$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[Kaido]

I like your enthusiasm but you need to look beyond the surface and do some research. Blue Cruise is pile of horse manure. Maybe Doug Fields and his new team can improve Blue Cruise with his knowledge from Tesla and Apple. But I wouldn't mention Blue Cruise as a pro right now.

I actually like the self-driving in our Subaru, and like it better than Tesla on the highway. It has EyeSight with lane-centering. There's no city self-driving stuff yet, but having done multiple triples in both various Tesla FSD vehicles & in our Subie, at the moment, the Subaru is better in my hands-on experience over thousands of miles on both systems over the last couple of years. But, that's also as good as our Forester will ever get, as there's no OTA updates or anything, and I'm sure Tesla will improve over time. The Nissan Pro Pilot (I think it's 2.0 now) is also pretty good. Blue Cruise is actually really cool, especially with the true hands-free experience on pre-mapped highways, which I thought was dumb at first, but is actually really neat!

One thing that scares me about Teslas right now is the phantom braking issue. This has been a problem since inception & seems to have gotten worse. It gives you a heart attack when it happens!

Tesla has a serious phantom braking problem in Autopilot

Tesla is seeing an increase in complaints over serious and dangerous phantom braking events plaguing Autopilot in the latest software...

electrek.co

I really question Tesla's decision to both get rid of radar & not use LIDAR at all because then the self-driving system becomes completely useless in heavy rain, fog, snow, etc. Like, I don't know how they can claim to have a full self-driving system that doesn't operate in inclement weather. I live in New England & it's murky out quite often. This article is a really great deep-dive into the pros & cons of a radar-less system:

Why radar is doomed

Tesla has decided to remove radar from its cars and focus its autonomous driving approach on cameras alone. According to critics, this change will compromise safety in situations that block vision (bad weather, direct sunlight, dust). In this article we look at the strengths and weaknesses of...

www.voltequity.com

I think it's going to be at least 10 years before we see a truly "clean" version of a FSD system. I'd love to see it happen sooner than that, but stuff like city driving is just so complex. I've done a few test-drives at the Meatpacking branch in NYC & I don't think I'd be brave enough to try the beta in the city lol:

We tried Tesla's 'full self-driving.' Here's what happened

When a dozen small children crossed in front of our Tesla with "full self-driving," I had good reason to be nervous.

www.cnn.com

For now, having done road trips with multiple systems, and for "today", I still really prefer hardware by a LARGE margin over Tesla's software, including for TACC & Stop & Go functions.

 

[Kaido]

Funny... I never see the Tesla fanboys complaining when Consumer Reports writes a positive review about their product. People seem to forget that they rated the Model 3 a "Top Pick" just a few years ago.

I've gotta say, as more of my friends & clients have gotten Tesla's...I'm amazed at how bad the quality is here in 2021. The panel gaps are atrocious. Not to mention paint issues, rattles, plastic panels popping loose, etc. There's a whole "Delivery 2.0" checklist that people do now when they get their vehicles, where the truck brings it, they inspect it, then have them take it directly to the local Tesla repair center to get fixed before the "actual" delivery. The reality is the reality. I'm a huge Tesla fan, but I don't wear rose-colored glasses when looking at them. They have faults & they have issues, from hardware to software and especially customer service.

The customer service is probably the biggest reason I don't have a Tesla right now...I can't be without my car for weeks on end. My buddy ran a software update on his Tesla, which bricked it, and it took them a week or two just to get a tow truck out to him, and he was out of his car for nearly a month. Whereas there's like a zillion Ford dealerships in the area & a ton more shops that can service my ICE vehicle, I can easily get a loaner vehicle from the dealership, etc. I'm hoping by the time the Cybertruck comes out, things will be a bit more sorted out with the service wait times & communication capabilities (plus hopefully it's a bit more of a reliable machine, being stamped out of metal haha!).

P.S. How's the Stinger?

 

[Commodus]

On the tangent of perfection...I've driven just about every EV out there. HUGE Tesla fanboy. Didn't like Ford calling the Mach-E a Mustang. Didn't (initially) care for the design. Test-drove a Mach-E...imo it's the best EV on the market. Jumping into the design side of things, you can tell that Tesla was designed by Silicone Valley, vs. the Mach-E was designed by a car company. The differences on paper won't sound like much, but if you ever get the chance to test-drive both in-person, the Mach-E is what I consider to be the best EV on the market right now. Plus Blue Cruise is actually hands-free on the highway! And I bet when the Lightning comes out, that will be an even better EV than the Mach-E. And I say that holding a Cybertruck reservation lol.

I'd be happy to drive a Mustang Mach-E — if the charging network were better. I want to know I can go on a roadtrip without worrying if there will be enough chargers (and that they'll all work) along the way. Tesla may paradoxically make that easier in the near future as it opens up Superchargers.

 

[zinfamous]

I've never denied I'm full drunk on koolaid. I told people before I bathe in it. It's no secret I'm up to my eyeballs with Tesla stock and options. I've bet my entire family fortune on Elon Musk. I'm fully in the Elon Musk cult, and I like it. But unlike others, I've done my research. So I know what I'm talking about when I talk Tesla and Elon Musk. I have financial incentive to see Tesla succeed and do well. I know Musk can be an asshole. So can I. I find him refreshing and entertaining. I do find all the Elon Musk and Tesla hate amusing. Carry on.

It's very hard to argue with people that are fully aware and accepting of their insanities.

 

[bigi]

jesus christ

superstar

 

[bigi]

Funny... I never see the Tesla fanboys complaining when Consumer Reports writes a positive review about their product. People seem to forget that they rated the Model 3 a "Top Pick" just a few years ago.

Consumer Reeport s does not matter. Especially for Tesla. Nobody who is in long line to get a Tesla will not stop because of them. They know better.
Look at sales numbers in the past 18 months. Consumer reportss is nothing, just anohter pos. For those who belive they run charity do buy their recommended whatever. LoL.

 

[bigi]

Please don't claim the media is being paid to attack Tesla. I'm sure you love your EVs for valid reasons, but calling them "perfection" suggests you're in no position to indicate what's fair or not.

Good journalism criticizes. Good journalism looks at the broader picture and raw data rather than owners' anecdotal experiences. Tesla has a known, verifiable issue with build quality; that doesn't represent every owner's experience, but it's the truth.

(Side note: "do your own research" is a red flag, as it's the same language anti-vaxxers use when actual research doesn't rubber stamp their fantasies.)

It is a bit different. The "media" is not being paid by Tesla and that's a big thing. They are being paid billions by all others, so it is easy not to be objective. Billions of AD money do matter to the media because this is why those exist.
And no, "media" does not exist to enrich our lives with information.

In any case, this is irrelevant now. The paid FUD has lost its power.

All of the Lutz, Chanos, Kolodnys, Toilet Boys, Linette Lopez, Gordonn Johnnson and many more have been pumping FUD left and right. All are such losers that even Twitter does work for them anymore.


Good journalism had died around late 80's early 90's. Now it is paid advertising.

 

[Commodus]

It is a bit different. The "media" is not being paid by Tesla and that's a big thing. They are being paid billions by all others, so it is easy not to be objective. Billions of AD money do matter to the media because this is why those exist.
And no, "media" does not exist to enrich our lives with information.

In any case, this is irrelevant now. The paid FUD has lost its power.

All of the Lutz, Chanos, Kolodnys, Toilet Boys, Linette Lopez, Gordonn Johnnson and many more have been pumping FUD left and right. All are such losers that even Twitter does work for them anymore.


Good journalism had died around late 80's early 90's. Now it is paid advertising.

Can you provide the evidence those automakers are paying the press for anti-Tesla coverage? Not hand-waving "look, it's all around you" claims, not anecdotal it-kinda-looks-like-it stories, actual evidence. I want to see the email from Ford or GM offering money in return for an anti-Tesla hit piece, or the sudden change in tone after an ad campaign starts. Don't have evidence? Then don't make the claim.

Good journalism is still around. It's just that you don't like what it sometimes has to tell you. Many (if not most) outlets have an explicit separation between editorial and advertising teams precisely to avoid the conflicts you're so worried about.

Also: sales and pre-order figures don't support your claims that Tesla has no significant problems. That's a classic "appeal to popularity" fallacy — it just shows that people are interested enough in Tesla cars to buy them, not that they feel those cars are flawless. Ask those people what they feel a year later (or even a few months later), once the bloom is off the rose, and they'll give you a more accurate assessment.

Look, it's not that hard: don't confuse your personal enthusiasm for Tesla with the experience of the broader customer base. It's okay to enjoy a product while acknowledging that problems exist. And it's a demonstrable truth that problems exist with Tesla.

 

[manly]

Apple has become very popular in the last decade+ for a reason: it's a cult that targeted and captured a specific market, despite the long-standing limitations of their products. Very shrewd. I like Tesla and want them to get better, but there's a bit of a stench to being a Tesla driver these days, haha.

I followed Apple for many years, and you could never accuse them of below industry standard build quality. The most common complaint was low bang for the buck, but that's kind of why the entire class of "luxury goods" exists. People pay extra for branding.

But yeah, Steve Jobs RDF was basically the blueprint for Elon Musk.

Finally, iPhone has approx. 50% market share in the U.S. If that's a cult, they're even bigger than the GQP.

Funny... I never see the Tesla fanboys complaining when Consumer Reports writes a positive review about their product. People seem to forget that they rated the Model 3 a "Top Pick" just a few years ago.

Years before that, they liked the Model S so much they said it broke their 100 point rating scale.

bigi is here purely for our comedic value. Last time, he claimed Electrek is owned by Volkswagen Group.

 

[ponyo]

I actually like the self-driving in our Subaru, and like it better than Tesla on the highway. It has EyeSight with lane-centering. There's no city self-driving stuff yet, but having done multiple triples in both various Tesla FSD vehicles & in our Subie, at the moment, the Subaru is better in my hands-on experience over thousands of miles on both systems over the last couple of years. But, that's also as good as our Forester will ever get, as there's no OTA updates or anything, and I'm sure Tesla will improve over time. The Nissan Pro Pilot (I think it's 2.0 now) is also pretty good. Blue Cruise is actually really cool, especially with the true hands-free experience on pre-mapped highways, which I thought was dumb at first, but is actually really neat!

Like I said I love your enthusiasm, but you tend to scan teslamotors Reddit subreddit and regurgitate the headlines there. Have you seen BlueCruise in action? You can only use it on select pre-mapped highways and even then it can't even handle moderate turns. It's embarrassing. Have you seen Sandy Munroe's Mach-E teardown videos and his Ford's BlueCruise driving test? You should watch it. Then tell me again with straight face that Ford's BlueCruise is really good.

It's like Biden saying GM electrified the entire auto industry.

"Mary, I can remember talking to you way back in January about the need for America to lead in electric vehicles. And I can remember your dramatic announcement that by 2035, GM would be 100% electric.

You changed the whole story, Mary, wherever — [applause] — wherever you are. There you are. You did, Mary. You electrified the entire automobile industry. I’m serious. You led — and it matters — in drastically improving the climate by reducing hundreds of millions of barrels of oil that will not be used when we’re all electric."

It's absolutely incorrect and outright dishonest lie. Biden administration is so corrupt and in bed with the UAW that they can't even say the word: Tesla. I really think Biden has forbid anyone in his administration from saying the word.

 

[Kaido]

I'd be happy to drive a Mustang Mach-E — if the charging network were better. I want to know I can go on a roadtrip without worrying if there will be enough chargers (and that they'll all work) along the way. Tesla may paradoxically make that easier in the near future as it opens up Superchargers.

Man, the Superchargers by me are already maxed out...wonder how it will be if it's an open or even a partnered network!

 

[zinfamous]

Like I said I love your enthusiasm, but you tend to scan teslamotors Reddit subreddit and regurgitate the headlines there. Have you seen BlueCruise in action? You can only use it on select pre-mapped highways and even then it can't even handle moderate turns. It's embarrassing. Have you seen Sandy Munroe's Mach-E teardown videos and his Ford's BlueCruise driving test? You should watch it. Then tell me again with straight face that Ford's BlueCruise is really good.

It's like Biden saying GM electrified the entire auto industry.

"Mary, I can remember talking to you way back in January about the need for America to lead in electric vehicles. And I can remember your dramatic announcement that by 2035, GM would be 100% electric.

You changed the whole story, Mary, wherever — [applause] — wherever you are. There you are. You did, Mary. You electrified the entire automobile industry. I’m serious. You led — and it matters — in drastically improving the climate by reducing hundreds of millions of barrels of oil that will not be used when we’re all electric."

It's absolutely incorrect and outright dishonest lie. Biden administration is so corrupt and in bed with the UAW that they can't even say the word: Tesla. I really think Biden has forbid anyone in his administration from saying the word.

You're nuts.

GM is like 50-60% of the US auto industry. Tesla is less than 5%?

What GM does is far, far, far more important to actually changing the industry than what a tiny, barely there, can't even sell finished cars, car company does. That's just how it is. You should know these things.

Look, plenty of little restaurants and grocery stores and fast food places were pushing free range, organic eggs for decades--but it wasn't that relevant for the actual food industry until about 6 or 7 years ago when McDonald's said they are going full organic with their egg McMuffin and all their eggs. They are like 60% of the egg purchasing in this country. It matters way more. As soon as they said that, the supply chain moved. Not before. It's the same with GM vs Tesla. This doesn't mean that Tesla isn't important or they haven't influenced these changes, they just don't have nearly the power to force the industry to change direction like GM does.

Stop being stupid.

 

[manly]

You're nuts.

GM is like 50-60% of the US auto industry. Tesla is less than 5%?

What GM does is far, far, far more important to actually changing the industry than what a tiny, barely there, can't even sell finished cars, car company does. That's just how it is. You should know these things.

Look, plenty of little restaurants and grocery stores and fast food places were pushing free range, organic eggs for decades--but it wasn't that relevant for the actual food industry until about 6 or 7 years ago when McDonald's said they are going full organic with their egg McMuffin and all their eggs. They are like 60% of the egg purchasing in this country. It matters way more. As soon as they said that, the supply chain moved. Not before. It's the same with GM vs Tesla. This doesn't mean that Tesla isn't important or they haven't influenced these changes, they just don't have nearly the power to force the industry to change direction like GM does.

Stop being stupid.

You didn't get the memo. Tesla will be selling 20M autos annually by 2030.

 

[ponyo]

You're nuts.

GM is like 50-60% of the US auto industry. Tesla is less than 5%?

What GM does is far, far, far more important to actually changing the industry than what a tiny, barely there, can't even sell finished cars, car company does. That's just how it is. You should know these things.

Look, plenty of little restaurants and grocery stores and fast food places were pushing free range, organic eggs for decades--but it wasn't that relevant for the actual food industry until about 6 or 7 years ago when McDonald's said they are going full organic with their egg McMuffin and all their eggs. They are like 60% of the egg purchasing in this country. It matters way more. As soon as they said that, the supply chain moved. Not before. It's the same with GM vs Tesla. This doesn't mean that Tesla isn't important or they haven't influenced these changes, they just don't have nearly the power to force the industry to change direction like GM does.

Stop being stupid.

zinfamous, I love you man but you're wrong. GM is dead. GM is lead by moron Mary. She's absolutely clueless and the wrong person for the job. GM is not important. GM used to be important but that's the ICE era. That's history and the future is EV. And the future of EV is Tesla and not GM. Tesla is dragging these dinosaur legacy automakers to EV world kicking and screaming whether they want to or not. Biden praising GM for leading the EV revolution would be equivalent to Woodrow Wilson praising some horse saddle company for leading the automobile revolution when Henry Ford was cranking out Model T by the millions. GM doesn't even have EV on the market right now.

Tesla is the most important company today and going forward. What they're doing matters so much more than GM. Tesla is leading and the rest like GM are reluctantly following. Biden is foolishly trying to help his UAW buddies. Red flag went up when Biden first announced he was running for President and the very first fundraiser for the Biden campaign was private fundraising event led by Jim Chanos and held at Chanos house. But I dismissed it since I knew Biden and Chanos were friends. Then another major red flag went up when Biden nominated and placed Missy Cummings at NHTSA. WTF. She's like the TSLAQ queen priestess. Stupid and biased as fuck against Tesla. And then you combine that with all the snubs of Elon Musk, Tesla, and SpaceX by the Biden administration, there's no more doubt where Biden stands. Biden is standing on the wrong side of history and it will cost him. Biden's pandering to the UAW will cost Democrats future elections.

 

[Kaido]

McDonald's said they are going full organic with their egg McMuffin and all their eggs. They are like 60% of the egg purchasing in this country

Holy crap! They sell 2.2 BILLION eggs a YEAR!!!

Sharing Progress on our Cage-Free Egg Commitment

McDonald’s USA announces that we are making significant progress towards our commitment to source

corporate.mcdonalds.com

 

[zinfamous]

zinfamous, I love you man but you're wrong. GM is dead. GM is lead by moron Mary. She's absolutely clueless and the wrong person for the job. GM is not important. GM used to be important but that's the ICE era. That's history and the future is EV. And the future of EV is Tesla and not GM. Tesla is dragging these dinosaur legacy automakers to EV world kicking and screaming whether they want to or not. Biden praising GM for leading the EV revolution would be equivalent to Woodrow Wilson praising some horse saddle company for leading the automobile revolution when Henry Ford was cranking out Model T by the millions. GM doesn't even have EV on the market right now.

Tesla is the most important company today and going forward. What they're doing matters so much more than GM. Tesla is leading and the rest like GM are reluctantly following. Biden is foolishly trying to help his UAW buddies. Red flag went up when Biden first announced he was running for President and the very first fundraiser for the Biden campaign was private fundraising event led by Jim Chanos and held at Chanos house. But I dismissed it since I knew Biden and Chanos were friends. Then another major red flag went up when Biden nominated and placed Missy Cummings at NHTSA. WTF. She's like the TSLAQ queen priestess. Stupid and biased as fuck against Tesla. And then you combine that with all the snubs of Elon Musk, Tesla, and SpaceX by the Biden administration, there's no more doubt where Biden stands. Biden is standing on the wrong side of history and it will cost him. Biden's pandering to the UAW will cost Democrats future elections.

you're not listening. you dismissed the reality on the ground by spouting reddit nonsense from a cult, and turning future predictions into some sort of abject truth. What GM might be some unlikely time from now has absolutely no bearing with the point I made. I don't why you don't get that.

were you always this nuts?

 

[ponyo]

you're not listening. you dismissed the reality on the ground by spouting reddit nonsense from a cult, and turning future predictions into some sort of abject truth. What GM might be some unlikely time from now has absolutely no bearing with the point I made. I don't why you don't get that.

were you always this nuts?

Just like it didn't matter how many dumb phones Nokia sold after Apple released the iPhone, it doesn't matter how many ICE vehicles GM sold yesterday, today, and tomorrow. You think I'm dismissing reality but it's actually you who's dismissing reality. Why do you think GM won't suffer the same fate as Nokia? GM will fail at EV and Toyota will eat GM lunch in the remaining ICE vehicle business. This is not some future prediction. It's reality for GM. GM is lost cause. Biden can keep looking foolish by saying GM electrified the entire automotive industry but people are not stupid.

 

[zinfamous]

Just like it didn't matter how many dumb phones Nokia sold after Apple released the iPhone, it doesn't matter how many ICE vehicles GM sold yesterday, today, and tomorrow. You think I'm dismissing reality but it's actually you who's dismissing reality. Why do you think GM won't suffer the same fate as Nokia? GM will fail at EV and Toyota will eat GM lunch in the remaining ICE vehicle business. This is not some future prediction. It's reality for GM. GM is lost cause. Biden can keep looking foolish by saying GM electrified the entire automotive industry but people are not stupid.

again, none of that matters with what happens to GM at any given date in the future, about changing supply lines now. That's the entire fucking point. GM could die tomorrow in a horrible miserable firey death (and I'd be fine with that), but it still only matters that their decision to overturn their inventory is what is going to influence the market now; not Tesla's. Tesla has no real influence to do any of this, any time soon.

You're trying to argue stock value which has absolutely no baring on the point that I have made 3 times now. You aren't arguing the same thing, at all. GM speaks, the market moves. That's it. That's the point. You know that's fucking true, so stop trying to trick yourself into thinking it isn't. There must be some shred of rational, twitching ganglion left buried beneath that swirl of Elon-colored sponge in your head, right?

Biden isn't looking foolish at all. You just can't tolerate any honest thing said about saint Musk. Everything you see is behind those taint-colored glasses. ...and you admit that. So, admit it and own it. Stop pretending that you can both own that and ignore that how you are seeing things is actually quite retarded.

 

[zinfamous]

oh by the way: 4 years after 2017--where is that $35,000 Telsa, eh?

 

[ultimatebob]

Just like it didn't matter how many dumb phones Nokia sold after Apple released the iPhone, it doesn't matter how many ICE vehicles GM sold yesterday, today, and tomorrow. You think I'm dismissing reality but it's actually you who's dismissing reality. Why do you think GM won't suffer the same fate as Nokia? GM will fail at EV and Toyota will eat GM lunch in the remaining ICE vehicle business. This is not some future prediction. It's reality for GM. GM is lost cause. Biden can keep looking foolish by saying GM electrified the entire automotive industry but people are not stupid.

You could argue that the first smartphones like the iPhone were toys for rich people until Google and their hardware partners like Motorola offered a cheaper smartphone that worked on any network and not just AT&T. Anybody remember the first Android phones like the Motorola Droid? I do. Not because it they were great phones, but because it forced Apple to compete on price and ushered in the era of "cheap" smartphones for everyone.

I don't think that electric cars have had their "Motorola Droid" moment yet. We really need it if we want electric cars to be cheap enough for everyone to buy. I don't think that GM will be the company that builds it, but someone needs to.

 

[manly]

You could argue that the first smartphones like the iPhone were toys for rich people until Google and their hardware partners like Motorola offered a cheaper smartphone that worked on any network and not just AT&T. Anybody remember the first Android phones like the Motorola Droid? I do. Not because it they were great phones, but because it forced Apple to compete on price and ushered in the era of "cheap" smartphones for everyone.

I don't think that electric cars have had their "Motorola Droid" moment yet. We really need it if we want electric cars to be cheap enough for everyone to buy. I don't think that GM will be the company that builds it, but someone needs to.

Made up history.

IIRC the launch price for the OG iPhone was high, but all smartphones were expensive at the time. Then not long afterwards, Apple slashed the price and it pissed off day 1 buyers. At the time, they were trying to upend the U.S. mobile industry. If you compare the OG iPhone to its competitors, it was a "great" device.

In year 2, starting with the iPhone 3G, they went to a standardized carrier-subsidized model. This worked so well that it lasted nearly a decade. You don't see the exact same deals today ($199 iPhone with 2 year agreement), but many of the best carrier deals are essentially the same. There's a lock-in period to get a large discount.

The reason iPhone has over 50% U.S. market share isn't because they were toys for rich people, but because they were accessible to the middle class. Back then, Apple never had to compete on price because the iPhone started at $649 and was usually carrier-subsidized every 2 years. They didn't even try to hit a lower price point until iPhone 5C, and they didn't succeed with an affordable model until iPhone SE in 2016.

Starting from 2007, if you were willing to stomach the then $80ish per line, you could get a heavily subsidized iPhone. It was this carrier-subsidized model that enabled the iPhone to grow like wildfire. If you couldn't afford an iPhone, it was because you couldn't afford the AT&T unlimited plan it required. Not strictly the hardware cost itself.

I forget who wrote the article where, but it argued that Apple 2.0's success lies in affordable products. We can debate whether an iPhone 13 Pro is affordable, but the success of the iPod proved to Steve Jobs & Co. that they could make a highly profitable product that sold well to the masses. They didn't need to be just a niche "PC" vendor. The best example of affordability is the iPad, but an unlocked $700 iPhone 13 that lasts 6 years certainly qualifies as well.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Can someone please tell me what this has to do with the Model 3?

 

[ultimatebob]

Can someone please tell me what this has to do with the Model 3?

It's relevant if you think about it... the Model 3 (in my mind, anyway) with it's $35,000 price tag was supposed to be the first affordably priced electric car for the mainstream. It ended up becoming a $50,000+ BMW and Audi competitor. It was still successful, but not in the way that I hoped.

A hope that the next lower cost Tesla actually hits it's price target while still being profitable to make.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

That could be said about of lot of automotive products when dealerships are allowed to add profit well beyond the reasonable for adding nothing of value.

 

[ponyo]

again, none of that matters with what happens to GM at any given date in the future, about changing supply lines now. That's the entire fucking point. GM could die tomorrow in a horrible miserable firey death (and I'd be fine with that), but it still only matters that their decision to overturn their inventory is what is going to influence the market now; not Tesla's. Tesla has no real influence to do any of this, any time soon.

You're trying to argue stock value which has absolutely no baring on the point that I have made 3 times now. You aren't arguing the same thing, at all. GM speaks, the market moves. That's it. That's the point. You know that's fucking true, so stop trying to trick yourself into thinking it isn't. There must be some shred of rational, twitching ganglion left buried beneath that swirl of Elon-colored sponge in your head, right?

Biden isn't looking foolish at all. You just can't tolerate any honest thing said about saint Musk. Everything you see is behind those taint-colored glasses. ...and you admit that. So, admit it and own it. Stop pretending that you can both own that and ignore that how you are seeing things is actually quite retarded.

You keep thinking GM changing their supply lines now is going to have huge impact on the market. Do you realize how crazy you sound? It just shows you how lack of touch you are with reality and your lack of knowledge about the current market. Nothing GM announces today will make them relevant today or tomorrow. The market doesn't care. Suppliers don't care. Chinese don't care. That ship has long sailed and passed. You're still stuck in the past thinking GM moves the market. Nothing could be further from the truth. Tesla is the market now. Tesla is the big gorilla. GM is like MySpace of yesterday. No one gives a shit about GM EV. Like I said, they don't even have EV on the market now.

No new mines will open because of GM. But new mines will open because of Tesla. When Tesla announced they would buy every single battery they could get their hands on, the battery companies took notice and wanted to sign deals. Countries and world leaders want to sign deals with Tesla. Countries are not asking to sign deals with GM. Because GM doesn't matter. When GM speaks, no one listens. The market doesn't move when GM talks because GM is irrelevant and no one believes GM anyway. When Tesla speaks, the market moves. You see that everyday. And that's 100% true today. And it will still be 100% true in the future. Tesla has about 63% of the EV market today. GM has like 9%. In the future, Tesla will likely settle between 15-35% of the market. GM will be under 1%. Why would any automotive supply company care about a company that's going to have less than 1% of the future market say today? Biden and Mary repeating the lie that GM is the EV leader and GM electrified the entire automotive industry is foolish talk and robs them of the little credibility they had remaining.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464333600216600578