$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[bbhaag]

The Maverick has the last-gen Carplay stuff (wired instead of wireless) because of the chip shortage. Crazy that cars get limited features due to COVID!

Yep, about half way through development Covid hit so Ford had to redesign the infotainment for the Mav to last gen components and use a smaller screen on the XL and XLT models. That's why if you look at the dash in the Mav to the right of the screen there is a 3 inch "cubby hole" in the dash.

It was suppose to get a larger screen and most likely will in a few years but for now it's smaller. Watcha gonna do though right? Not much Ford can do about a world wide virus circling the globe.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Maverick's screen showing the front camera eyeballing the Cybertruck.

 

[ultimatebob]

This isn't exactly good news for Tesla:

Tesla ranks almost dead-last on Consumer Reports reliability list

One of its flagship vehicles received a score of 5 out of 100.

www.sfgate.com

I thought that product quality was improving?

 

[Commodus]

This isn't exactly good news for Tesla:

Tesla ranks almost dead-last on Consumer Reports reliability list

One of its flagship vehicles received a score of 5 out of 100.

www.sfgate.com

I thought that product quality was improving?

It is, but Tesla hasn't really changed its mindset. This is the company that's shipping cars without USB-C ports (due to chip shortages) with a promise to retrofit them later; it's focused on maximizing deliveries and pushing tech, in that order, and quality is an issue.

Tesla does ultimately make many drivers happy, but it needs to pour more effort into refining its vehicles or it's going to get hurt as more incumbents make EVs. Hyundai showed that improving quality doesn't have to hurt your business; it's time Elon realized that.

 

[repoman0]

This isn't exactly good news for Tesla:

Tesla ranks almost dead-last on Consumer Reports reliability list

One of its flagship vehicles received a score of 5 out of 100.

www.sfgate.com

I thought that product quality was improving?

Of course the cars are POS, it’s one of the most toxic work environments out there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/11/19/tesla-sexual-harassment/

Those are the people building these cars. And Elon Musk responds by … promising to found TITS university. Good first step!

 

[ultimatebob]

It is, but Tesla hasn't really changed its mindset. This is the company that's shipping cars without USB-C ports (due to chip shortages) with a promise to retrofit them later; it's focused on maximizing deliveries and pushing tech, in that order, and quality is an issue.

Tesla does ultimately make many drivers happy, but it needs to pour more effort into refining its vehicles or it's going to get hurt as more incumbents make EVs. Hyundai showed that improving quality doesn't have to hurt your business; it's time Elon realized that.

So, does that mean that they're coming with USB-A ports right now, or it has nothing and you're just kinda screwed if you need to charge your phone and you don't have a 12V power adapter handy?

 

[Commodus]

So, does that mean that they're coming with USB-A ports right now, or it has nothing and you're just kinda screwed if you need to charge your phone and you don't have a 12V power adapter handy?

Nothing — the cutouts are there, but you can't charge your phone (even wirelessly) until you get the retrofit.

 

[manly]

It is, but Tesla hasn't really changed its mindset. This is the company that's shipping cars without USB-C ports (due to chip shortages) with a promise to retrofit them later; it's focused on maximizing deliveries and pushing tech, in that order, and quality is an issue.

Tesla does ultimately make many drivers happy, but it needs to pour more effort into refining its vehicles or it's going to get hurt as more incumbents make EVs. Hyundai showed that improving quality doesn't have to hurt your business; it's time Elon realized that.

Not sure how you can say product quality is improving if they ranked almost dead last. The nearly $100k Model X scored a 5/100? The weird thing is that everybody knows about panel gaps and poor paint quality, and 99% of buyers couldn't care less about "cosmetic" QC. It doesn't directly affect "reliability" and I don't know enough about CR's methodology to know if Tesla has a real problem here. To be clear, I'm not defending Tesla for poor QC; it's laughable that a so-called "luxury" car marque sells $60k vehicles with below industry standard fit and finish.

Their current mindset is profit maximization. Prices have increased substantially to capture excess profits in the currently insane new car market. Still it's pretty sad they're willing to go as far as to slightly gimp a few vehicles just to keep the sales channel humming. If I understand correctly, the quantities of affected consumers is low so it begs the question why even bother? You captured a few extra deliveries in current quarter that would have happened anyway next quarter? If they had simply disclosed it pre-delivery, most buyers would have accepted the car anyway to lock in the price.

Owner satisfaction is extremely high, which [partly] explains why 2020 Teslas are now worth more than their owners paid a year ago.

As an aside, EverydayDriver ranked the Model Y behind the Ford Mach-E recently:

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Mine work and I picked my car up last Saturday.

 

[Commodus]

Not sure how you can say product quality is improving if they ranked almost dead last. The nearly $100k Model X scored a 5/100? The weird thing is that everybody knows about panel gaps and poor paint quality, and 99% of buyers couldn't care less about "cosmetic" QC. It doesn't directly affect "reliability" and I don't know enough about CR's methodology to know if Tesla has a real problem here. To be clear, I'm not defending Tesla for poor QC; it's laughable that a so-called "luxury" car marque sells $60k vehicles with below industry standard fit and finish.

Their current mindset is profit maximization. Prices have increased substantially to capture excess profits in the currently insane new car market. Still it's pretty sad they're willing to go as far as to slightly gimp a few vehicles just to keep the sales channel humming. If I understand correctly, the quantities of affected consumers is low so it begs the question why even bother? You captured a few extra deliveries in current quarter that would have happened anyway next quarter? If they had simply disclosed it pre-delivery, most buyers would have accepted the car anyway to lock in the price.

Owner satisfaction is extremely high, which [partly] explains why 2020 Teslas are now worth more than their owners paid a year ago.

As an aside, EverydayDriver ranked the Model Y behind the Ford Mach-E recently:

There are reports of quality improving from people buying more recent models. It depends on how far back CR's rankings go, I imagine. If it's drawing heavily on purchases from 2020, for instance, that won't say much about a car you order right now (aside from that USB-C issue).

But you're right, Tesla is too eager to pump up its delivery numbers and show that it's still profitable. It needs to slow down and focus on higher-quality production.

The problem with other EVs is the charging network, unfortunately. While I'd love to have something like a Mach-E or the upcoming Nissan Ariya in my garage, it's a tough sell when charging may involve a game of "guess which chargers are actually working" at each stop. If and more likely when Tesla opens its Superchargers to other EVs, that could change everything.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

To an interesting retrospective on product quality ... who can say that found a lot of quality automotive products form the 1980's? And all those companies selling back then already had 50 years or more of development.

 

[JEDI]

The problem with other EVs is the charging network, unfortunately. While I'd love to have something like a Mach-E or the upcoming Nissan Ariya in my garage, it's a tough sell when charging may involve a game of "guess which chargers are actually working" at each stop.
If and more likely when Tesla opens its Superchargers to other EVs, that could change everything.

why would tesla do that?!

 

[Commodus]

why would tesla do that?!

That's the plan!

Part of it is that Musk previously said his goal was to electrify transport, not just to sell more cars. But I suspect he also sees this as the proverbial rising tide lifting all boats. The more people are comfortable buying EVs, the more likely they are to buy Teslas.

 

[ultimatebob]

That's the plan!

Part of it is that Musk previously said his goal was to electrify transport, not just to sell more cars. But I suspect he also sees this as the proverbial rising tide lifting all boats. The more people are comfortable buying EVs, the more likely they are to buy Teslas.

It's not a bad move... if Tesla is able to keep up with the rising demand for electric charging stations, they basically become the primary "gas station" for electric car owners. It will be like a modern day version of Standard Oil, except that the owner of it is an even richer billionaire than the last time this happened in history

 

[ponyo]

It's not a bad move... if Tesla is able to keep up with the rising demand for electric charging stations, they basically become the primary "gas station" for electric car owners. It will be like a modern day version of Standard Oil, except that the owner of it is an even richer billionaire than the last time this happened in history

Rob from Tesla Daily explains what this opening up the Tesla Supercharger move could mean for Tesla in the future.

 

[Kaido]

It's not a bad move... if Tesla is able to keep up with the rising demand for electric charging stations, they basically become the primary "gas station" for electric car owners. It will be like a modern day version of Standard Oil, except that the owner of it is an even richer billionaire than the last time this happened in history

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah about that...

 

[K1052]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah about that...

Kettleman is famous for this every year around thanksgiving. They’re building another one up the road.

 

[jlee]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah about that...

Good thing there have never been lines at gas stations

 

[ultimatebob]

Good thing there have never been lines at gas stations

The difference with the gas stations is that you can drive 2 miles up the road and find another gas station. If you need a Tesla Supercharger station, you're probably stuck in that line.

 

[Kaido]

Good thing there have never been lines at gas stations

The difference with the gas stations is that you can drive 2 miles up the road and find another gas station. If you need a Tesla Supercharger station, you're probably stuck in that line.

Well, not only that, but I timed my car, and its 2 minutes 30 seconds for a full tank of gas, from empty. So if you have 8 stalls, you can move a truckload of cars through every hour. Tesla has that 15-minute quick-charge feature, but now that's 5x as long per car to charge enough to get home.

 

[manly]

There are reports of quality improving from people buying more recent models. It depends on how far back CR's rankings go, I imagine. If it's drawing heavily on purchases from 2020, for instance, that won't say much about a car you order right now (aside from that USB-C issue).

But you're right, Tesla is too eager to pump up its delivery numbers and show that it's still profitable. It needs to slow down and focus on higher-quality production.

The problem with other EVs is the charging network, unfortunately. While I'd love to have something like a Mach-E or the upcoming Nissan Ariya in my garage, it's a tough sell when charging may involve a game of "guess which chargers are actually working" at each stop. If and more likely when Tesla opens its Superchargers to other EVs, that could change everything.

I read up on the CR methodology, and they go back pretty far (20 years). I've never considered CR a go-to resource for car buying, but the broad strokes of their reliability rankings are sensible (Toyota, Lexus and Mazda are top 3). Having said that, Mini is ranked #10 which is puzzling (jumping up from #23 last year). Finally, the Model 3 is rated 59, but the Y is only 18. These two models are close siblings and shouldn't diverge so much.

The thing about Tesla is they are very profitable right now with record margins, and esp. so after all the price hikes. At an annual run rate of well over 800k vehicles, it makes very little sense to ship out a relatively few incomplete cars without telling customers up-front. I doubt anybody would refuse the car with a promise of a retrofit. (The alternative is waiting a long time, and perhaps paying more?)

They can't really slow down until they open up the new Giga factories, or if demand softens. The panel alignment problems and paint issues have been well-known forever, and they just don't care. Nor do most consumers LOL.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Anyone buying a $60K or more electric vehicle and not figuring in the cost of a Level 2 charger isn't being serious. At least it is an option, unlike getting a gas pump installed at home. And for a similar set of gasoline buying experiences ... unless I go to Costco right when the pumps open up then its a long line, sometimes impossible to even get onto the Costco lot itself. And I filled up the tank on my truck on Saturday for a nice $60 bill. That's six charges for the Tesla.

 

[Commodus]

I read up on the CR methodology, and they go back pretty far (20 years). I've never considered CR a go-to resource for car buying, but the broad strokes of their reliability rankings are sensible (Toyota, Lexus and Mazda are top 3). Having said that, Mini is ranked #10 which is puzzling (jumping up from #23 last year). Finally, the Model 3 is rated 59, but the Y is only 18. These two models are close siblings and shouldn't diverge so much.

The thing about Tesla is they are very profitable right now with record margins, and esp. so after all the price hikes. At an annual run rate of well over 800k vehicles, it makes very little sense to ship out a relatively few incomplete cars without telling customers up-front. I doubt anybody would refuse the car with a promise of a retrofit. (The alternative is waiting a long time, and perhaps paying more?)

They can't really slow down until they open up the new Giga factories, or if demand softens. The panel alignment problems and paint issues have been well-known forever, and they just don't care. Nor do most consumers LOL.

I suspect the Model 3's low rating is due to more time on the market and the lower quality from those initial runs. The Model Y has had fewer chances to prove itself, and Tesla has supposedly been ramping up quality enough that it might shore up the Y's overall rating.

As for Mini... well, it might have improved quality, but I also wonder if the Cooper SE helps — it's harder to have breakdowns when you're using an electric motor.

I hope Tesla does slow down, at least. I'd love to get one, but I don't want to have to explain to my wife why the car we just received needs fixes for a creaky interior or panel gaps.

 

[bigi]

This isn't exactly good news for Tesla:

Tesla ranks almost dead-last on Consumer Reports reliability list

One of its flagship vehicles received a score of 5 out of 100.

www.sfgate.com

I thought that product quality was improving?

Why would you listen to anything from paid ad company? Tesla don't pay them, they write good about those who own them. Easy.

I own 2 teslas, have driven through 105 summer and 15 winter temps, supercharged endless times. Perfection that destroys everything in its path.

I am telling you, avoid paid anti-tesla articles. Teslas drive like butter and the "issues" reported were from paid FUD sources.

Do you vote and eat what media tells you? Good luck.

Remember kids, the media is just a paid AD outlet. Do your own research.

 

[Commodus]

Why would you listen to anything from paid ad company? Tesla don't pay them, they write good about those who own them. Easy.

I own 2 teslas, have driven through 105 summer and 15 winter temps, supercharged endless times. Perfection that destroys everything in its path.

I am telling you, avoid paid anti-tesla articles. Teslas drive like butter and the "issues" reported were from paid FUD sources.

Do you vote and eat what media tells you? Good luck.

Remember kids, the media is just a paid AD outlet. Do your own research.

Please don't claim the media is being paid to attack Tesla. I'm sure you love your EVs for valid reasons, but calling them "perfection" suggests you're in no position to indicate what's fair or not.

Good journalism criticizes. Good journalism looks at the broader picture and raw data rather than owners' anecdotal experiences. Tesla has a known, verifiable issue with build quality; that doesn't represent every owner's experience, but it's the truth.

(Side note: "do your own research" is a red flag, as it's the same language anti-vaxxers use when actual research doesn't rubber stamp their fantasies.)