Same with the food products that come in.
Must not have allergies.

Oh bullshit, Americans have been brainwashed to look for the cheapest, because cheapest is best, and their cheap chinese chickens are coming home to roost.

I have no more sympathy for Americans getting screwed because of their own greed,

than a John who complains that the cheap prostitute he visited, because his American girlfriend/wife was too demanding, gave him aids and stole his wallet.

 

[highland145]

Oh bullshit, Americans have been brainwashed to look for the cheapest, because cheapest is best, and their cheap chinese chickens are coming home to roost.

I have no more sympathy for Americans getting screwed because of their own greed,

than a John who complains that the cheap prostitute he visited, because his American girlfriend/wife was too demanding, gave him aids and stole his wallet.

Thank walmart. And I have no sympathy for getting screwed because of greed either but this is different.

I bet that if I told you sheet rock A was cheap but would cause cancer or sheet rock B was 15% more expensive but was safe, you'd choose B.

Well, I would choose B. You still might choose A.

 

[HomerJS]

Perhaps you mean Allen Roth. I bought a thousand square feet of Allen Roth from Lowes on Saturday. Not a great deal about the product online, but it seems to be made by Unilin, and when I contacted Lowes yesterday online the guy on the chat window assured me the stuff is made in the USA. If it shows up at the store with Made in China stickers, just to be safe, I will refuse delivery and buy something else. This stuff is well reviewed, though, and $1.99/square 10mm with pad already attached. pergo is $2.50. There is also clickable hardwood (bamboo of various colors), which is compelling, but not at the $5/square cost.

FYI Pergo currently on sale at Lowes 10% off or std installation .99/sq ft

 

[Humpy]

FYI Pergo currently on sale at Lowes 10% off or std installation .99/sq ft

I don't know what Pergo is, but for $.99/sq ft who gives a fuck.

 

[HomerJS]

I don't know what Pergo is, but for $.99/sq ft who gives a fuck.

Prego brand of laminate flooring. Seems like good stuff.

 

[smackababy]

I don't know what Pergo is, but for $.99/sq ft who gives a fuck.

Pergo is just a name brand of laminate flooring IIRC.

 

[Dulanic]

Thank walmart. And I have no sympathy for getting screwed because of greed either but this is different.

I bet that if I told you sheet rock A was cheap but would cause cancer or sheet rock B was 15% more expensive but was safe, you'd choose B.

Well, I would choose B. You still might choose A.

The main issue that most consumers hard is it is VERY difficult to find out whether it is product A or B as it gets relabeled etc.. Even worse is cases where they label it as one thing and it is actually another. Sometimes consumers are willfully ignorant and they are to blame then, but a lot of times they are lied to.

 

[schmuckley]

wait..wut?
Do they sell that wide bamboo? cuz that's awesome!
Flooring @ Lowe's or Home Depot is such a ripoff..
I could get it for 20% of what those jokers charge.
Any decent local flooring company will most likely save you 40% over Lowe's / Home Depot..and have better product.

 

[Zstream]

wait..wut?
Do they sell that wide bamboo? cuz that's awesome!
Flooring @ Lowe's or Home Depot is such a ripoff..
I could get it for 20% of what those jokers charge.
Any decent local flooring company will most likely save you 40% over Lowe's / Home Depot..and have better product.

Allure plank flooring is awesome. I'm not sure what you're talking about but I've had no issues with this stuff and its the most scratch resistant material I've ever seen.

 

[dank69]

Carpets. Every room.

Carpet is for trailer trash

 

[DrPizza]

What Humpty said. I will float the floor on concrete. The pad is a thin layer of felt and a plastic sheet.

Now, you've got me really confused. How do you float 3/4" hardwood flooring?
From what I understand, 1. never use hardwood over concrete; engineered is okay for over concrete. 2. 3/4" hardwood is nailed down. Nailed down isn't "floating" any more than installing nailed down on top of a sheet of plywood is "floating." Before you spend close to $10/square foot, you might want to get the opinion of some professionals in your area, or ask people here like Greenman.

I am not a flooring expert. But, in case it makes a difference for you, you can start reading here: http://www.armstrong.com/flooring/floating-hardwood-floor.html Note what it says - you cannot float solid hardwood; only engineered hardwood floors. And, you said "solid maple" which implies to me that it's not an engineered product.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Maybe they have to float the hardwood floors in San Francisco to help reduce the potential earthquake damage.

 

[Moonbeam]

Now, you've got me really confused. How do you float 3/4" hardwood flooring?
From what I understand, 1. never use hardwood over concrete; engineered is okay for over concrete. 2. 3/4" hardwood is nailed down. Nailed down isn't "floating" any more than installing nailed down on top of a sheet of plywood is "floating." Before you spend close to $10/square foot, you might want to get the opinion of some professionals in your area, or ask people here like Greenman.

I am not a flooring expert. But, in case it makes a difference for you, you can start reading here: http://www.armstrong.com/flooring/floating-hardwood-floor.html Note what it says - you cannot float solid hardwood; only engineered hardwood floors. And, you said "solid maple" which implies to me that it's not an engineered product.

Thanks for your input. I am investigating this.

 

[IronWing]

Carpets. Every room.

That will take care of the formaldehyde problem.

 

[Cerb]

Carpets. Every room.

You think Chinese carpet labeled with a GLP logo will be any better?

 

[MongGrel]

Prego brand of laminate flooring. Seems like good stuff.

Was one of the first laminates, if not the first long ago.

Pergo at any rate.

Yeah it was.

Laminate flooring was invented in 1977[8] by the Swedish company Perstorp, and sold under the brand name Pergo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminate_flooring

 

[Sonikku]

For a quick summary:

Lumber Liquidators Chinese-made laminate flooring violates federal and California state safety standards by containing as much as 20x the maximum allowed amount of formaldehyde.

Formaldehyde at those levels can cause cancer and asthma among other nastiness, especially in kids. Hence the safety standards.

Said laminated flooring is falsely marked as standards-compliant at the Chinese factories, all of them.

Founder/CEO of Lumber Liquidators denies everything until he's shown video of Chinese plant managers stating, quite bluntly, that the stickers are a lie and that it isn't standard compliant. So at best there's a severe breakdown in communication/oversight, at worst it's authorized by said CEO because it's 10% cheaper. The fact that the CEO acted guilty as hell and answered questions so evasively would seem to indicate complicity, I'm surprised he agreed to be interviewed.

Sounds like the real culprit here is the the government and all their bothersome nanny state regulations getting in the way of a company just trying to lower costs and run a business.

 

[Humpy]

Now, you've got me really confused. How do you float 3/4" hardwood flooring?
From what I understand, 1. never use hardwood over concrete; engineered is okay for over concrete. 2. 3/4" hardwood is nailed down. Nailed down isn't "floating" any more than installing nailed down on top of a sheet of plywood is "floating." Before you spend close to $10/square foot, you might want to get the opinion of some professionals in your area, or ask people here like Greenman.

I am not a flooring expert. But, in case it makes a difference for you, you can start reading here: http://www.armstrong.com/flooring/floating-hardwood-floor.html Note what it says - you cannot float solid hardwood; only engineered hardwood floors. And, you said "solid maple" which implies to me that it's not an engineered product.

It says "You can only float Armstrong engineered hardwood floors, not solid hardwoods." Be careful with marketing literature.

Depending on how it's milled, solid wood flooring can be edge glued to create a single layer floating floor. It can also be nailed down to non-fastened plywood to create a multi-layered floating floor. We use a lot of concrete slabs with radiant heat in my area where it would be risky to drive fasteners into the slab. In this instance the installers will often use the floating plywood with any hardwood over it and sometimes foam under to dampen noise. It can be over concrete or any other surface.

The main thing that matters here is to understand the properties of the material and environment you are working with and managing expectations. For example, wood flooring over concrete isn't really the issue. One issue is moisture moving through concrete, or temperature differences causing condensation, that leads to unexpected movement of the flooring. Those things can be controlled.

 

[Humpy]

Prego brand of laminate flooring. Seems like good stuff.

Sorry. I was just making a lame sarcastic comment about cheap flooring in a thread about problems with cheap flooring.

 

[Matt1970]

Thank walmart. And I have no sympathy for getting screwed because of greed either but this is different.

I bet that if I told you sheet rock A was cheap but would cause cancer or sheet rock B was 15% more expensive but was safe, you'd choose B.

Well, I would choose B. You still might choose A.

If the greed didn't exist, this problem likely wouldn't have happened.