19 Year Old Girl Shot Looking for Help

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NoCreativity

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,735
62
91
Im sure the incredible response time has nothing to do with them being in the area for the abandoned wreck where the driver fled the scene ():)

Two different departments so it really has nothing to do with it. Unless you are listening to SA in which case everything happened in one city that goes by the names Dearborn Heights/Detroit/Wayne County.
 

nixium

Senior member
Aug 25, 2008
919
3
76
Position means everything including being drug addled. That's why I said nice strawman because you attempted to change the scenario in your argument by removing that part specifically. Learn to debate better.

Bro.

Then your point doesn't add anything to the discussion. This guy didn't shoot her after giving her a breathalyzer and deciding she was drunk. He shot her because she freaked him out. You don't need to do drugs or be drunk out of your mind to bang on someone's door frantically at 3 AM. What if she was escaping from a rapist or murderer?

Hell i'll make it more interesting. What if she's running from a rapist whose drugged her?

The drunkenness/drugs are irrelevant to this whole discussion.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
Two different departments so it really has nothing to do with it. Unless you are listening to SA in which case everything happened in one city that goes by the names Dearborn Heights/Detroit/Wayne County.

oh right. I wonder though if DH had units in the area due to the proximity of the call or sent anyone to help, as its common to provide backup near jurisdictional borders
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Then your point doesn't add anything to the discussion. This guy didn't shoot her after giving her a breathalyzer and deciding she was drunk. He shot her because she freaked him out. You don't need to do drugs or be drunk out of your mind to bang on someone's door frantically at 3 AM. What if she was escaping from a rapist or murderer?

Hell i'll make it more interesting. What if she's running from a rapist whose drugged her?

The drunkenness/drugs are irrelevant to this whole discussion.

Because I was contradicting a fallacious point you were using as an argument for this "discussion" that me being right on this point now adds nothing to the discussion of the OP. Right..


And in fairytail news, not only do rainbows come from a unicorn's ass it also smells like roses when they fart!
 

NoCreativity

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,735
62
91
oh right. I wonder though if DH had units in the area due to the proximity of the call or sent anyone to help, as its common to provide backup near jurisdictional borders

That's a good possibility. If DH is anything like the Grosse Pointe citys (also on Detroit border) there is a pretty strong police presence and you will get response to most any call in less than 10 minutes. I would imagine a reported shooting would quicken response time.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Maybe she got the munchies? ():)
LOL No doubt.

These are one of the common ways to do home invasions... Have a crying, bloody girl bang on the door for help. Homeowner opens door, and 3 thugs come barging in.

I'm not saying to never answer the door at 3am, but in detroit? Yeah..... Not the place to be letting strangers inside. And this particular seems to have refused to take no for an answer, ripping down the door to get inside anyway.
True - but that's a reason to not open your door, not a reason to open your door and shoot whomever is there.

Given that the shooter was from the Detroit area and Detroit is known for it speedy response

40 minute response time;

Dearborn responded fast because of a shooting/death report.

Had it been an B&E; would the time frame been the same? I doubt it.
Holy crap, 58 minutes average for ALL calls!
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
The officer said he pushed the screen back in to photograph the screen door.

Fern

ok. but why? you have a shooting. wouldn't you want to leave Everything as is until the investigation is done?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
ok. but why? you have a shooting. wouldn't you want to leave Everything as is until the investigation is done?

I get your point. I had the same thought. I can only guess he took a pic of the screen out of position and then put it in for a pic of the whole screen/storm door.

Fern
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
3
0
<snip>

True - but that's a reason to not open your door, not a reason to open your door and shoot whomever is there.


<snip>


What gives you the impression he simply open the door and shot her?

Based on what we know as fact, I'd say it's more likely he cautiously opened the door to see what she wanted... And she ripped through the screen trying to get inside. Personally, I would've just shut the door on her arm over and over, but he's completely within his legal right to shoot her if that's what happened.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
What gives you the impression he simply open the door and shot her?

I'm still waiting to see the homeowners statement to police.

Based on what we know as fact, I'd say it's more likely he cautiously opened the door to see what she wanted... And she ripped through the screen trying to get inside. Personally, I would've just shut the door on her arm over and over, but he's completely within his legal right to shoot her if that's what happened.

Can you point to a link with this "fact"? Or should that have been let me pull something out of my ass and see if anyone will believe it?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
What gives you the impression he simply open the door and shot her?

Based on what we know as fact, I'd say it's more likely he cautiously opened the door to see what she wanted... And she ripped through the screen trying to get inside. Personally, I would've just shut the door on her arm over and over, but he's completely within his legal right to shoot her if that's what happened.
Two things. First, the screen has little damage, consistent with a shotgun blast from reasonably close but not point blank range. (A shotgun blast from farther than a foot or maybe two lacks the force wave to blow out or rip a screen; a shotgun blast from less than a foot is going to blow a round hole in the screen from concentrated muzzle blast regardless of whether the screen is pulled loose.) Therefore we know the homeowner was likely backed away from the screen. Probably he was close enough that the muzzle blast ripped the screen but not so close that it would remove a round plug, given the police statement that he fired through the screen, although it's also possible that she ripped the screen loose. Too close and a round section of screen is removed; too far and the only damage is from individual pellets. If the rip is caused by the muzzle blast, then the distance will be known to a foot or two; otherwise the density of the pattern (where shot strikes the screen) does much the same.

Second, we know from police statements that the girl was not shot from "very close range" and that she was shot on his porch, not in his house, and that the shot was not at an extreme upward trajectory. Since the homeowner was not immediately charged with possessing an illegal firearm, we can assume that his shotgun has a minimum barrel length of 16", meaning even a stockless home defense pistol grip model needs to be at least arms's length from its target. Adding barrel length and the specified shot distance range, had he opened the door and she began trying to enter, either she'd have been inside when he fired or the shot would have been point blank and probably contact. He simply could not physically prevent her from entering without the shot being point blank, if not contact, with a legal length shotgun. Assuming normal home defense barrel length of 17" - 20", swinging open the door and leveling the shotgun at her head would be point blank were she standing at the screen, so I'm assuming that either she was at the screen but was not quite so fucked up as to not back up when a shotgun was aimed at her face, or possibly that she had moved away from the door but began moving toward the door once he opened it. Another possibility is that he had backed away from the door, so that the rip was either pre-existing or possibly her damage. In that case she could have been standing at the screen, possibly even trying to get through it. But in that case he probably could have claimed home defense even with her, so I suspect she was backed away from the screen and his shotgun was within a foot, two at most, of it when he fired.

Your opinion or do you have link to the homeowners statement to police that backs this up?
Totally my opinion. I just don't believe that a man who answers the door with a shotgun (which I am not against on principle) would ever sleep with the door open and only a fragile and easily defeated storm door screen keeping the bad guys out of his house. A burglar or home invader could bust through a screen in just a few seconds, or cut stealthily through it in a minute or two without awakening anyone. Those two behaviors are totally at odds, as sleeping with your door or ground floor windows open implies a confidence that nothing bad is going to happen whereas answering the door armed implies the opposite.
 

tgferg67

Member
Oct 23, 2002
118
4
81
Wafer's statements to police being reported.
http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region...arged-with-murder-in-death-of-renisha-mcbride

Wafer told police at his home immediately after the shooting that he opened the main front door and the gun went off accidentally shooting through the closed and locked screen door.

Wafer, in his later statement at the Police Department that is on video, said that he had earlier issues with somebody who shot his vehicle with a paint ball gun. He did not report that to the police, he just wiped the paint off.
Wafer also said someone was knocking on his front and side door and he thought it might have been those people.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net

tgferg67

Member
Oct 23, 2002
118
4
81
Why did you choose to leave off this important piece of information? Afraid it would make your big discovery less credible?



Based on what was learned from the Zimmerman trial I will not believe anything other than an official police report.

Why so rude, I stated "being reported", does that sound official to you?
 

ghost_willis

Member
Nov 19, 2013
25
0
0
Between when she crashed the car and showed up on the guys porch (~3 hours) no one knows where she was. 19 years old, smoking dope (traces in her system) and above a .08 BAC) the owner shouldn't be arrested. She was up to no good and clearly screwing up her life either way.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Between when she crashed the car and showed up on the guys porch (~3 hours) no one knows where she was. 19 years old, smoking dope (traces in her system) and above a .08 BAC) the owner shouldn't be arrested. She was up to no good and clearly screwing up her life either way.

Quoted for retard. Whatcutalkingboutwillis. Just what this place needed... another altroll.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
He's already bumped half a dozen older threads about guns or politics. I'm going with RBM.

Could be... could be. IMHO though... if you put the top 25 most esteemed conservative and/or libertarian posters from this forum in one room for dinner there would only end up being about 10 people sitting down.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,981
8,025
136
Wafer told police at his home immediately after the shooting that he opened the main front door and the gun went off accidentally shooting through the closed and locked screen door.

I look forward to finding out if that statement remains true.

This is a case where right and wrong hang on a razor's edge depending on the exact details of what happened.
 

Geosurface

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2012
5,773
4
0
Could be... could be. IMHO though... if you put the top 25 most esteemed conservative and/or libertarian posters from this forum in one room for dinner there would only end up being about 10 people sitting down.

Admittedly this whole "everyone I disagree with is an alt" attitude is pervasive on this entire forum, but you seem to have a particularly strong fixation on this idea.

Can you explain how you came to be convinced of this? And how it got to be a fairly common accusation here?

I've seen a lot of people make such accusations and be proven wrong later. I immediately realized it was a frequently wrong, knee jerk thing when I registered here and got such accusations including from you.

It's amusing to me how often I've been accused of misrepresenting myself or my opinions here, given that I have literally never done so once.

Can't we just stick to "I disagree with your view and here's why you're wrong" instead of "you're an alt and you don't actually believe what you're saying and you're a racist and a sociopath and a witch!!!"