3 boys sexually assault girl, get 30 days.

[MrPickins]

That is pretty much the opposite of what I am saying.

I am saying that liberal sexual values will tend to make a smaller difference between the 2 than conservative sexual values. And that this difference will make incidences like the OP more common.

And I'm saying that's a load of bullshit you made up in your own head.

Are you saying you see no difference between being viciously assaulted with a dildo, and having the bare tip put into make a "funny" picture?

There is a clear difference in intent. And in effect; in one there is only an embarrassing photo, and in the other I wake up with a sore ass.

The physical trauma is only a very minor part of the problem, but I know you have little empathy, so I see how you could overlook that.

In either case, the end result is the same: you got raped in the ass with a dildo and pictures were passed around.

 

[Vic]

How does Nehalem and Geosurface know how these kids were raised is what I wonder. For all they know, all of the kids were raised with strong "conservative family values" and the party started after they skipped out of youth group. I remember that's what we used to do when I was that age.

 

[Jaskalas]

Kids raise themselves these days, there are few "conservative family values" among teens. The majority are likened to feral animals running amok as a pack of wolves. For what they did to that girl I'd put them down, or at least give them 5-10.

To drug and abuse people like that should be a serious crime.
It was torturous enough for her to kill herself, should be enough to send them to prison.

 

[Geosurface]

How does Geosurface know how these kids were raised is what I wonder.

Who knows how much effort they put in? They could all be great parents and this could still end up happening.

:whiste:

 

[zinfamous]

:whiste:

define "great parents" through the value system you deem best.

 

[nehalem256]

And I'm saying that's a load of bullshit you made up in your own head.



The physical trauma is only a very minor part of the problem, but I know you have little empathy, so I see how you could overlook that.

In either case, the end result is the same: you got raped in the ass with a dildo and pictures were passed around.

Or I could choose to more accurately distinguish between put the tipping of dildo between my ass cheeks and viciously assaulting me with said dildo and not ruin my life over a silly thing some drunk guys did.

Which do you think sounds healthier?

Calling every slightly unpleasant vaguely sexual event rape does a complete disservice to everyone. It trivializes real rape victims. And causes unnecessary emotional trauma to people by framing small injuries as rape.

 

[zinfamous]

Kids raise themselves these days, there are few "conservative family values" among teens. The majority are likened to feral animals running amok as a pack of wolves. For what they did to that girl I'd put them down, or at least give them 5-10.

To drug and abuse people like that should be a serious crime.
It was torturous enough for her to kill herself, should be enough to send them to prison.

agree with much of this, really. particularly the bolded.

 

[Geosurface]

define "great parents" through the value system you deem best.

Well, it's a delicate balance to try to strike. They should be very involved in their children's lives, and aware of who their friends are, what they're up to, but not to the point of completely suffocating them.

Frankly there are kids who will turn out as hellions no matter what their parents do, because they are born to be such. And there are kids who will turn out great with very little effort on their parents' part.

This is why I think the more important issue here is the overall tone of the society and the attitudes of the entire society toward things like teen promiscuity, etc.

 

[MagickMan]

Are you saying you see no difference between being viciously assaulted with a dildo, and having the bare tip put into make a "funny" picture?

There is a clear difference in intent. And in effect; in one there is only an embarrassing photo, and in the other I wake up with a sore ass.

In the eyes of the law, and apparently in that girl's mind, there's no difference. It was non consensual, and thus, sexual assault. The little pervs should be sentenced the same as if each had "taken a turn" with her.

 

[Exophase]

Where is this connection between more relaxed attitudes towards sex before marriage/sex in general and an increase in molestation and rape? You'd may as well say that an increased acceptance of gay sex has led to more gay molestation. Actually that sounds a lot like something nehalem256 would say, but it'd need some kind of actual evidence to back it up. Just like these claims do. Show some actual studies and statistics. This sounds like nothing more than spreading FUD to smear a cultural shift you don't like, that also happens to have nothing to do with what happened.

And I know that the complaints are broader than sexual conduct so go ahead and demonstrate that teenagers drinking and having mixed parties behind their parents back (the parents in this case most certainly did not know and approve of what was happening) is a recent or growing problem. Seems to me like this sort of thing was a staple of corny sitcoms in the 80s and 90s, I guess it wasn't in anyone's consciousness yet then..

 

[nehalem256]

In the eyes of the law, and apparently in that girl's mind, there's no difference. It was non consensual, and thus, sexual assault. The little pervs should be sentenced the same as if each had "taken a turn" with her.

Going by the leniency of the sentence you would appear to be incorrect.

And I know that the complaints are broader than sexual conduct so go ahead and demonstrate that teenagers drinking and having mixed parties behind their parents back (the parents in this case most certainly did not know and approve of what was happening) is a recent or growing problem. Seems to me like this sort of thing was a staple of corny sitcoms in the 80s and 90s, I guess it wasn't in anyone's consciousness yet then..

You mean decades after the shift in values occurred?:hmm:

 

[Exophase]

You mean decades after the shift in values occurred?:hmm:

Right, so this shift was some sudden event in the 60s and not a gradual change that should still be changing today.

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to bother responding to you anymore.

 

[nehalem256]

Right, so this shift was some sudden event in the 60s and not a gradual change that should still be changing today.

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to bother responding to you anymore.

Things like teens drinking occurred previously.

Of course if you read what I said previously that was not the only issue I mentioned. Something about a breakdown in conservative sexual morality, which is a slower process.

 

[nehalem256]

This is why I think the more important issue here is the overall tone of the society and the attitudes of the entire society toward things like teen promiscuity, etc.

I believe this entirely. If you parents discourage teen promiscuity. But media and your peer group encourage which do you think will win out?

See for example liberals complaining about all of the unwed pregnancy in red states.

 

[Exophase]

So on the one hand you have teen pregnancies on a gradual long term decline: http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-health-topics/reproductive-health/teen-pregnancy/trends.html

On the other hand, you'd look to a shift away from conservative values on sex in causing teenage boys to be more likely to violate teenage girls?

The only progressive trend I can point to here that could have exacerbated this is improvements in technology that let the boys take pictures on their phones and immediately send them to their friends. They would have done this before too if they were able to.

This is to Geosurface, for what it's worth, nehalem's responses won't be read by me.

 

[TreVader]

Or I could choose to more accurately distinguish between put the tipping of dildo between my ass cheeks and viciously assaulting me with said dildo and not ruin my life over a silly thing some drunk guys did.

Which do you think sounds healthier?

Calling every slightly unpleasant vaguely sexual event rape does a complete disservice to everyone. It trivializes real rape victims. And causes unnecessary emotional trauma to people by framing small injuries as rape.

The girl HUNG herself over what they did! She's fucking dead, and somehow you think what happened to her was "slightly unpleasant"?


WTF is wrong with you?

 

[MrPickins]

Going by the leniency of the sentence you would appear to be incorrect.

You are inferring a lot from the sentencing.

How about the "affluenza" kid that killed 4(?) people while driving drunk? His sentence was awfully lenient. I suppose what he did wasn't all that bad either?

 

[TreVader]

Well, it's a delicate balance to try to strike. They should be very involved in their children's lives, and aware of who their friends are, what they're up to, but not to the point of completely suffocating them.

Frankly there are kids who will turn out as hellions no matter what their parents do, because they are born to be such. And there are kids who will turn out great with very little effort on their parents' part.

This is why I think the more important issue here is the overall tone of the society and the attitudes of the entire society toward things like teen promiscuity, etc.

Where are these people who can seriously sit there and type posts that defend a bunch of rapists? Seriously, how contrarian and obstinate do you have to be to argue in that general direction?


The internet is crazy. People will take any side of an argument, you could argue for beating children or raping women and these people come out of the woodworks.

 

[Exophase]

Where are these people who can seriously sit there and type posts that defend a bunch of rapists? Seriously, how contrarian and obstinate do you have to be to argue in that general direction?


The internet is crazy. People will take any side of an argument, you could argue for beating children or raping women and these people come out of the woodworks.

He's not defending them. He admits what they did is terrible. He just wants society (and "liberals" in particular) to take some of the blame for teaching teenagers that it's okay to have sex before marriage.

And of course there's no agenda in that, right?

 

[nehalem256]

The girl HUNG herself over what they did! She's fucking dead, and somehow you think what happened to her was "slightly unpleasant"?


WTF is wrong with you?

Im pretty sure the hanging was due to the pictures being passed around.

Taking naked photos is not rape.

EDIT: And I was referencing much more than just the OP situation in regards to broadening the definition of rape.

 

[nehalem256]

He's not defending them. He admits what they did is terrible. He just wants society (and "liberals" in particular) to take some of the blame for teaching teenagers that it's okay to have sex before marriage.

Liberalism doesn't just say its okay to have sex before marriage.

Liberalism say it is perfectly fine for the girl to have pull a train with every guy at the party. And any one who looks down at that at all is an evil slut shamer.

And of course there's no agenda in that, right?

Well I guess if pushing for morals that will make it less likely for bad things to happen to teenage girls constitutes an agenda he is pushing one.

 

[Geosurface]

defend a bunch of rapists

If you think anyone is defending rapists, or that any sort of attempt to look at some of the societal rot which may be contributing to this kind of behavior, is in any way an example of defending rapists... you are really a simpleton.

 

[Gerle]

I think we can draw a moral distinction between say inserting a tip of giant black plastic penis a 1/4 inch inside a girl to take a "funny" picture. And viciously shoving said plastic penis in and out until she bleeds.

Who are these "we"? One of your examples is wrong, the other even more wrong. The Uniform Code of Military Justice talks about penetration however slight, so in the law I'm familiar with there really is no difference. How that is supposed to be funny I don't understand.

 

[MrPickins]

Liberalism doesn't just say its okay to have sex before marriage.

Liberalism say it is perfectly fine for the girl to have pull a train with every guy at the party. And any one who looks down at that at all is an evil slut shamer.

Show me where anyone has said that. It's no different than a man who sleeps with anything he can. People are gonna call him nasty.

 

[nehalem256]

Who are these "we"? One of your examples is wrong, the other even more wrong. The Uniform Code of Military Justice talks about penetration however slight, so in the law I'm familiar with there really is no difference. How that is supposed to be funny I don't understand.

Let me highlight the difference with what I said:

I think we can draw a moral distinction between say inserting a tip of giant black plastic penis a 1/4 inch inside a girl to take a "funny" picture. And viciously shoving said plastic penis in and out until she bleeds.

I made sure to include the word moral for a reason.