3 boys sexually assault girl, get 30 days.

[drebo]

Have to love the distorted reporting



Who wouldn't wake up while 3 boys sexually assaulted you?

I suspect that the "sexual assault" in this case is that she had lewd comments written on her, not that she was actually assaulted in a sexual way.

 

[momeNt]

The victim killed herself too, do you think her parents should serve some more time for that?

I'm being sarcastic in my agreement with them to show how gross and disturbing their opinions really are.

 

[zinfamous]

Did you even read what you quoted?


I bolded the relevant portion to help you out

oh right...you keep on saying "because this is what liberals think!" You and your buddy, all the time. Clearly, that makes it so...

try, for once, to make an argument not couched within your own self-loathing delusions.

 

[zinfamous]

I suspect that the "sexual assault" in this case is that she had lewd comments written on her, not that she was actually assaulted in a sexual way.

yeah, until you read about the fingering.

and the photos.

i guess it wasn't "legitimate" sexual assault.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I'm being sarcastic in my agreement with them to show how gross and disturbing their opinions really are.

Sorry about that, carry on

 

[nehalem256]

yeah, until you read about the fingering.

and the photos.

i guess it wasn't "legitimate" sexual assault.

So how does that work? Is it an extension of the whole taking your photograph stealing your soul thing? Except when you take a picture of a naked girl it steals her virginity?:hmm:

 

[DrPizza]

(2) Why is there an inability to distinguish between rape and lesser forms of inappropriate sexual behavior?

So how does that work? Is it an extension of the whole taking your photograph stealing your soul thing? Except when you take a picture of a naked girl it steals her virginity?:hmm:

I understand your point completely now! And, Bill Clinton was telling the truth that he did not have sex with Monica Lewinsky. Wait a second... I thought your "side" (with apologies to that side, since you represent the looniest among them) was aghast at Bill Clinton's behavior & lies?

 

[MrPickins]

yeah, until you read about the fingering.

"and with a foreign object " :\

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-co...-teen-girl-defendant-added-suit-girls-suicide

 

[Vic]

So how does that work? Is it an extension of the whole taking your photograph stealing your soul thing? Except when you take a picture of a naked girl it steals her virginity?:hmm:

I'm convinced now that you're just a troll.

 

[Zodiark1593]

I have a daughter, and if any punks ever did this kind of thing to her.. well, let's just say I wouldn't mind prison.

Sawn-off double barreled shotgun + Street Punk = ???

A) Ghetto Swiss Cheese
B) Human Hamburger
C) Lifelike Flying Mannequin
D) All of The Above

:hmm:

 

[Exophase]

Its obvious to anyone that can think that if a 15 year old boy claimed he was raped because some of his female classmates touched his junk while he was drunk that he would be ridiculed. Perhaps some insults involving him being "queer" would be thrown around

And I'm sure this kind of ridicule would make him too embarrassed to kill himself.

 

[Geosurface]

I'm being sarcastic in my agreement with them to show how gross and disturbing their opinions really are.

Saying that parents should teach their kids that when you're in environments where people are getting drunk, especially if you're one of them, and especially while you're still a teenager and the people have bad judgement even when they're sober... is not a "gross and disturbing opinion."

And cautioning kids about such dangers is not even in the same universe as somehow condoning what anyone who ends up victimizing them did.

nehalem's analogy to telling kids not to get in a stranger's van who offers them candy is pretty perfect. Why am I not hearing this referred to as pedophile apologetics?

Of course, it's not that. It's standard, traditional, prudent parenting. And as your kids get up into their teens, you start to shift to impressing upon them the importance of their own choices about who they socialize with and what they themselves do when confronted with peer pressure or dangerous environments. You teach them what sort of environments can quickly go wrong, and why.

Remember the "affluenza" kid who killed 4 people by drunk driving, and how everyone here was up in arms about it? If he wasn't the perfect example of a kid not being properly brought up to understand the dangers of alcohol and bad decisions, and the importance of making good personal choices... then I don't know who is. Yet nobody would even think to get upset at anyone who pointed out that his parents should have raised him better and that at 16, he had no business drinking whether he was driving or not.

Look I have no idea exactly how things went down with this girl. Did she make a choice to drink what she knew were alcoholic beverages, or did someone spike something in a deliberate effort to knock her out? And as the details have been pointed out to me, that they actually did penetrate her in some way with an object or with their fingers, as well as distributing pictures around, it is clear: what they did is AWFUL and they should get a hell of a lot more than 30 days for it. What should they get? I don't know... maybe 6 months in juvie? Maybe a year? I'm no expert on sentencing.

But discussing the problems with our culture and the causes of these sorts of things happening is NOT the same thing as excusing what they did or condoning it.

 

[MrPickins]

...snip...

You act like nobody is currently discussing the dangers of date rape, this is not the case.

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=date rape psa&sm=3


What you and nehalem don't seem to be taking in to account that kids are not always going to follow advice or use the best judgment, especially when peer pressure is involved.

Sure the girl should have done things differently, but to take advantage of that lapse in judgment is the act that you should be condemning. Instead you blame the victim in the guise of "discussion".

 

[Exophase]

You can't look at isolated incidents like this and go on about how much society has decayed overall. Isn't that basically what the gun grabbers keep doing? There have always been incidents of people doing stupid things, I guarantee you that 50 years ago people were getting drunk in parties and molested by the opposite sex. And, like today, they were also not listening to their parents all the time. You can't just link everything to blatant neglect in parenting.

If I read the older articles properly, the so-called friend of hers who threw the party instigated the incident (and at the very least did nothing to stop it). That sounds like a pretty deep betrayal of trust. What are parents supposed to teach their kids, "don't trust anyone, expect even your closest friends to betray you at all times"?

 

[nehalem256]

You act like nobody is currently discussing the dangers of date rape, this is not the case.

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=date rape psa&sm=3

I don't think anyone would call the story in the OP date rape.

Also, taking the first video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_EJV_0j8Rs

It again seems nothing like it. In there we see 2 sober people in a car and the guy slapping the girl so he can get what he wants. Does that seem anything like the story from the OP?

What you and nehalem don't seem to be taking in to account that kids are not always going to follow advice or use the best judgment, especially when peer pressure is involved.

Sure the girl should have done things differently, but to take advantage of that lapse in judgment is the act that you should be condemning. Instead you blame the victim in the guise of "discussion".

Isn't that exactly what you people keep expecting from the boys though?

Again, to a large extent this seems less like a rape and more like a prank gone to far. At least from the point of view of the boys. If they had wanted to rape her, why wouldn't they do so in a way that would give them pleasure? Could this be something the juvenile justice system would be more likely to take into account than the adult system? Explaining why they received such a lenient sentence?

 

[Geosurface]

What you and nehalem don't seem to be taking in to account that kids are not always going to follow advice or use the best judgment, especially when peer pressure is involved.

Sure the girl should have done things differently, but to take advantage of that lapse in judgment is the act that you should be condemning. Instead you blame the victim in the guise of "discussion".

Who is blaming the victim? It's absolutely awful what happened to her. It's deeply tragic and heart-breaking that she ended up killing herself over it. What these kids did was vile and unacceptable behavior. They should be punished, and that punishment should be considerably more than 30 days on weekends.

And believe me, I'm not ignoring the fact that no matter how well you raise kids or how much effort you put into trying to impress upon them what good choices and bad choices are, they can still end up in horrible situations. This applies to both the parents of the boys, and the girl. Who knows how much effort they put in? They could all be great parents and this could still end up happening.

But generally, kids who are drinking at mixed gender parties in their teens are probably doing it routinely. At some point, you have to acknowledge that a kid being in that environment at least starts to make you wonder about the parenting and whether the parents are paying enough attention, at the very least. But who knows?

The point I'm making is that a lot of parents these days, and our society in general, are not giving themselves a lot of margin of error. When you speak clearly and forcefully that underage drinking (or hell, drinking at all) is a bad idea, being around members of the opposite sex when anyone is intoxicated in any way is a bad idea, and pre-marital sex is a bad idea, as our society used to... then a kid has a lot further to fall before they end up in a situation like this. If, instead, you try to "thread the needle" by permitting or ignoring a lot of those behaviors, the distance a kid has to fall is a lot shorter and the likelihood they end up in a situation like this is much greater.

Now don't get me wrong, I've had lots of pre-marital sex, I'm not some saint. I'm not even necessarily endorsing a complete return to those old values and social moors. I just think there's a good argument to be made that we've gone too far in the other direction and are seeing the predictable consequences. I think that's very much the point nehalem tries to make, he's trying to say "see? these are the fruits of social liberalism" - now whether he harps on it too much or could do it in a more sensitive way is another matter. But I think a lot of people just go into automatic "i'm outraged at you!" mode with him rather than trying to figure out what he's saying, why, and pick up on the sarcasm and irony he employs.

What are parents supposed to teach their kids, "don't trust anyone, expect even your closest friends to betray you at all times"?

No, that's too extreme. But I think what most parents are doing currently is not extreme enough. There's a balance somewhere in there to be found.

 

[MrPickins]

I don't think anyone would call the story in the OP date rape.

Also, taking the first video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_EJV_0j8Rs

It again seems nothing like it. In there we see 2 sober people in a car and the guy slapping the girl so he can get what he wants. Does that seem anything like the story from the OP?



Isn't that exactly what you people keep expecting from the boys though?

Again, to a large extent this seems less like a rape and more like a prank gone to far. At least from the point of view of the boys. If they had wanted to rape her, why wouldn't they do so in a way that would give them pleasure? Could this be something the juvenile justice system would be more likely to take into account than the adult system? Explaining why they received such a lenient sentence?

Date rape is extremely similar to what happened here, and the same warnings apply.

You keep saying it was a prank, but never answer if it would be a prank if a group of women shoved a broom handle up your ass while you were passed out drunk.

Stop defending sexual predators.

And yes, I do expect that the boys might make bad decisions, but it take a much larger lapse in judgment (not to mention morals) to strip and insert foreign objects into a passed out girl.

 

[nehalem256]

The point I'm making is that a lot of parents these days, and our society in general, are not giving themselves a lot of margin of error. When you speak clearly and forcefully that underage drinking (or hell, drinking at all) is a bad idea, being around members of the opposite sex when anyone is intoxicated in any way is a bad idea, and pre-marital sex is a bad idea, as our society used to... then a kid has a lot further to fall before they end up in a situation like this. If, instead, you try to "thread the needle" by permitting or ignoring a lot of those behaviors, the distance a kid has to fall is a lot shorter and the likelihood they end up in a situation like this is much greater.

If you have a society that looks at pre-marital sex in a negative light isn't likely that drunken teenagers are going to be more likely to see a stark line between a funny prank of taking photos with your in fingers in a drunk girls nose, and a horrible violation of sticking your finger in a drunk girls vagina.

Whereas if you have a society that says it is fine for the girl to pull a train with every boy there and anyone who questions that is an evil slut shamer. Is it really so surprising that drunk teenagers might not see such a distinct line between what bodily orifice its funny to stick your finger in and what bodily orifice sticking your finger in is a horrible violation?

 

[MrPickins]

...snip...

As others have pointed out, this shit happened back in the "good ol days", it was just covered up. Take off the rose colored glasses.

 

[MrPickins]

If you have a society that looks at pre-marital sex in a negative light isn't likely that drunken teenagers are going to be more likely to see a stark line between a funny prank of taking photos with your in fingers in a drunk girls nose, and a horrible violation of sticking your finger in a drunk girls vagina.

Whereas if you have a society that says it is fine for the girl to pull a train with every boy there and anyone who questions that is an evil slut shamer. Is it really so surprising that drunk teenagers might not see such a distinct line between what bodily orifice its funny to stick your finger in and what bodily orifice sticking your finger in is a horrible violation?

Dildo up your ass is just a prank, then, no?

It's just like your nose!

 

[nehalem256]

Date rape is extremely similar to what happened here, and the same warnings apply.

You keep saying it was a prank, but never answer if it would be a prank if a group of women shoved a broom handle up your ass while you were passed out drunk.

Stop defending sexual predators.

And yes, I do expect that the boys might make bad decisions, but it take a much larger lapse in judgment (not to mention morals) to strip and insert foreign objects into a passed out girl.

But if they had picked a different orifice to insert a foreign object everyone would pretty much agree it WAS A PRANK.

Have liberal sexual values created a world where drunken teenagers are not going to see such a distinct difference between one orifice and and another?

 

[nehalem256]

Dildo up your ass is just a prank, then, no?

It's just like your nose!

We really have no details about what happened.

I think we can draw a moral distinction between say inserting a tip of giant black plastic penis a 1/4 inch inside a girl to take a "funny" picture. And viciously shoving said plastic penis in and out until she bleeds.

Given that the person who does have all the facts apparently imposed a lenient sentence which do you think is closer to what happened?

 

[MrPickins]

But if they had picked a different orifice to insert a foreign object everyone would pretty much agree it WAS A PRANK.

Have liberal sexual values created a world where drunken teenagers are not going to see such a distinct difference between one orifice and and another?

Are you that stupid that you can't see the difference between a nose and a vagina?

We really have no details about what happened.

I think we can draw a moral distinction between say inserting a tip of giant black plastic penis a 1/4 inch inside a girl to take a "funny" picture. And viciously shoving said plastic penis in and out until she bleeds.

Given that the person who does have all the facts apparently imposed a lenient sentence which do you think is closer to what happened?

Just so we're clear, you're of the opinion that the first scenario is no big deal? You're a sick individual.

So it's no problem if someone sticks just the tip of a dildo in your ass while you'r passed out? They just wanted to take a funny picture!

 

[nehalem256]

Are you that stupid that you can't see the difference between a nose and a vagina?

That is pretty much the opposite of what I am saying.

I am saying that liberal sexual values will tend to make a smaller difference between the 2 than conservative sexual values. And that this difference will make incidences like the OP more common.

Just so we're clear, you're of the opinion that the first scenario is no big deal? You're a sick individual.

So it's no problem if someone sticks just the tip of a dildo in your ass while you'r passed out? They just wanted to take a funny picture!

Are you saying you see no difference between being viciously assaulted with a dildo, and having the bare tip put into make a "funny" picture?

There is a clear difference in intent. And in effect; in one there is only an embarrassing photo, and in the other I wake up with a sore ass.

 

[Vic]

Okay Nehalem, let's do it to you and see how you like it. Don't forget we'll need the pics too to send to everyone you know. Oh, and while your ass might say it was just the tip, we will of course be telling everyone a different story.
You're okay with all this, right?