$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[ultimatebob]

Chevy still makes the Bolt, no? It's not exactly my style, at least they have something electric on the market until the EV Hummer and Cadillac Lyriq come out next year.

 

[manly]

The Bolt is a huge flop and citing it as a counterexample is like saying in 2020 BMW had the i3, right? Both companies were innovative for a time (Chevy had the Volt plug-in, while BMW had the i3/i8) but they both didn't see huge market opportunity. Their good positioning as potential Tesla challengers slipped away, and now every manufacturer is going to a 100% EV strategy.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Chevy still makes the Bolt, no? It's not exactly my style, at least they have something electric on the market until the EV Hummer and Cadillac Lyriq come out next year.

The Volt/Bolt isn't even GM's first run at this. The EV1 from the mid/late 1990's was a disaster. Sold zero units because they refused to sell it and instead leased them with zero option to buy at the end of the lease. They didn't believe in it then, so why should we believe in them now? Its like the telephone companies offering to deploy fiber after a new competitor does it before them.

 

[zinfamous]

You keep thinking GM changing their supply lines now is going to have huge impact on the market. Do you realize how crazy you sound? It just shows you how lack of touch you are with reality and your lack of knowledge about the current market. Nothing GM announces today will make them relevant today or tomorrow. The market doesn't care. Suppliers don't care. Chinese don't care. That ship has long sailed and passed. You're still stuck in the past thinking GM moves the market. Nothing could be further from the truth. Tesla is the market now. Tesla is the big gorilla. GM is like MySpace of yesterday. No one gives a shit about GM EV. Like I said, they don't even have EV on the market now.

No new mines will open because of GM. But new mines will open because of Tesla. When Tesla announced they would buy every single battery they could get their hands on, the battery companies took notice and wanted to sign deals. Countries and world leaders want to sign deals with Tesla. Countries are not asking to sign deals with GM. Because GM doesn't matter. When GM speaks, no one listens. The market doesn't move when GM talks because GM is irrelevant and no one believes GM anyway. When Tesla speaks, the market moves. You see that everyday. And that's 100% true today. And it will still be 100% true in the future. Tesla has about 63% of the EV market today. GM has like 9%. In the future, Tesla will likely settle between 15-35% of the market. GM will be under 1%. Why would any automotive supply company care about a company that's going to have less than 1% of the future market say today? Biden and Mary repeating the lie that GM is the EV leader and GM electrified the entire automotive industry is foolish talk and robs them of the little credibility they had remaining.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464333600216600578

Tesla's winning at batteries. they don't even register anywhere when it comes to making cars.

That's a real difference.

Tesla could very easily get demolished in manufacturing vehicles (they need to make cars that work, at some point, don't you think?--I mean, it's got to be shitty to have worse reliability than GM), but continue on with batteries and charging network. Software and tech. Hell, it might be the smarter move if it comes down to it. Tesla is doing a lot of interesting things, but they still suck hard at making good cars. Yeah, I don't expect that to last, because the cult clearly doesn't care about rust and panel gaps, but the cult can only get so big, I think. (by the way--I don't think that is going to be happen. I'm still pulling for Tesla, I just think you remain willfully blind to everything involved here)

GM employs vastly more people everywhere, like other manufacturers, because of the demand for parts. You have to understand that this is all part of the system, so no matter who likes it, that is going to be a huge influence on how companies get favored. It's a good thing that electric cars make things simpler with shorter supplies, but that also represents a job whole to some degree, and politicians everywhere and the wider market never really likes that.

 

[manly]

Funny the guy who didn't understand why iPhone is a relevant comp for Tesla's ambitions thinks the 1996 EV1 is the determining factor for today's GM.

Tesla's winning at batteries. they don't even register anywhere when it comes to making cars.

That's a real difference.

Tesla could very easily get demolished in manufacturing vehicles (they need to make cars that work, at some point, don't you think?--I mean, it's got to be shitty to have worse reliability than GM), but continue on with batteries and charging network. Software and tech. Hell, it might be the smarter move if it comes down to it. Tesla is doing a lot of interesting things, but they still suck hard at making good cars. Yeah, I don't expect that to last, because the cult clearly doesn't care about rust and panel gaps, but the cult can only get so big, I think. (by the way--I don't think that is going to be happen. I'm still pulling for Tesla, I just think you remain willfully blind to everything involved here)

GM employs vastly more people everywhere, like other manufacturers, because of the demand for parts. You have to understand that this is all part of the system, so no matter who likes it, that is going to be a huge influence on how companies get favored. It's a good thing that electric cars make things simpler with shorter supplies, but that also represents a job whole to some degree, and politicians everywhere and the wider market never really likes that.

Their cars work just fine, it's the fit and finish that is sometimes laughable for those spending $60k or more. It's hard to know how big the cult can grow, but Tesla's target of 20M vehicles by 2030 doesn't seem feasible to me. It's not the drivetrains that are falling apart on Teslas; it's that they are built at breakneck speed and they are ignoring "cosmetic" problems to pump up deliveries. They will produce close to 1M cars this year so it's incorrect to assert they don't "register anywhere" in car manufacturing. This thread alone seems to contradict that hyperbole.

Remember that a couple years ago as Model 3 was ramping up, some auto analysts said that normal consumers would care about QC because unlike for early adopters, a Tesla BEV is a significant expense and they wouldn't have a backup car on hand to deal with poor reliability. Since then, hundreds of thousands of more Teslas have been sold and while the cars aren't exactly mainstream, it is gradually filtering down into the (upper) middle class.

But I agree that there's a huge difference between hundreds of thousands of cars, and tens of millions. If you're spending $60k on a new car, it's not too much to demand Honda Civic level of QC.

 

[jlee]

Tesla's winning at batteries. they don't even register anywhere when it comes to making cars.

• Tesla Model Y (13,786, up 388%): #1 in Luxury Compact SUV (39.3% share)
• Tesla Model 3 (9,731, down 48.4%): #1 in Near Luxury (38.9% share)
• Chevrolet Bolt EV (2,839, up 7%): #2 in Subcompact (28.0% share)
• Tesla Model S (889, down 43.0%): #4 in Luxury and High End Sports Cars (6.7% share)

California: Plug-Ins Capture Almost 11% Of The Market In Q1 2021 (insideevs.com)

 

[ponyo]

Chevy still makes the Bolt, no? It's not exactly my style, at least they have something electric on the market until the EV Hummer and Cadillac Lyriq come out next year.

Chevy is not making the Bolt right now.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/1...euv-production-offline-for-remainder-of-year/

Tesla's winning at batteries. they don't even register anywhere when it comes to making cars.

That's a real difference.

Tesla could very easily get demolished in manufacturing vehicles (they need to make cars that work, at some point, don't you think?--I mean, it's got to be shitty to have worse reliability than GM), but continue on with batteries and charging network. Software and tech. Hell, it might be the smarter move if it comes down to it. Tesla is doing a lot of interesting things, but they still suck hard at making good cars. Yeah, I don't expect that to last, because the cult clearly doesn't care about rust and panel gaps, but the cult can only get so big, I think. (by the way--I don't think that is going to be happen. I'm still pulling for Tesla, I just think you remain willfully blind to everything involved here)

GM employs vastly more people everywhere, like other manufacturers, because of the demand for parts. You have to understand that this is all part of the system, so no matter who likes it, that is going to be a huge influence on how companies get favored. It's a good thing that electric cars make things simpler with shorter supplies, but that also represents a job whole to some degree, and politicians everywhere and the wider market never really likes that.

Tesla quality control could definitely improve. And it will improve. Berlin and Austin will help with that. Supposedly the cars manufactured out of Shanghai are pretty good and better than the ones from Fremont. I suspect cars from Berlin and Austin will be even better. Tesla supposedly took what they learned from Shanghai and applied it to Berlin and Austin. They will be using their giant single piece casting Gigapress for the Model Y at Berlin and Austin.

It will only take Tesla 10 hours to build Model Y from start to finish at its Berlin factory while it takes Volkswagen 30 hours to build comparable electric vehicle. That's huge manufacturing advantage for Tesla.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...rman-workers-tesla-factory-will-threaten-jobs

Laugh all you want at Tesla today about panel gaps and poor build quality. Tesla will improve just like competition will improve at software. But unless the competitors improve their manufacturing efficiency and bring down that 30 hours build time to 10 hours like Tesla, these legacy automakers will struggle to compete with Tesla. I suspect the Chinese will eventually match Tesla. But it's going to be hard to for GM, VW, BMW, Mercedes, and others to match Tesla. Chinese will also match Tesla In software and perhaps even surpass Tesla in software. Chinese are the real deal and that's who I'm worried about. I'm not worried about GM at all. I know Mary is a moron, and GM will struggle with Mary in charge. I think Ford will be ok because Jim Farley seems to have a clue and is not a moron like his predecessor Jim Hackett. CEO matter. They matter great deal. GM has Mary so they're in big trouble. Mary has trouble playing checkers while Elon is playing 4-D chess.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

How's the beast so far? Also pics or it didn't happen!!

Sorry, forgot to post a picture or two. That's the wife's bod in the second photo.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Sorry, forgot to post a picture or two. That's the wife's bod in the second photo.

We all just assumed you rock midriff shirts.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Not outdoors! BTW, I just realized I need to place a mirror-reversed sign on the back of the flat panel of the car since it would be easily visible to the motorist I'm riding up on. Ideas?

 

[Kaido]

OT: V8 Tesla

 

[Kaido]

Tesla under investigation for 'Passenger Play' gaming feature:

https://www.engadget.com/tesla-passenger-play-games-driving-investigation-nhtsa-161515954.html

"Tesla didn't respond to a request for comment from Reuters. The company no longer has a PR department." LOL

 

[heymrdj]

So I convinced my wife to try a Model Y about a month back, as we're starting to shop for a replacement mid-size SUV. There were some things she liked and things she really didn't.

Pros
1. Didn't need gas
2. Instant acceleration as she's a stop light drag racer.
3. Already has all the surround cameras without having to buy a certain package on a vehicle to get them
4. Can warm up in the garage

Cons
1. The fit and finish of our test unit with 1,000 miles on it was absolutely terrible. She's absolutely anal about lined up body panels etc. If they don't match, the car won't be accepted. Afraid that we could be waiting in limbo forever to actually take delivery of one built right. Maybe they used that one as a test unit because it was built so terribly.
2. The ugliest modern vehicle she's ever seen on the road, bar none.
3. The frunk needed to be deeper for her needs, but it's still useful
4. TOUCHING THE SCREEN FOR EVERYTHING. It was a misty day and the "automatic" wipers couldn't adjust for crap. Having to learn the vehicle, drive, and keep looking over to the screen to adjust the wipers every 30 seconds is an absolutely stupid design.
5. Lack of Apple Play. Can't use apps like Subsonic that Tesla doesn't design in themselves, which then you're using the phone in your hand anyway
6. Left out of the original post, I forgot. The sensors were absolutely crazy in town. Construction cones jumping everywhere, vehicles sliding around on the screen when we were stationary. She expected a perfect view of objects on the screen in digital form, but there was way too much moving around to trust that an object was where it said it was in gridlocked traffic. It could only estimate our rural 2 lane roads with no paint. The automatic cruise control worked fine enough, but it does in her current vehicle as well.

Overall, she liked the vehicle enough to consider it in the running, but doesn't understand how it's a 60K vehicle. You can go through the tech mumbo jumbo, but she wants it to drive the way she wants it to, and for it to have the features+ her current 40K vehicle with 0 fewer features. She liked the X5 xDrive40i more. Still waiting to get her a Mach E to try.

 

[Kaido]

So I convinced my wife to try a Model Y about a month back, as we're starting to shop for a replacement mid-size SUV. There were some things she liked and things she really didn't.

Pros
1. Didn't need gas
2. Instant acceleration as she's a stop light drag racer.
3. Already has all the surround cameras without having to buy a certain package on a vehicle to get them
4. Can warm up in the garage

Cons
1. The fit and finish of our test unit with 1,000 miles on it was absolutely terrible. She's absolutely anal about lined up body panels etc. If they don't match, the car won't be accepted. Afraid that we could be waiting in limbo forever to actually take delivery of one built right. Maybe they used that one as a test unit because it was built so terribly.
2. The ugliest modern vehicle she's ever seen on the road, bar none.
3. The frunk needed to be deeper for her needs, but it's still useful
4. TOUCHING THE SCREEN FOR EVERYTHING. It was a misty day and the "automatic" wipers couldn't adjust for crap. Having to learn the vehicle, drive, and keep looking over to the screen to adjust the wipers every 30 seconds is an absolutely stupid design.
5. Lack of Apple Play. Can't use apps like Subsonic that Tesla doesn't design in themselves, which then you're using the phone in your hand anyway
6. Left out of the original post, I forgot. The sensors were absolutely crazy in town. Construction cones jumping everywhere, vehicles sliding around on the screen when we were stationary. She expected a perfect view of objects on the screen in digital form, but there was way too much moving around to trust that an object was where it said it was in gridlocked traffic. It could only estimate our rural 2 lane roads with no paint. The automatic cruise control worked fine enough, but it does in her current vehicle as well.

Overall, she liked the vehicle enough to consider it in the running, but doesn't understand how it's a 60K vehicle. You can go through the tech mumbo jumbo, but she wants it to drive the way she wants it to, and for it to have the features+ her current 40K vehicle with 0 fewer features. She liked the X5 xDrive40i more. Still waiting to get her a Mach E to try.

As a huge Tesla fanboy:

1. I can't believe the poor quality still coming out of the factory today. I've had friends take delivery of Teslas recently & it's like 90's Kia quality in some cases. One of the Facebook groups has a thorough "Delivery 2.0" checklist & basically say just to expect to send it off to the local service center to get tweaked & repaired before taking actual delivery of it. This is a red flag for me, as my job is very schedule-driven & having a random, moving target of delivery dates, repairs, etc. really throws a dent in my time.

2. The Model Y was supposed to be "the" Tesla going forward, as small SUV's are sort of King of America right now. iirc Musk stated he didn't want to shoehorn the Model Y onto the Model 3 chassis, that it would be an all-new design, way less wiring, etc., but the investors won out, and so the Model Y is basically a marshmallow version of the Model 3. Having driven both, I do like the Y better...more legroom, better visibility, more trunk space, etc., but it really would have been a better car on a specially-designed chassis, particularly with the 7-seat option.

3. Yeah, the frunk is the frunk. At least it's bigger than a lot of competitors! And it IS nice to have it available as a storage location! FWIW, there are aftermarket power-frunk kits available.

4. tbh I can't stand this. Especially as the latest update has hidden more stuff behind menus. The auto wipers are horrifically bad. The car really isn't a place where you can fully utilize the screen while driving. Also, I don't really care for Tesla's interface design. Some of the touch interface buttons are so small to be using while driving! I test drove the Ford Mustang Mach-E & it was like a breath of fresh air...physical buttons EVERYWHERE, including a giant manual dial in the middle of the touchscreen! I appreciate what Tesla's trying to do, and it works well enough once you get used to it, but it's not my favorite. Plus, I really love Apple Carplay lol.

5. The Mach-E comes with wireless Carplay, so in addition to Ford's interface, you still get a great iOS-style GUI with giant, easy buttons.

6. I was disappointed in how the TACC & stuff works. My wife has EyeSight on her Subaru & it actually works pretty awesome, along with lane-centering in her model. We use her car as our trip car (lots of miles) & the TACC is always SUPER reliable! I feel like stuff like TACC is variable with each update from Tesla & not like, 100% reliable in practice.

I do appreciate Tesla's minimalism, but tbh, I've also come to realize how much I really like creature comforts. The Mach-E really surprised me when I test-drove it & outside of the Cybertruck, it would be the EV I would buy today if I had to pick one. The Mach-E really feels like "Car 2.0", like literally a better car, which I was pleasantly surprised at, whereas Tesla vehicles definitely feel like they were designed by Silicone Valley lol. I think Tesla has more potential long-term, particularly with the self-driving stuff, games, etc. I think the Ford F-150 Lightning EV truck will really knock it out of the park when it comes out, although my main driver is that I want a 500+ mile battery, which is why the Cybertruck holds my interest the most right now.

But I've also learned my lesson about buying first-generation hardware, so I'll wait for Tesla to get all of the bugs worked out of the Cybertruck before making a decision on it lol. On the flip side for Tesla: really cool cars, great battery range, neat options like games & karaoke, continually-developing self-driving features, etc. One of my main hesitations is that the service center is really far away from me & the waiting times are insane. My buddy ran an update on his Model 3 a year or two ago & it BSOD's the car. Had to get it towed & it was weeks before they could get it fixed, whereas with my current ICE, there are Ford dealerships like every ten feet in my state haha, so getting repairs & whatnot is pretty easy!

 

[KentState]

I would just avoid Tesla if your wife is that particular. Having two of them, I’ve got used to their quirks and differences from other brands but I can see how others may not be able to live with it. For me, the prior BMW I had was horribly unreliable and would not trust a current X5 or X3. They may have good fit and finish but the overly complex systems to gain 1% fuel efficiency ruins the car.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Seems some are not too happy with the current sw update. Anyone care to express themselves on it?

 

[KentState]

Seems some are not too happy with the current sw update. Anyone care to express themselves on it?

Overall, it feels like a change for the sake of a change. I have found very little that has made controlling the car easier, especially while driving. I questioned ownership of the car after dealing with both it and AP on our 500 mile trip back from Ohio.

 

[quikah]

Seems some are not too happy with the current sw update. Anyone care to express themselves on it?

It is garbage. You need 2 taps now to change profiles. Ugg. Radio stations are now buried in the favorites menu instead of having a list to tap (I like to switch around stations). No idea why any of these changes were made. The previous interface was perfectly fine.

 

[KentState]

It is garbage. You need 2 taps now to change profiles. Ugg. Radio stations are now buried in the favorites menu instead of having a list to tap (I like to switch around stations). No idea why any of these changes were made. The previous interface was perfectly fine.

The things that people wanted where waypoints, blind spot cameras, 360 camera view and the previous things to work like auto wipers and FSD. I don't see how any of those required a full on UI change. Maybe a reskin but not what they did.

I also found it's really frustrating trying to plot a drive and use a different super charger station than what the computer comes up with. I would remove all charging stops and then add the one I know I can make it to. The computer would then add in one before it because the range calculation was completely off. I had to sit at the charger longer to get more range which was 20% off once we started driving. The only reason I screwed around with any of this is because of pre-conditioning for charging which should help overall battery life. I just want to be able to put a route into the car and pick the specific chargers without a ton of frustration.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Been enjoying this car. Even the wife is in love with it. My brain is wondering if I should get my vette deposit back and put it in a Cybertruck, or just get another M3P. She, and I, like the idea of letting go of our 9 year old BMW 335 for another Model 3.

 

[Kaido]

Been enjoying this car. Even the wife is in love with it. My brain is wondering if I should get my vette deposit back and put it in a Cybertruck, or just get another M3P. She, and I, like the idea of letting go of our 9 year old BMW 335 for another Model 3.

I'm still holding out for the Cybertruck haha. I'm just assuming Christmas 2023 at this point. The key feature for me is the 500+ mile battery. The fact that it's crazy weird-looking is just a bonus lol. I'm not really interested in a truck per se, but it will be nice to have a capable winter vehicle. We just got snow & my ICE bottoms out at 6" lol.

I AM curious to see if they're really going to hit the $39k base target price (obviously not with a 500-mile battery on that version), or if it will be like the mythical phone-order-only M3 base model lol.

 

[Zorba]

It is garbage. You need 2 taps now to change profiles. Ugg. Radio stations are now buried in the favorites menu instead of having a list to tap (I like to switch around stations). No idea why any of these changes were made. The previous interface was perfectly fine.

I really don't understand why anyone would want a car that randomly updates software on it's own. It's one thing if it is actually thoroughly tested safety updates. But randomly having a new GUI, that is likely poorly tested, and safety updates that may or may not have actually been tested, fuck that.

I come from aviation, though, where software very rarely changes, because it is insanely expensive to thoroughly test safety related software and/or retrain pilots.

 

[KentState]

I really don't understand why anyone would want a car that randomly updates software on it's own. It's one thing is it actually thoroughly tested safety updates. But randomly having a new GUI, that is likely poorly tested, and safety updates that may or may not have actually been tested, fuck that.

I come from aviation, though, where software very rarely changes, because it is insanely expensive to thoroughly test safety related software and/or retrain pilots.

None of the updates are random or on it's own. You have to opt into Advanced updates, you have to accept the updates and install time.

 

[Zorba]

None of the updates are random or on it's own. You have to opt into Advanced updates, you have to accept the updates and install time.

I didn't realize that. So you can defer an update forever if you want to? Can you roll back?

 

[KentState]

I didn't realize that. So you can defer an update forever if you want to? Can you roll back?

Don't believe you can roll back, but you can defer updates for a good amount of time. Realistically, things will stop working like Supercharging or network services at some point. Many folks, like myself, opt in to the Advanced updates so we get this stuff right away. The complaints you are hearing are from the early adopters of the updates, but it's a good thing that folks are speaking up and giving input. Lot of the legacy automakers launch something and it's too late at that point to course correct. Either you live with the changes or buy a new model.