3 boys sexually assault girl, get 30 days.

[nehalem256]

I tend to get outraged when posters say things like this:

Stop defending Nehalem, you really don't want to group yourself with him.

So, you completely missed the point of what I was saying?

That the article writer apparently can't tell the difference between taking a nap and passing out from drinking to much.

Imagine 15 year old you passed out and being fondled by a group of gay men. Gross prank or rape?

I like how you changed peers to gay men. In fact if we are going to make it more accurate shouldn't we say female classmates playing with your junk while you were passed out?

Imagine telling your friends that you were raped because a girl touched your junk while you were drunk. How do you think that would have gone over?

How about if they shove a broom handle up your ass? Still a prank?

No ones ass was involved in the story.

Emailed pictures of it to your peers? Still a prank?

Gross exaggeration of what occurred.

 

[Geosurface]

I tend to get outraged when posters say things like this:

Stop defending Nehalem, you really don't want to group yourself with him.

nehalem routinely employs sarcasm and parody in an effort to hold up a mirror to modern, liberal society to say to it: "these are the kind of things you can expect to see more and more of as a result of abandoning traditional morality." And he does a lot of acerbic jabs at double standards that same society has about gender, sex, etc.

I'm not sure why isn't clearer to a lot of people.

 

[momeNt]

Pretty sure nehalem256 is a troll.

Although I guess if Hitler posted on a forum and always pounced on Jews and gypsies, we would probably think he was trolling.

 

[nehalem256]

nehalem routinely employs sarcasm and parody in an effort to hold up a mirror to modern, liberal society to say to it: "these are the kind of things you can expect to see more and more of as a result of abandoning traditional morality." And he does a lot of acerbic jabs at double standards that same society has about gender, sex, etc.

I'm not sure why isn't clearer to a lot of people.

I believe it was Oscar Wilde who said: "If you tell people the truth make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you."

Unfortunately liberals don't have a sense of humor

 

[Exophase]

We also have this odd schizophrenic attitude about females now. We say that they should be treated exactly like men, but we still view them as damsels with no personal agency or accountability. Nobody here would have a moment's hesitation declaring a boy who got blackout drunk and then had pictures of his wang being messed with as his friends drew dicks and vulgarities on him, to be a dumbass who should make better choices and also they'd probably view him more as the victim of a gross prank than a sexual assault.

I would be reacting to the news exactly the same way were it a male. If someone were performing oral sex on him and taking pictures do you really think that they'd be doing it just because it was funny and that the person would just see it as a joke? No, it would clearly be sexually motivated just like this clearly was.

I also take issue with nehalem256 and now you saying that she was blackout drunk. She drank gatorade that had alcohol in it, most likely because it was spiked. She may not have realized she was drinking alcohol or may not have realized until it was too late. Someone of her size and age, possibly never having consumed alcohol before, would be affected more seriously than someone like you or me. But that still doesn't mean she blacked out. I've often drank alcohol to help me sleep because it makes me sleepy, but I've never passed out involuntarily. A small amount could have made her tired and she could have decided to sleep, after which she was taken advantage of.

 

[halik]

Getting her naked was sexual assault. Full stop.

Was she naked? I read with her pants off. Drunk shaming isn't sexually anything in my book. (think sharpie mustaches)

 

[Phokus]

I think this is an entirely unfair statement. Most conservatives, even on the Internet, are reasonable people who serve a valid purpose in society by cautioning against too rapid a rate of change or progress.
There are, unfortunately, extremists on both sides.
Which is why I think it would nice if some more of the moderate conservatives here would denounce this Gary Ridgway in their midst.

You're purposely ignoring the posters from the Right who are defending the girl, aren't you? Of course you are. See, that's what makes you as bad as the rapist defenders, because you'll do and use anything to further your political agenda, you trolling shit sack. :\

Why? Phokus' brush already has the entire right painted and it looks like nothing will change that. He's either a troll or too deep into the cool-aid. And you already think most conservatives are reasonable so why bother?

nehalem in not in my midst.

I'm going to quote Arkaign here, probably the only conservative here on ATPN who has any semblance of self awareness about his movement:

I'm a conservative, but find this kind of behavior absolutely reprehensible. I recently went to a backyard cookout with a few neighbors (this is an almost 100% 'Republican' area), and was shocked at: A) How fucking idiotic most of them were and B) How often I heard people talking about assassinating the POTUS and other 'liberals/commies' - Arkaign

As a conservative, I also have to say that: Republicans are generally not interested in truth if it interferes with their bottom line. They'll use any means necessary, lies, cheating, and stealing to push their agenda. That's the nature of the people we are dealing with at the top of the Republican party - Arkaign

Also, notice my sig? If the mods let me, my sig would be 100 pages long with quotes from shithead conservatives here on ATPN, and it wouldn't be from just a handful. The conservative movement is full of subhuman filth right now, stop pretending there's something to be salvaged. I liken self professed 'conservatives' who call out me and others who paint you with a broad brush the same as a cop who looks the other way when his fellow cops abuse their power; you implicitly support sociopaths even if you don't actively do the same things they do.

Also, lets stop the 'both sides are equally bad' nonsense, this is the stupidest form of false equivalency that only a sucker would fall for.

 

[momeNt]

nehalem routinely employs sarcasm and parody in an effort to hold up a mirror to modern, liberal society to say to it: "these are the kind of things you can expect to see more and more of as a result of abandoning traditional morality." And he does a lot of acerbic jabs at double standards that same society has about gender, sex, etc.

I'm not sure why isn't clearer to a lot of people.

Should the actions or harm (constrained by foreseeability) be judged?

There's a pretty good argument to be made that with this level of humiliation that suicide is foreseeable enough that one should tread cautiously when attempting to circulate humiliating pictures of someone. There have been numerous instances of suicide by sexual humiliation. Why must this young woman and her family that lost her bear the burden of the reckless actions of those 3 young adults? Because the action itself wasn't all that physically harmful because she may or may not have been penetrated? What about the emotional harm?

 

[Exophase]

I don't think people should hold special accountability for another person committing suicide. Someone might commit suicide because you broke up with them. And they might have really been suffering an overwhelming amount of pain over it. You may have even realized that they could have killed themselves over this. Should you be punished for it?

You should be held accountable for the actual laws you broke.

 

[Geosurface]

Hitler

Hear that nehalem? All you have to do around here to be considered Hitler, a sociopath, a horrible monster, a misogynist, and someone we're all likely to eventually see the face of on every news channel...

... is to treat women exactly the same way men are treated. Which ironically is what liberals always CLAIM they want.

You're exactly right about a teenage boy trying to tell anyone he'd been "raped" because some girls messed with his wang after he blacked out from drinking too much at a party. If he pushed it through the right channels, sure he could get the legal apparatus to consider it rape... but pretty much nobody in his family or circle of friends would think it was, and he'd be looked at as a complete clown for having tried to say it was at his school, etc. The girls wouldn't exactly be doing hard time, either.

Is that right? Does our society need to push how it views things like that happening to men closer to how it views it with women? Or is it the other way around? I'm not entirely sure, honestly. I don't know what exactly the appropriate balance is on this sort of thing.

What I do know, is that as it stands currently, modern liberal society has some very weird double standards about this sort of thing, and unlike traditional society of decades past, who also viewed things happening to men and women very differently, this current society has no valid excuse for doing so. Society back then was clear and on the same page start to finish. They were more protective of women because they viewed women as more delicate, more in need of protection, and not as able to endure harsh realities and circumstances as men. This modern society on the other hand, insists that gender is basically just a social construct, and entirely an artifact of how we raise boys vs. how we raise girls... and that women should be viewed and treated as exactly identical to men. Even those who acknowledge there are real, palpable differences still claim they think treatment should be identical.

I also know that as you've pointed out, the changes our society has made on how it treats sexuality and morality in general will predictably lead to this kind of stuff happening.

And I also agree with what you said about perspective influencing the trauma level. I think this girl would have been MUCH less likely to commit suicide over this if attitudes like the ones on display in this thread (OMG the world has just ended!!!) weren't the norm.

 

[highland145]

snip

You must be right. Quoting Arkaign, Spidey and nehalem makes it so.

 

[Geosurface]

suicide is foreseeable

This:

You should be held accountable for the actual laws you broke.

:thumbsup:

 

[Phokus]

You must be right. Quoting Arkaign, Spidey and nehalem makes it so.

The founder of GOProud left the Republican party because he found the GOP's pandering to bigots intolerable and he thought it couldn't be salvaged, even the non-bigoted republicans are afraid of their bigoted base. That really says something:

http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/15/jimmy-lasalvia-founder-of-goproud-leaves-republican-party/

 

[Exophase]

Hear that nehalem? All you have to do around here to be considered Hitler, a sociopath, a horrible monster, a misogynist, and someone we're all likely to eventually see the face of on every news channel...

... is to treat women exactly the same way men are treated. Which ironically is what liberals always CLAIM they want.

That's not what he said and you know it. I respect your asking for people to address something without sensationalizing it and putting their emotions in check but I expect you to do the same.

And it's totally unfair for you to inject sexism into this. Before you and nehalem256 claimed it no one else said that they'd react differently if this was a boy being sexually violated.

 

[Orignal Earl]

nehalem routinely employs sarcasm and parody in an effort to hold up a mirror to modern, liberal society to say to it: "these are the kind of things you can expect to see more and more of as a result of abandoning traditional morality." And he does a lot of acerbic jabs at double standards that same society has about gender, sex, etc.

I'm not sure why isn't clearer to a lot of people.

How in the world did we get to a place where couple of middle aged, single, childless, nancy boys who sit on their ass all day typing on a computer, pissin n moanin about women, ever figure they are some sort of authority on gender roles.

 

[Vic]

Why? Phokus' brush already has the entire right painted and it looks like nothing will change that. He's either a troll or too deep into the cool-aid. And you already think most conservatives are reasonable so why bother?

nehalem in not in my midst.

I thought it was known that I consider Phokus to be an extremist (of his own sort) as well.
Although I believe the political spectrum is multi dimensional, I also see truth in the political horseshoe theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
Humorous book on that subject: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/07432...pi=SY200_QL40

 

[momeNt]

This:



:thumbsup:

If you measure a persons actions based on their harm, modern liberal society is closer to being fair than societies of old. While it may be for the wrong reasons, that doesn't make those who oppose it any less wrong.

If a woman is more likely to be damaged by a particular action than a man, punishing the perpetrator based on the harm is actually irrespective of the sex. If you kick a man in his balls and kill him, and do that same kick to a woman in her crotch and cause bruising. Does the person who kicked the woman go to jail for murder?

If you rear end a Ferrari it's going to cost you a lot more than rear-ending a Chevy. To further expand on the analogy, if a feeble-necked female gets whiplash it's going to cost you a lot more if you rear end them compared to a thick-necked alpha male you can withstand the force of the collision.

Is all that a phenomena of female loving liberal society?

 

[momeNt]

Hear that nehalem? All you have to do around here to be considered Hitler, a sociopath, a horrible monster, a misogynist, and someone we're all likely to eventually see the face of on every news channel...

Did I consider him Hitler? Less typing more reading....

 

[Geosurface]

my sig would be 100 pages long

Phokus,

I just want to say that I am someone who has been where you're at now. I have been a die hard liberal who, not so long ago, basically viewed conservatives as evil dumbasses. I couldn't understand why they held any of the views they did, and I pathologized their views without a moment's hesitation. I used to feel that the only real motivations which could possibly be at the heart of any conservative views were greed, fear, hatred, and low intellect.

I've also been someone who has allowed myself to get carried away and been too extreme in my views both as a liberal and since becoming a "conservative" if that's what I am now. It is very tempting to demonize the other side and it's very satisfying to view things as black and white, good vs. evil.

But I'm urging you to try to nuance your views a bit more and dial it back. I can assure you, as someone who's been on both sides of the spectrum, I know for a fact there are plenty of intelligent people on both sides who have reached their viewpoints through honest, well-reasoned thought. I also know that the majority of both sides are people who are just parroting things that were fed to them, and going with the flow. People who haven't ever really bothered to critically examine their own beliefs.

When you talk about how you wish you could have this enormous list of quotes in your sig, it's a little bit scary. Why? Because it gives the impression that you are collecting "incriminating" evidence on a list of enemies and it makes me wonder what you'd do if you could be grand inquisitor of the country or something. You need to allow other people to experience their own personal development, and sometimes that means going through phases where they are being too extreme, or they're flat out wrong about an issue. A lot of times those people will later on moderate themselves and reach a better understanding. Painting them as irredeemable devils and your eternal enemies, only encourages both you and them to entrench further, and never budge. Also known as being closed-minded.

Just some food for thought.

 

[MrPickins]

So, you completely missed the point of what I was saying?

That the article writer apparently can't tell the difference between taking a nap and passing out from drinking to much.

The article simply didn't use the slang phrase "passed out" she was drunk and asleep. If she was drunk enough to be raped, most people reading should be able to infer her state of inebriation.

I like how you changed peers to gay men. In fact if we are going to make it more accurate shouldn't we say female classmates playing with your junk while you were passed out?

Imagine telling your friends that you were raped because a girl touched your junk while you were drunk. How do you think that would have gone over?

I changed it because this is one situation where men and women are different. Women almost never rape men and the emotional effects are likely to be much different.

A group gay man assaulting another man who has passed out is a more similar analogy.

No ones ass was involved in the story.

You don't have a vagina, so I substituted the closest analog.

Are you saying that anal rape is worse than vaginal?

Gross exaggeration of what occurred.

Ok, maybe I hyperbolized a bit, but the pictures were passed around.


So you tell me, in that situation, would it be rape or a prank?

 

[highland145]

The founder of GOProud left the Republican party because he found the GOP's pandering to bigots intolerable and he thought it couldn't be salvaged, even the non-bigoted republicans are afraid of their bigoted base. That really says something:

http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/15/jimmy-lasalvia-founder-of-goproud-leaves-republican-party/

Believe what you like about conservatives, plunk them all into one pot. You'll be wrong, you don't know me but nothing I can say would ever change your mind. Simple as that.

 

[MrPickins]

nehalem routinely employs sarcasm and parody in an effort to hold up a mirror to modern, liberal society to say to it: "these are the kind of things you can expect to see more and more of as a result of abandoning traditional morality." And he does a lot of acerbic jabs at double standards that same society has about gender, sex, etc.

I'm not sure why isn't clearer to a lot of people.

Nah, Nehalem is a troll who frequently picks the most inflammatory position to defend, knowing it will rile people up here.

It's how he gets his jollies.

Oh, did i mention he's also a raging misogynist?

 

[Geosurface]

Did I consider him Hitler? Less typing more reading....

That's not what he said and you know it.

I was riffing on the mere fact that Hitler had even been brought into the conversation in any way, shape, or form. His name even appearing in the thread is a sign of the tone being absurd.

And in reality, saying "then again... if Hitler was posting in that same way..." is in fact comparing him to Hitler, that's not really debatable. Admittedly, it's not a super direct or strong comparison, but it was a comparison. Again, though, I was mostly just reacting to the name even appearing here, and the numerous other absurd things other people have said about nehalem because of his expressed opinions in this thread. The most absurd one, to my mind, was umbrella's nonsense.

middle aged, single, childless, nancy boys

One out of four (childless) ain't good.

 

[Orignal Earl]

One out of four (childless) ain't good.

No, in 1950 all of the four would apply to you two

 

[Geosurface]

Women almost never rape men

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender#Rape_of_males_by_females

"A study done by the CDC found that 1 in 21 men (4.8%) reported that they had been forced to penetrate someone else, usually a woman; had been the victim of an attempt to force penetration; or had been made to receive oral sex.[20]"